Dr The Singh Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Haha I like it! I think they were written by men but revealed by the Unseen! And later changed by man. But we'll never know who's right GUYS CAN WE PLEASE NOT TURN IT INTO A RELIGIOUS DEBATE< UNLESS IT@S REALLY RELEVANT.
Alexikokopops Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 You're lucky I wasn't online in the height of this religious debating. Luckily it seems to have died down.
Alexikokopops Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 I've had enough of your lip Zingari! If I had any powers outside of General Chat you'd be out of here SO FAST
Trav Le Bleu Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Alex IS the messiah! And I should know... I've followed a few (Frank McLintock, Jock Wallace, Gordon Milne, Bryan Hamilton, David Pleat... etc)
Guest Bilo Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Alex IS the messiah!And I should know... I've followed a few (Frank McLintock, Jock Wallace, Gordon Milne, Bryan Hamilton, David Pleat... etc) There was no Messiah here last season. There was a mess all right but no messiah!
Saladin Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Livening up the thread is one thing but having no idea about the subject in matter is another! Speak for yourself. This is supposed to be about free speech, i have my views which i think are correct and you have yours, this is what makes a debate. I think what Israel is doing now is Genocide, this is my view, not yours from what i can understand from your threads and i respect this, as you should to. Respect works both ways.
breadandcheese Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/persona...not-Israel.html I think this opinion piece sums up my views on this conflict. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with the actions Israel is taking, I do agree with its aims against Hamas.
Webbo Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Alex IS the messiah!And I should know... I've followed a few (Frank McLintock, Jock Wallace, Gordon Milne, Bryan Hamilton, David Pleat... etc) He's not the Mesiah, he's just a naughty boy.
Lineker's Left Foot Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 It's pretty clear who are the terrorists here - and it's not the Palestinians.Israel, indulged and bankrolled by its American sugar daddies, has been allowed to flout international law for far too long. The one blessing is that it's not attacking Iran - a country which has the means to launch a more powerful response. But it's time for Britain and Europe to demand a ceasefire - and impose sanctions on Israel if it refuses to comply. Just about pretty much agree with you there; but Hamas are hardly going about it 'the right way' to gain what they require
Ultra Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Promise Seriously though I started the thread to encourage debate on the matter and tbf it's been a pretty good one. You what??? A gung-ho approval of genocide is a strange way of doing this.
Saladin Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 This song pretty much sums things up for me. Quite a catchy track too.
Ultra Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Perhaps you could furnish me with figures for Christians living at peace in Muslim countries.I'd have some sympathy if Palestine was the only source of conflict with Muslims. But it's not. Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, India, China, Russia ... is there any end to the places I could mention? Look at the wars started by "Christians" from the UK, US and elsewhere and you'll soon forget any plans to take the moral high ground with Muslims or anyone else. And doesn't it bother you that Muslims seem to be forever talking about killing or destroying someone or something on some pretext or another? Muslim literature now seems full of it yet, in the beginning, the Muslim message seemed to be one of peace and goodwill. Some of us have images of Islam which are shaped by working and living alongside people from that faith. The great majority are no more predisposed towards destruction or violence than anybody else. Whatever Bin Laden may claim, he does NOT represent anything other than a minuscule minority of Muslims, even though it may suit the purposes of the US and Israel to pretend that he does. I have read chapter and verse about Muslim fundamentalist aims. I've done the same about white/Christian supremacist ones. Historically these have been far more influential, and sadly continue to be so, otherwise we wouldn't be at war in Iraq or Afghanistan. I could quite happily work out a worldwide deal to sort this. A deal that would still allow for mutual trading, mutual respect and mutual co-operation where it benefitted all parties. But I bet, when push came to shove, the Muslims wouldn't accept it. Cos you know and I know it wouldn't fit in with the broad aims of Muslim philosophy. Why not? Those aims don't differ in any great respect from other mass religions. The overwhelming majority of Muslims believe in the phrase "live and let live". It's clear that it's certain groups who claim adherence to other faiths who are responsible for the conflict continuing. And, sooner or later those aims will inflame the most hideous conflict despite the cameo set-to in Palestine, utterly shameful as it is to all who've inflamed it, being an ongoing insult to the concept of God for either Christian or Muslim. The concept of an apocalyptic "end of days" confrontation is not unique to one side or the other, as has been documented by others in this discussion. Photographs of dead children affect me deeply to the extent that they provide the most compelling evidence in favour of ending all warfare and burning every weapon in existence. The legacy of hatred those deaths leave will never die, just as the Jews will never forget their own persecution. But the existence of relative peace in Western Europe since 1945, despite the apparently incessant wars in the region for centuries prior to that time, indicates that people, and nations, have the capability to move on and co-exist peacefully. Muslims fundamentalists would kill, destroy and endanger even their own for their long term aims as they have shown many times. And in that respect they are no different from other religious zealots who maintain a malign influence in this conflict. They want no negotiated settlement in Palestine as is well documented. There are plenty on the other side who don't want one either, but have a far greater capacity to inflict death and destruction in the meantme. But unfortunately for those who would use the dead children image as a stick to beat the Israelis, the Jews know all about suffering. Indeed they do - and that's why a lot of Jews want nothing to do with Zionism. In fact some of them (Noam Chomsky being a prime example) have been among Israel's strongest critics. A few hours walking around Auschwitz and Birkenau or reading about it would show you that Jews have lost enough women, children and infants to last for centuries so will never again be deterred from fighting their cause, justified or not. The Holocaust of the last century was allowed to happen through other nations' determination to pursue policies of appeasement and ignorance. Those factors are sadly also all too apparent here.
Saladin Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Look at the wars started by "Christians" from the UK, US and elsewhere and you'll soon forget any plans to take the moral high ground with Muslims or anyone else.Some of us have images of Islam which are shaped by working and living alongside people from that faith. The great majority are no more predisposed towards destruction or violence than anybody else. Whatever Bin Laden may claim, he does NOT represent anything other than a minuscule minority of Muslims, even though it may suit the purposes of the US and Israel to pretend that he does. I've done the same about white/Christian supremacist ones. Historically these have been far more influential, and sadly continue to be so, otherwise we wouldn't be at war in Iraq or Afghanistan. Why not? Those aims don't differ in any great respect from other mass religions. The overwhelming majority of Muslims believe in the phrase "live and let live". It's clear that it's certain groups who claim adherence to other faiths who are responsible for the conflict continuing. The concept of an apocalyptic "end of days" confrontation is not unique to one side or the other, as has been documented by others in this discussion. But the existence of relative peace in Western Europe since 1945, despite the apparently incessant wars in the region for centuries prior to that time, indicates that people, and nations, have the capability to move on and co-exist peacefully. And in that respect they are no different from other religious zealots who maintain a malign influence in this conflict. There are plenty on the other side who don't want one either, but have a far greater capacity to inflict death and destruction in the meantme. Indeed they do - and that's why a lot of Jews want nothing to do with Zionism. In fact some of them (Noam Chomsky being a prime example) have been among Israel's strongest critics. The Holocaust of the last century was allowed to happen through other nations' determination to pursue policies of appeasement and ignorance. Those factors are sadly also all too apparent here. People tend to be selective in what they read up on.
davieG Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 People tend to be selective in what they read up on. That applies to people on both sides of the argument - many see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe and cherry pick the bits that support their standpoint whilst ignoring those that go against what they believe.
Thracian Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Look at the wars started by "Christians" from the UK, US and elsewhere and you'll soon forget any plans to take the moral high ground with Muslims or anyone else.=== I don't remember defending any recent wars. ==== Some of us have images of Islam which are shaped by working and living alongside people from that faith. The great majority are no more predisposed towards destruction or violence than anybody else. ==== I have no idea what is in the minds of Muslims generally. ===== Whatever Bin Laden may claim, he does NOT represent anything other than a minuscule minority of Muslims, even though it may suit the purposes of the US and Israel to pretend that he does. ===== I wouldn't be surprised if Bin Laden is dead. If not then he would appear to be a master tactician. And a man who's vast wealth has bought him many advantages that will only increase the influence of either himself or his representatives. ====== I've done the same about white/Christian supremacist ones. Historically these have been far more influential, and sadly continue to be so, otherwise we wouldn't be at war in Iraq or Afghanistan. ==== I have roundly condemned the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have no right to be there and it is your Party which got us there under false pretences and keeps us there, even though I happily acknowledge your personal opposition. ======= Why not? Those aims don't differ in any great respect from other mass religions. The overwhelming majority of Muslims believe in the phrase "live and let live". It's clear that it's certain groups who claim adherence to other faiths who are responsible for the conflict continuing. ===== It is extraordinary how many people seem to act on behalf of Muslims while Muslims deny all reponsibility for them. ========= The concept of an apocalyptic "end of days" confrontation is not unique to one side or the other, as has been documented by others in this discussion. ============ It is the apparent inevitability of eventual showdown that concerns me now, not what has happened in the past. =============== But the existence of relative peace in Western Europe since 1945, despite the apparently incessant wars in the region for centuries prior to that time, indicates that people, and nations, have the capability to move on and co-exist peacefully. ============ Relative yes. But it wasn't very peaceful or very pleasant in the former Yugoslavia a few years ago. Or in Georgia. Or Northern Ireland. Man will never live in peace while religion exists and while ambitious people or politicians are prepared to manipulate situations for their own ends ============= And in that respect they are no different from other religious zealots who maintain a malign influence in this conflict. ========= That is no comfort. Or excuse. I have no time for religious zealots of any kind. ============== There are plenty on the other side who don't want one either, but have a far greater capacity to inflict death and destruction in the meantme. ======== All the more reason for Hamas to stop deliberately inflaming the situation in pursuit of their own ends but with total disregard for the Palestinian people. Affecting change doesn't require it anyway. =============== Indeed they do - and that's why a lot of Jews want nothing to do with Zionism. In fact some of them (Noam Chomsky being a prime example) have been among Israel's strongest critics. ========== You will always find critics and advocates of Zionism but the solutions in Palestine need to be negotiated and they need to be respected. ================================== The Holocaust of the last century was allowed to happen through other nations' determination to pursue policies of appeasement and ignorance. Those factors are sadly also all too apparent here. ================= That is a very broad and simplistic statement. And far too complex for a thread about Palestine. ============================== You seem to have a very one-side take on this. Maybe we should each have read the other's books!
Thracian Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 People tend to be selective in what they read up on. Don't suppose you'd have a vested interest in the Muslim cause would you?
Mickyblueeyes Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Don't suppose you'd have a vested interest in the Muslim cause would you? Just like you may have one in the Christian one? I dont have any affiliation with either religion but what is right is right! Our government continually ignored the views of the IRA until a point it could no longer possible to do so. In this situation they were proved wrong......Maybe just maybe their blind support for the Israeli cause could also be wrong. You would think that especially after the IRA scenario they would've learnt to listen instead of dismissing the views of the "outsider". Today its being reported that Obama may sit down and discuss the terms with Hamas...this has to be positive move.
BoneDog Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Today its being reported that Obama may sit down and discuss the terms with Hamas...this has to be positive move. Yes it would be a positive move but I don't think we'll ever get there. They'll talk about it but I think something big will happen soon to escalate the situation and end all hopes of peace. Muslims will get the blame of course. And the US and Israel will say 'we wanted peace'.
Thracian Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 "Just like you may have one in the Christian one?" ===== And there is a typical response. No examination of the question raised, just the get-out of turning the same question in the other direction. Well that's no problem cos I can answer with a clear conscience.... ==== Just because I try to follow Christian values don't for one instance think that I carry any flag for the Christian Church or for Christian zealots because I don't. No-one controls my mind except me. Nor do I in any way identify with Christian clergy because in many cases Christian ideals have been diluted and devalued over the years and by people who are not fit to represent the faith or strong enough to defend the wisdom of The Commandments. As for perhaps thinkiing I'd stand the Jewish corner I just ask you to accept my word that there's no chance. I didn't agree with any part of their treatment by the Germans who showed themselves to be utterly beyond contempt but that's as far as my sympathy stretches. From day one I condemned the Iraq War and the Afghan War, I condemned Bush's ridiculous response to the Twin Towers and I condemned both sides and the outside manipulators of the situation in Palestine. All four chapters are, in essence, a disgrace to human kind. I don't even believe it right that people should be brainwashed or coerced into any religion at all. I fly no flag for religion as such, just for a set of values which, if properly applied, would make for a positive, co-operative and caring world. I have only once taken my sons into a Church and that was for my father's funeral. They don't need a church or the sometimes flawed advice of clergymen to live decent lives. I would hope they have strong, fair, wise and considerate minds of their own. And, with any luck cleverer ones than mine.
Saladin Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Don't suppose you'd have a vested interest in the Muslim cause would you? Just like you've got a Christian standpoint at heart. How would you think someone would look at the current situation if they had no affiliations to any of the religions?
BoneDog Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 I would like to comment on the above (Thracian) some good points, but am worried about alexikokopops's reaction so I will not bother! Don't want this thread to get shut down.
BoneDog Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Saladin, do you listen to George Galloway on talksport? He's on now, very good show.
Saladin Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Saladin, do you listen to George Galloway on talksport? He's on now, very good show. Thanks for that, listening now.. You should take a look at this video, always makes me laugh.
BoneDog Posted 9 January 2009 Posted 9 January 2009 Thanks for that, listening now..You should take a look at this video, always makes me laugh. I like it! George Galloway vs the US Senate is a classic watch. The mans solid as a rock (people please don't post a picture of him in that pink thing on Celeb BB!). I've never seen anyone talk in the Senate like that before, he batters em.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.