Israel

[Daggers]

Answer this question - yes or no?

Is it legitimate to massacre school children, no matter how young they are, on the grounds they might be "terrorists"?

If you even have to pause before giving the answer, you should take a long hard look at yourself.

Answer this - yes or no?

Is it legitimate to use a reductionist approach, to make a situation as simplistic as possible, no matter how historically complex the conflict may be?

If you have to reduce an intractable political situation down to a sound-bite about children, you should take a long hard look at yourself.

[l444ry]

Answer this question - yes or no?

Is it legitimate to massacre school children, no matter how young they are, on the grounds they might be "terrorists"?

If you even have to pause before giving the answer, you should take a long hard look at yourself.

A rather holier than thou response, Ultra.

Of course it isn't right to "massacreschool childen". But is it right that rockets should be fired indiscriminately into centres of population either?

There are two sides to this. Hamas are virtually friendless in the Arab world. If you cannot see that it is they who have escalated this terrible situation then I suggest blinker removal may be the order of the day.

[Hullfox]

Answer this question - yes or no?

Is it legitimate to massacre school children, no matter how young they are, on the grounds they might be "terrorists"?

If you even have to pause before giving the answer, you should take a long hard look at yourself.

The answer is clearly no, even somebody like me who is not literate can see that but your use of the word massacre implies that it was intended to happen. I'm not convinced that it was.

Answer this question - yes or no?

Is it legitimate to indoctrinate school children to hate a neighbouring state to the extent that generation after generation will deny it's right to existence?

[davieG]

Answer this - yes or no?

Is it legitimate to use a reductionist approach, to make a situation as simplistic as possible, no matter how historically complex the conflict may be?

If you have to reduce an intractable political situation down to a sound-bite about children, you should take a long hard look at yourself.

As I said he's a politician - they can't help themselves

[Daggers]

As I said he's a politician - they can't help themselves

Politicians and religious nuts - the world would be ace without them.

[davieG]

Politicians and religious nuts - the world would be ace without them.

Exacerbated by the fact that too many religious nuts see themselves as politicians.

[Zingari]

There is always 2 sides to every discussion whenever events and conflicts such as this occur , and innocent people are invariably the victims

But what should not be forgetten or discounted as a possibility is that one side just maybe totally wrong , (as most people accept was the case of nazi germany)

i'm pretty sure some good arguments were made at the time for justifying its actions .

ps is Ultra really a politician ?

[davieG]

There is always 2 sides to every discussion whenever events and conflicts such as this occur , and innocent people are invariably the victims

But what should not be forgetten or discounted as a possibility is that one side just maybe totally wrong , (as most people accept was the case of nazi germany)

i'm pretty sure some good arguments were made at the time for justifying its actions .

ps is Ultra really a politician ?

Well it could be his brother

[Thracian]

Does Galloway ever lose an arguement? The man's a fact machine. It's unbelievable how much the guy knows about history. Top radio show.

Is that really all that concerns you? In case Galloway has not noticed it takes two to make a war and, as per usual, it is Joe Soap and his family who are in the middle.

If you KNOW that Israel will react to any provocation and you KNOW that women and children will be killed as a result, why the feck would you keep sticking pins in Israel's arse?

There is no reason on earth except for calculated, pre-meditated publicity.

Galloway may have made it his life's passion to read chapter and verse on the history of Israel/Palestine but this war is not being fought in theory or on an orator's rostrum.

I'll stick with Daggers comments above, thanks.

And that fact that sooner or later the protagonists will have to reach a mutually acceptable agreement which both parties show willing to adhere to.

The alternative, the only alternative that I can see, is more dead, more maimed, more starving and more despair. Is there any chance I'm getting through?

When two sides each BELIEVE they are right you will NOT win the argument at the expense of the other. Just like the British and the IRA there has to be an acceptable, workable, negotiated accord.

And it really doesn't help that happen when various opportunists keep shouting "left side good, right side bad".

Past history can be a curse. Someone has to see the wisdom of making a new start. Not because history should be denied. But because history is like a wound that simply reopens and festers whenever you touch it. If it heals at all it heals very slowly and, to my mind, the solution to political problems usually lies in looking forwards rather than backwards.

[Zingari]

Exacerbated by the fact that too many religious nuts see themselves as politicians.

politicians with a hotline to god are pretty scary too

[Ultra]

Does Galloway ever lose an arguement?

Obviously he does, otherwise he'd still be in the Labour Party and not be forced to moonlight for a p!sspoor radio station like Talksport.

The man's a fact machine. It's unbelievable how much the guy knows about history. Top radio show.

He is married to a Palestinian, so it's not as if he's taking a disinterested view on this.

[AoWW]

Answer this question - yes or no?

Is it legitimate to massacre school children, no matter how young they are, on the grounds they might be "terrorists"?

If you even have to pause before giving the answer, you should take a long hard look at yourself.

I'm tempted on a daily basis.

[Guest Bilo]

Does Galloway ever lose an arguement? The man's a fact machine. It's unbelievable how much the guy knows about history. Top radio show.

Two words El Empty. Christopher Hitchens.

Galloway is a demagogue and nothing more. Also as Ultra rightly says, if he never lost an argument he'd still be in the Labour Party and not forced to work for crap radio shows on Talksport.

[BoneDog]

So you're saying they are not being fired by Hamas?

See, again, it is always someone else. You simply won't accept what is beyond dispute.

I know all about the excuses you mention but the fact is that Hamas kept provoking a retaliation for their own reasons, irrespective of the consequences to their own people.

I see no moral reason for that. Only political reasons.

I am saying that some Hamas supporters are firing them. And probably other random people who have been affected by the war over the past years. If I saw a member of my family blown up I would probably do something stupid too whatever side I was on.

I don't support any regime that tries to whip up violence but can see how the population would take it upon themselves to fight.

Those rockets are very easy to make. You don't have to order them from weapon manufacturers. They are steel pipes with fertilizer welded together. Theres videos on youtube of the people making them and firing them.

There are people all over the UK who have grenades and all sorts of other weapons, so if we were being attacked we would have alot of people attacking the enemy and it would be very hard for the government to stop. All sorts of locals would be fighting

[BoneDog]

Wouldn't it be nice if some of the apologists for these terrorists actually accepted Israel's right to exist. This simplistic argument that Hamas right, Israel wrong is infantile.

I accept Israels right to exist. If I was living there in 1948 I would of been opposed though. What I don't accept is how the Palestinians have been treated year after year even in 'peace time'.

[BoneDog]

Of course it isn't right to "massacreschool childen". But is it right that rockets should be fired indiscriminately into centres of population either?

No it isn't right that rockets be fired indiscriminately into centres of population. But unfortunately the IDF have been doing it for 60 years from helicopters, ships, jets and tanks (shells). It is also wrong for Palestinians to do it but the damage they have caused is minimal in comparison.

There are two sides to this. Hamas are virtually friendless in the Arab world. If you cannot see that it is they who have escalated this terrible situation then I suggest blinker removal may be the order of the day.

Hamas are not virtually friendless in the Arab world. Most arabs would love to help them. Hamas are friendless in the world of Arab governments like Egypt and so on. It is the governments that decide not to help, not the populations who protest at their leaders lack of action every day. The governments are only kept in power with the help of US military aid so they are not going to be stupid and risk the wrath of their US/Israeli friends in power. If it was up to the people of surrounding countries then Israel would not be able to get away with what it does

[BoneDog]

Is that really all that concerns you? In case Galloway has not noticed it takes two to make a war and, as per usual, it is Joe Soap and his family who are in the middle.

If you KNOW that Israel will react to any provocation and you KNOW that women and children will be killed as a result, why the feck would you keep sticking pins in Israel's arse?

There is no reason on earth except for calculated, pre-meditated publicity.

Galloway may have made it his life's passion to read chapter and verse on the history of Israel/Palestine but this war is not being fought in theory or on an orator's rostrum.

Np it's not all that concerns me. Was just commenting on something that was on radio at the time.

And Galloway doesn't just know all about that conflict. He knows about most of history in the past 200 years and more. People always try to slip him up and he ruins them with cold hard facts.

[Daggers]

And Galloway doesn't just know all about that conflict. He knows about most of history in the past 200 years and more.

[BoneDog]

Obviously he does, otherwise he'd still be in the Labour Party and not be forced to moonlight for a p!sspoor radio station like Talksport.

The station might be poor but his show isn't.

And I think you're mistaken as to why he left the labour party. He didn't lose an arguement. He was thrown out of the party for his comments on the Iraq war. He was expelled because he didn't tow the line and support lies.

[BoneDog]

Two words El Empty. Christopher Hitchens.

Galloway is a demagogue and nothing more. Also as Ultra rightly says, if he never lost an argument he'd still be in the Labour Party and not forced to work for crap radio shows on Talksport.

Chris Hitchins? Are you mad. That says it all. You probably read the Daily Mail too. And watch Fox News

[BoneDog]

What enlightening radio shows do Ultra and Bilos listen to then if you're willing to share?

[soley118]

Its an endless war , never going to stop none of them can stick to a treaty or any agreement that they throw at each other

[BoneDog]

You are right but it will end one day because there will be nothing left

[Dr The Singh]

That applies to people on both sides of the argument - many see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe and cherry pick the bits that support their standpoint whilst ignoring those that go against what they believe.

ABSOLUTELY dg, all this self 'tapping each other on the back' and single lens view is making me

I believe some people on here are passionate about this debate but some parallels and comparison are just ridiculious. Maybe I should bring the 'Islamic' brutualities, genocidal attacks on the people of the indus valley OR on the other hand bring about the British Empiracal abuse on those people.

Either way non of it matters, this problem is unique BUT I will say something, atleast the British has provided a home, a life, treated like there equals to those it's done bad. What have those Islamic people done, feck all, infact my kin work in many Islamic nations, get treated like dirt, pay non islamic taxes and get treated like shit by the courts, basically are second class citizens. Name me one Islamic nation where my kin are treated as an equal!!!

[Dr The Singh]

I think the rockets that are said to come from Hamas are being fired by men who are involved in the battle somehow. All families in Gaza have lost someone in the past 10 years so there will be alot of angry people who will retaliate.

I think the Israelis just blame the rockets on Hamas because they and the US want rid of Hamas. They have said so right from the moment Hamas won the election.

The Palestinians have been regularly attacked, had their homes bulldozed to make way for settlements etc. non stop for a long time so there will be a continuous supply of men waiting to fight back and this is where I think the rockets are coming from.

Both sides have alot of grievance, yet it's the Hamas envoys that are saying that they are refusing to stop rocketting. Infact rocketting has increased since the security council resolution, so it would be stupid to say Hamas are not doing the rocketting!!!

Israel has also uped the anti, and unfortunately there's far more 'colateral damage'. I feel what Israel is doing will not be forgetten by the Palestinians for many generations. the chances for peace look lost and burried!