BoneDog Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2...15875-21024305/ Good work here by Israeli professor at Oxford. Former soldier in Israeli army.
Saladin Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 I like it! George Galloway vs the US Senate is a classic watch. The mans solid as a rock (people please don't post a picture of him in that pink thing on Celeb BB!). I've never seen anyone talk in the Senate like that before, he batters em. Oh god..Celeb BB was painful to watch On the show at the moment...i like his take on the Big Bang theory, but let's leave that for another debate.
BoneDog Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Yes he's battered a few blokes tonight who've been saying he's stupid to have faith. He makes very good points and puts it across very well. He's givin Gary a hammerin right now!
Saladin Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Yes he's battered a few blokes tonight who've been saying he's stupid to have faith. He makes very good points and puts it across very well. He's givin Gary a hammerin right now! Poor Gary.
BoneDog Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Poor Gary. Can't believe what that guy said just. His very first words about how he can't understand why people get so upset about a few dead Palestinians. Disgrace.
Saladin Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Can't believe what that guy said just. His very first words. Disgrace Complete idiot.
Saladin Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2...15875-21024305/Good work here by Israeli professor at Oxford. Former soldier in Israeli army. That was a good read. "It was not Hamas but the IDF that broke the ceasefire. It did so by a raid into Gaza on November 4 that killed six Hamas men. Israel's objective is not just the defence of its population but the eventual overthrow of the Hamas government in Gaza. And far from taking care to spare civilians, Israel is guilty of indiscriminate bombing and of a three-year blockade that has brought the inhabitants of Gaza to the brink of catastrophe." .....And this is coming from an ex Israeli soldier.
BoneDog Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 Does Galloway ever lose an arguement? The man's a fact machine. It's unbelievable how much the guy knows about history. Top radio show.
Thracian Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 Just like you've got a Christian standpoint at heart.How would you think someone would look at the current situation if they had no affiliations to any of the religions? They would take one look at the dead, dying and injured and condemn both the leaders of Israel and the leaders of Hamas whose combined intransigence, self-interest and untrustworthiness has brought the situation about. Events like these make me wish there was a World arbitration panel with clout. Unfortunately the concept of wise and effective world arbitration is wishful thinking but an honest broker is needed and one whose decision is accepted, respected and enforceable. And how difficult is that going to be when the problem concerns conflicting entities who, at least from afar, both seem unwilling to contemplate the possibility that they might be wrong or are so immovable in their views that a solution is impossible. Unfortunately too, the situation isn't just about Palestine alone but also about the wider aims of various interested parties. Even reading the seemingly revealing account of the Israeli soldier I still cannot understand why Hamas kept pointedly provoking Israel with their missiles in the full and considered knowledge of the likely consequences. In doing so they have directly contributed to hundreds of totally unnecessary deaths. Why do that unless it was calculated to provoke a response?
Mickyblueeyes Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 They would take one look at the dead, dying and injured and condemn both the leaders of Israel and the leaders of Hamas whose combined intransigence, self-interest and untrustworthiness has brought the situation about. Events like these make me wish there was a World arbitration panel with clout. Unfortunately the concept of wise and effective world arbitration is wishful thinking but an honest broker is needed and one whose decision is accepted, respected and enforceable. And how difficult is that going to be when the problem concerns conflicting entities who, at least from afar, both seem unwilling to contemplate the possibility that they might be wrong or are so immovable in their views that a solution is impossible. Unfortunately too, the situation isn't just about Palestine alone but also about the wider aims of various interested parties. Even reading the seemingly revealing account of the Israeli soldier I still cannot understand why Hamas kept pointedly provoking Israel with their missiles in the full and considered knowledge of the likely consequences. In doing so they have directly contributed to hundreds of totally unnecessary deaths. Why do that unless it was calculated to provoke a response? That was the question that a lot of people asked Mandela before he was arrested by the Aparthied regime.... The Palestinian people have been pushed back into a wall....something myself and 90% of white british men and women would laugh at if it were to happen here. Lets be honest....they had land taken off them which was decided by parties who had no business deciding it. Every house in the state has suffered some sort of aggrevances due to the struggle. They are now second class citizens in Land which was their ancestors homes. They are, to a large degree, ignored by the western media and the effect the conflict is having on them.....for example the 100 in a house incident reported today...had that been the other way round would it not still be main headlines on all our tv stations?Answer that seriously, one of the most sophisticated armies in the world "forgot" they stuck a 100 people in a "safe house". I've already mentionned how Hamas were ignored as the democratically elected leaders of Palestine....so for the average Palestinian, democracy does not work...what else are they meant to do in order to be heard? This isnt a muslim/jew thing...infact not long ago I had a very nice client who was a Palestinian Christian and guess what....He supported Hamas!his argument was atleast with them at the helm we wont be forgotten.
BoneDog Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 Even reading the seemingly revealing account of the Israeli soldier I still cannot understand why Hamas kept pointedly provoking Israel with their missiles in the full and considered knowledge of the likely consequences. In doing so they have directly contributed to hundreds of totally unnecessary deaths. Why do that unless it was calculated to provoke a response? I think the rockets that are said to come from Hamas are being fired by men who are involved in the battle somehow. All families in Gaza have lost someone in the past 10 years so there will be alot of angry people who will retaliate. I think the Israelis just blame the rockets on Hamas because they and the US want rid of Hamas. They have said so right from the moment Hamas won the election. The Palestinians have been regularly attacked, had their homes bulldozed to make way for settlements etc. non stop for a long time so there will be a continuous supply of men waiting to fight back and this is where I think the rockets are coming from.
jayyd08 Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 i dont see why people are having a go at israel, there only defending themselves
BoneDog Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 They are, to a large degree, ignored by the western media and the effect the conflict is having on them.....for example the 100 in a house incident reported today...had that been the other way round would it not still be main headlines on all our tv stations?Answer that seriously, one of the most sophisticated armies in the world "forgot" they stuck a 100 people in a "safe house". Good point. If the Palestinians had moved 110 Israelis to a 'safe house' and then bombed it killing 30 of them, It would be on the tele and get talked about for months, maybe years. There would probably be a movie about it by now!
BoneDog Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 i dont see why people are having a go at israel, there only defending themselves I'm gonna answer even though I think you are havin a laugh to wind people up. They are not defending themselves, they have been on the attack for 60 years non-stop. Even when they are not invading they are still attacking 20 or 30 times a year from helicopters. And every day the soldiers commit crimes against innocent people there when there is supposed to be peace. It's fair enough when soldiers fight battles against other fighters but they do alot more than that
Thracian Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 I think the rockets that are said to come from Hamas are being fired by men who are involved in the battle somehow. All families in Gaza have lost someone in the past 10 years so there will be alot of angry people who will retaliate. I think the Israelis just blame the rockets on Hamas because they and the US want rid of Hamas. They have said so right from the moment Hamas won the election. The Palestinians have been regularly attacked, had their homes bulldozed to make way for settlements etc. non stop for a long time so there will be a continuous supply of men waiting to fight back and this is where I think the rockets are coming from. So you're saying they are not being fired by Hamas? See, again, it is always someone else. You simply won't accept what is beyond dispute. I know all about the excuses you mention but the fact is that Hamas kept provoking a retaliation for their own reasons, irrespective of the consequences to their own people. I see no moral reason for that. Only political reasons.
Ultra Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 It's quite possible that the rockets are being fired by groups other than Hamas. As Israel knows only too well, Gaza is a hard enough place to police at the best of times. The rocket attacks, puny though they are in comparison to the assaults Israel is making in the other direction, should stop. But it's not easy to argue that case when Palestinians in the West Bank, who are not firing rockets, are still being treated like dirt.
stez Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 It's quite possible that the rockets are being fired by groups other than Hamas.As Israel knows only too well, Gaza is a hard enough place to police at the best of times. The rocket attacks, puny though they are in comparison to the assaults Israel is making in the other direction, should stop. But it's not easy to argue that case when Palestinians in the West Bank, who are not firing rockets, are still being treated like dirt. i was amused (in a macabre way) to hear someone from isreal bragging about how they LET the palestinians have some health care and food handouts big of you, i thought.
l444ry Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 Wouldn't it be nice if some of the apologists for these terrorists actually accepted Israel's right to exist. This simplistic argument that Hamas right, Israel wrong is infantile.
Ultra Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 Good point. If the Palestinians had moved 110 Israelis to a 'safe house' and then bombed it killing 30 of them, It would be on the tele and get talked about for months, maybe years. There would probably be a movie about it by now! And folk on here (you know who I mean) would be trotting it out on here for years as an example of "Muslim barbarity"... Needless to say, they've been VERY silent about this atrocity.
Ultra Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 Wouldn't it be nice if some of the apologists for these terroristsIsrael actually accepted IsraelPalestinian children's right to exist. This simplistic argument that Hamas right, Israel wrong is infantile. As is the state of mind which refuses to acknowledge when crimes against humanity are taking place..
l444ry Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 As is the state of mind which refuses to acknowledge when crimes against humanity are taking place.. There you go again, Ultra. Answering a legitimate point with another silly slogan.
davieG Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 There you go again, Ultra. Answering a legitimate point with another silly slogan. He's a politician that's all they can deal with.
Daggers Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 Those of you electing to support one side over the other are simple-minded fools. If your knowledge of history is that limited that you can't see both sides have been responsible for drawing this situation to its current level then you are an idiot.
Ultra Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 Answer this question - yes or no? Is it legitimate to massacre school children, no matter how young they are, on the grounds they might be "terrorists"? If you even have to pause before giving the answer, you should take a long hard look at yourself.
Ultra Posted 10 January 2009 Posted 10 January 2009 He's a politician that's all they can deal with. How do you stop that sand from getting up your nostrils?
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