Mandy's solution for the Brits - sod off!

[Thracian]

So the loathesome and previously disgraced Mandelson - so appropriately known as a Lord in Labour Britain where five of his kind are now understood to be under scrutiny over allegations of corruption - has advice for Briitsh workers who can't find a job ....

Basically he suggests they piss off.

The supposedly right-honourable gentleman says British workers should go job searching in mainland Europe instead of complaining about the competition.

You read it here first of course but on a day when a British national newspaper publicly declares that "Our people are being discriminated against" the safely employed Mandelson clearly has eyes on the voters.

If more Brits disappear abroad and more immigrants come in, the Labour Party will have their idea of utopia - a whole nation full of people who "owe them one" and no-one left who'd rather "give them one".

Smug man Mandelson ignores the fact that British workers' wives and families live here, their kids are at school here, they might not want to leave their home country, they might not be able to sell their home and wages abroad might not pay a British morgage...

Not just that but he ignores the fact that they are unlikely to speak foreign languages because we're an island and native Brits are only rarely multi-lingual compared to countries in mainland Europe which have multi-national borders and whose populations are quite normally introduced to various languages from an early age.

I've mentioned the crap that's talked about free movement within Europe anyway. There are all sorts of problems which often hinder British families trying to move, live and work elsewhere in Europe.

And, of course, if the already established British population was looked after properly in the first place and the UK wasn't an open door to seemingly endless and sometimes illegal immigration which makes added demand for the jobs available, there wouldn't be any great need for the Brits to move out in the first place.

"Your talking crap" the lefties screamed when I said the touch paper was close to the flame and that the British were now fed up with being victimised, discriminated against and generally overlooked in the new order.

Well looking at all the strike action going on today listening to calls for a boycott of Total sites, and learning that the police and army are on alert all over the country, I don't think anyone would doubt my words today on the subject now.

Even former cabinet minister Peter Hain was minded to say: We should stop gold-plating EU regulations and stand up for the British people. That is why I understand the anger over job losses".

Now that's a collectors item...a senior Labour politician advocating standing up for the British people. Whatever next?

Pity no-one else in the Party seems to listen to him.

Mandelson cites the need not to return to protectionism. But that's where the US will be heading you can bet. And why not?. I've never been sure the UK is suited to the EU anyway but if you get a youngster being bullied in the school yard you don't say to him, look after yourself, son, or pay the consequences. You try to protect the kid.

If people are physically or mentally handicapped, if they don't have anywhere to live, if they are addicted to various drugs, we, as a society try or supposedly try, to protect them and so we should if they rightly live here and are entitled to the benefits of our system.

So why not with jobs? And if Europe won't help let's get out of Europe. The jobs fight is not a level playing field anyway. Many consequences of being inEurope have been forced on us not by the people - who have often expressed their view of the way Europe is run and the powers it wants to assume - but by the politicians. We well know why that might be, from recent events, and I very much doubt it's for the good of the country.

:D PS: After all his other clangers Gordon Brown today admitted he had "failed" over the transport system which has ground to a halt completely in London and has been pretty grim elsewhere too after the sort of snowfall they cope with on a daily basis in many countries.

Hundreds of schools are closed all over the country. Hell if the UK was Switzerland we'd be lucky to get any education at all.

[hairy]

What of the thousands of Brits living and working in France, Spain, Greece etc should they be sent home? If we leave Europe then they will not be able to work there anymore. I am sure their numbers must be greater than Europeans working here.

[Hullfox]

Do you know what, I can't even be bothered to start to answer.

[Master Fox]

Britain is overrated

[Thracian]

What of the thousands of Brits living and working in France, Spain, Greece etc should they be sent home? If we leave Europe then they will not be able to work there anymore. I am sure their numbers must be greater than Europeans working here.

Most of those people were working in those countries long before the Credit Crunch bit and whole industries started imploding.

And I have no idea about the mood of places like Spain or France and whether their native workforce is or feels victimised and disregarded as so many in our country do.

I would doubt it. In fact I'd find it hard to imagine anywhere where the discrimation against native whites could be more blatant or pronounced than it is here.

Hell, one nurse is facing being potentially sacked at this time for offering to pray for a sick patient. A white Christian nurse of course because any other nurse and the whole incident would have been treated with the utmost discretion and with a few words explaining that offering to pray for sick people wasn't rally the done thing.

I've been led to believe there's a desperate shortage of nurses. It's one of the reasons we recruit so many from distant lands where they are much needed by their own populations.

So to sugest that any nurse should face the possibility of being sacked for offering the kindness of a prayer to a sick patient is beyond belief and I'd say that with equal venom if the nurse were black, white, cappuccino, yellow or of any religious persuasion on earth.

My point about protecting British workers has nothing to do with the broad merits or otherwise of people working abroad. I did it myself for several years.

It is to do with the situation today and the huge numbers being made jobless because of factors that, while they may be global, are also greatly to do with things our own government have done and not done.

I've warned for months that the situation needed tackling and that the anti-English discrimation in the chase for jobs has to stop. But it's clear that it won't and equally Mandelson doesn't give a shit what the native workforce does about it.

[James.]

Just to entertain your little rant what EXACTLY did Mandelson say? I don't mean what do you think he said but his actual words. I can't find a quote which comes particularly close to your interpretation.

[Koke]

Thracian, answer me this please.

What/Who is British? People who were born here? People whos parents were born here? People who came here 10 years ago and holds a British passport?

Am I British for being born here? But I'm not "native white" though? Is my mum British? She was born in Kuwait but has contributed to this country for decades?

I'm confused. Please help me and explain.

[hairy]

And I have no idea about the mood of places like Spain or France and whether their native workforce is or feels victimised and disregarded as so many in our country do.

They dont like it very much. Blamed the Brits for rising house prices, high local unemployment and stretching their health services. Surely you have heard of Le Pen, with his strong hold in the south because of all the Brits?

[Thracian]

Thracian, answer me this please.

What/Who is British? People who were born here? People whos parents were born here? People who came here 10 years ago and holds a British passport?

Am I British for being born here? But I'm not "native white" though? Is my mum British? She was born in Kuwait but has contributed to this country for decades?

I'm confused. Please help me and explain.

Colour doesn't come into it. I've mentioned "native whites" for the simple reason that they are the ones habitually discriminated against by this government rather than native blacks/asians/etc.

Virtually all I have to say has nothing to do with non-white people living and working in the UK legiitimately because, while I do see them losing jobs and being extremely worried about it, I don't see them having to leap special barriers erected to stop them getting an alternative job.

I'm actually as keen to see the jobs of or for non-white residents of the UK protected or provided as much as the whites but passionately believe the current discrimination against whites to be appalling and the source of massive discontent as doubtless you might feel if you applied, say, to become a train driver and were told you wouldn't be considered because the company was only employing people of Chinese descent.

Anyway, it all matters not. The nation is a mess and, as usual, I won't be voting for anyone until someone emerges who will finally lead us with passion, understanding and inspiration. Someone who will serve all its people - instead of just the favoured flavours of the time - first, last and everything in between.

Otherwise, the following should help.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishc...ishcitizenship/

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishc...p/bornoverseas/

[Hullfox]

Thracian, answer me this please.

What/Who is British? People who were born here? People whos parents were born here? People who came here 10 years ago and holds a British passport?

Am I British for being born here? But I'm not "native white" though? Is my mum British? She was born in Kuwait but has contributed to this country for decades?

I'm confused. Please help me and explain.

You can't be English, you're far too tall.

Dutch, thats what you are.

[Jon the Hat]

So what we are saying is we are quite happy to take the flexibility and benefits of being engaged with the EU and the rest of the world when times are good? Quite happy to prop up our health system with people trained at other countries expense? Quite happy to enjoy the benefits of many goods being cheaper than ever? Quite happy to work for companies who may not locate in the UK if it weren't for our EU membership? Quite happy to not have to do unskilled jobs becuase we have the excuse that someone else is willing to work for less?

But when things start to look tough, we close the doors and look after "our own"? Is that it? In that case the UK is even worse, even more hypocritical than I thought. Particularly as in fact the Oil industry is probably the best example of one in which we get far more wealth coming in to the economy from British expats working overseas than we lose from these or any other group of EU workers coming to work in the UK.

There is nothing we could do more stupidly misguided right now than to take the route of protectionism. It is a short term fix which will only harm the economy in the long run.

[James.]

So what we are saying is we are quite happy to take the flexibility and benefits of being engaged with the EU and the rest of the world when times are good? Quite happy to prop up our health system with people trained at other countries expense? Quite happy to enjoy the benefits of many goods being cheaper than ever? Quite happy to work for companies who may not locate in the UK if it weren't for our EU membership? Quite happy to not have to do unskilled jobs becuase we have the excuse that someone else is willing to work for less?

But when things start to look tough, we close the doors and look after "our own"? Is that it? In that case the UK is even worse, even more hypocritical than I thought. Particularly as in fact the Oil industry is probably the best example of one in which we get far more wealth coming in to the economy from British expats working overseas than we lose from these or any other group of EU workers coming to work in the UK.

There is nothing we could do more stupidly misguided right now than to take the route of protectionism. It is a short term fix which will only harm the economy in the long run.

Summary of Thracian's next post: "Yeah but err British jobs for sodding British people!".

Anyway I still can't find what Mandelson ACTUALLY said. The words that inspired this thread in the first place. Anyone?

[Master Fox]

My girlfriend needs a job, and some British **** better make way

[Thracian]

So what we are saying is we are quite happy to take the flexibility and benefits of being engaged with the EU and the rest of the world when times are good? Quite happy to prop up our health system with people trained at other countries expense? Quite happy to enjoy the benefits of many goods being cheaper than ever? Quite happy to work for companies who may not locate in the UK if it weren't for our EU membership? Quite happy to not have to do unskilled jobs becuase we have the excuse that someone else is willing to work for less?

But when things start to look tough, we close the doors and look after "our own"? Is that it? In that case the UK is even worse, even more hypocritical than I thought. Particularly as in fact the Oil industry is probably the best example of one in which we get far more wealth coming in to the economy from British expats working overseas than we lose from these or any other group of EU workers coming to work in the UK.

There is nothing we could do more stupidly misguided right now than to take the route of protectionism. It is a short term fix which will only harm the economy in the long run.

If only there were lots of oil type industries, eh!

Whatever I might think about protectionism generally there is now 1.92 million unemployed in Britain - the worst scenario for 10 years and the situation is getting rapidly worse with 3m the expected figure a year hence..

That number looks like a very modest transfer fee in itself but think of it this way. Twenty-seven per cent of the population of the Rhonda area of Wales is drawing jobless benefits it's 27% around Merthyr Tydfil, another 25% around Blaunau, Gwent, 23% in Aberavon and 24% in the Cynon Valley area of Wales. Where would they be without socialism and the Welfare State I ask? The figues are disturbing. And this after decades of the Holy Grail that is EU membership.

Are you saying that without the EU, people wouldn't want to trade with the 60million strong customer base that is the UK? I don't think so.

I don't like the idea of relying on the EU for anything and never have done although the whole EU question is a bit of a side issue really and not one I really fancy debating or that I have especially strong views about.

However, referring to your comments I think:

a) That recruiting health staff from other countries is often counter-productive to the welfare of the countries those staff have come from and see no reasons, with all our 60 million population, why we shouldn't train sufficient staff of our own. It would ensure jobs for our graduates.

b) Swamping our country with cheap and sometimes shoddy goods has left whole swathes of our industrial cities with acres of now unused workspace and vastly increased the demands on our welfare system and the despair that goes with endless factory closures and redundancies.

Ideally there would be other jobs created to replace the ones lost, perhaps in new technologies and the development of low-carbon products, but, while some jobs are coming onstream, it's nowhere near enough.

The cheap goods you mention have often been produced by nations paying lower wages and having much less rigid employment/health/safety/insurance/taxation and welfare legislation than we have.

If you want to withdraw the handicaps our industries have to work under they'll likely be a lot more competitive but, if not, if you expect those standards to remain then how can any Government which has set the handicaps stand back and let those businesses founder as a consequence?

To me either the Government sets standards and protects or it stops interferring and lets the entrepreneurs sink or swim by their own efforts but free from such penal encumbrances. I doubt it has the will to do either.

Besides, are the "cheap" goods really cheaper? If a £10,000 car costs £5,000 from Korea but you have to pay the redundant British car worker £5,000 a year in unemployment benefit of some kind what have you gained? And if your resale value after three years is £5,000 for the one and £2,500 for the other the figures, again, don't look so rosy for the import.

c) If our own industries were freed to be competitiive we wouldn't need so many outside industries to locate here anyway. We'd have more of our own like we used to have Doulton, Wedgwood, Worcester and Spode.

We could start by reviving the shipbuilding industry and all the associated jobs that would generate. Fancy having an island nation that hardly builds any ships. If the Chinese are doing it there must be a reason.

d) There's no indignity in unskilled labour to me and from what I've seen there's plenty of people here who would be willing to do it. But not if it's more cost effective to draw benefit. I cannot believe we have a situation where people can be effectively better off staying at home than working.

This country has lost so much of its self-sufficiency in recent years it's no wonder it suddenly seems so vulnerable.

You say "no protectionism".

Okay, I'll stand persuading. How would you make it work? How will we compete?

The effect of no protectionism today is endless factory/business closures and jobs that will likely never return. So what do you propose?

International deals that have as much or more to do with government strategies as commerce, as this one might though I'm seriously not knocking it?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090202/tuk-c...ts-6323e80.html

Or perhaps the development and sale of knowledge & products relating to the new technologies I mentioned?

Where do you say the money will come from to sustain your non-protectionist therefore surely less productive approach? It's been the trend for some time for our country to become more and more of a service provider but surely that can't sustain us.

And every breath we take Gt Britain plc loses money with no obvious way of ever getting it back. So I look forward to being enlightened.

[lookwhaticando]

Mandy's not done too badly by British workers.

He employed Gary Megson when no-one else would.

[Thracian]

Summary of Thracian's next post: "Yeah but err British jobs for sodding British people!".

Anyway I still can't find what Mandelson ACTUALLY said. The words that inspired this thread in the first place. Anyone?

Sorry James. I did mean to get back on this earlier but got preoccupied replying to Jon The Hat.

I threw my reference away and have tried to retrieve it from the web but I think the quote was that Lord Mandelson says "British workers are free to seek work in Europe" thus giving the distinct impression that if they can't get work here they should sod off and work in another country.

Caroline Flint Labour MP was also quoted as backing Mandelson with words along the lines that "open European labour markets allow British workers to take advantage of opportunities elsewhere in the EU."

Anyway I think that's all pretty close although when I read it this morning I did get the impression that some of the most relevant remarks might have been sub-edited out but I don't know.

Whatever, it's a pathetic response and simply not helpful to most British workers and the way various Labour people have reacted there seems little doubt that they don't feel comfortable about the jobs controversy either in light of the industrial action that has followed.

As I said yesterday, the insensitivity is hard to defend and I wouldn't really be the one to defend them anyway.

[Ultra]

The ministers were drawing attention to the opportunities available. I very much doubt their remarks were meant in the way you have spun them.

But the idea of a lover of Belgian beer, and driver of a Czech car, asking what the Europeans have EVER done for us is almost beyond parody.

[Hullfox]

Caroline Flint Labour MP was also quoted as backing Mandelson with words along the lines that "open European labour markets allow British workers to take advantage of opportunities elsewhere in the EU."

I thought she was a tidy bit of totty when she was first elected.

[Webbo]

I thought she was a tidy bit of totty when she was first elected.

Not bad at all.

[Hullfox]

Not bad at all.

Never let it be said that we are not prepared to put aside political differences when the situation dictates that totty needs admiring.

[davieG]

I thought she was a tidy bit of totty when she was first elected.

Yes but if you want a bit of her you've got to get in the queue behind all those foreigners.

[Thracian]

I thought she was a tidy bit of totty when she was first elected.

In that case I'll agree with her! Anything that's plus something on Margaret Beckett.

[Thracian]

The ministers were drawing attention to the opportunities available. I very much doubt their remarks were meant in the way you have spun them.

But the idea of a lover of Belgian beer, and driver of a Czech car, asking what the Europeans have EVER done for us is almost beyond parody.

:D I'll drink to that! I'm gonna try some more at the weekend too.

[Daggers]

I'm really starting to get irked by this non-stop stream of bullshit, bigotted threads.

I hate to say it but I am awfully close to popping Tony onto ignore for a bit - this is just too tedious for words.

[ASH17LCFC]

I'm really starting to get irked by this non-stop stream of bullshit, bigotted threads.

I hate to say it but I am awfully close to popping Tony onto ignore for a bit - this is just too tedious for words.

Aging Hippie Liberal Douche, i'm sorry but you really do wind me up.