EDL (English Defence League)

[FoxyPV]

-1.

[Fosse Boy]

So what would you suggest the Government do to bring back our sense of national identity?

A sense of national identity and pride, as with any sense of cultural identity, has to come from the people and not top down government dictation. Should the government do more to aid this process though? Arguably. Having St. George's Day made into a national holiday would be a start. Sadly I fear any attempt at a genuine non-xenophobic patriotic movement would almost certainly be hijacked by far right racists for their own ends (as may or may not have been the case with the EDL depending on who and what you believe and whether you trust the supposed purity of the group's original motives).

you really are a clown, that behavour is disgusting and sick, no one could defend it. But again the majority of the EDL are getting labelled for the actions of a minority. You cant argue it, 2000 EDL members there and 100/200 involved in trouble

If the EDL were genuinely concerned by the behaviour of those purporting to be members, they should be more outspoken against those committing violent and racist behaviour at their rallies. Until they do I'm afraid I can't budge from my own skepticism of them. At present they make no or little distinction between "extremist Islam" and "Islam", preferring to bracket all Muslims together as potential bombers and threats to our society, which is just outright fucking bigotry.

[Bellend Sebastian]

you really are a clown, that behavour is disgusting and sick, no one could defend it. But again the majority of the EDL are getting labelled for the actions of a minority. You cant argue it, 2000 EDL members there and 100/200 involved in trouble

If ten per cent of their supporters go mental every time, perhaps public protest isn't the ideal medium for getting their message across?

The ten per cent going batshit crazy and smashing up city centres can be quite a distraction you know.

What was it they want again?

[Guest lcfc80]

Not sure how you've plucked this 100/200 figure out of the air but that, if it were real, would equate to 10% of those present.

That is much, much higher than any football club so far as I can see and tells you all you need to know about the kind of people associated with the EDL.

I got the figure from firstly looking at all the videos on the net then reading in todays mercury that around 200 escaped the police supervision. simples. so what you are really saying is only 10% of the EDL are drunken hooligans hell bent on trouble

[Guest lcfc80]

A sense of national identity and pride, as with any sense of cultural identity, has to come from the people and not top down government dictation. Should the government do more to aid this process though? Arguably. Having St. George's Day made into a national holiday would be a start. Sadly I fear any attempt at a genuine non-xenophobic patriotic movement would almost certainly be hijacked by far right racists for their own ends (as may or may not have been the case with the EDL depending on who and what you believe and whether you trust the supposed purity of the group's original motives).

If the EDL were genuinely concerned by the behaviour of those purporting to be members, they should be more outspoken against those committing violent and racist behaviour at their rallies. Until they do I'm afraid I can't budge from my own skepticism of them. At present they make no or little distinction between "extremist Islam" and "Islam", preferring to bracket all Muslims together as potential bombers and threats to our society, which is just outright fucking bigotry.

the leaders were trying to get the minority to behave

[Guest lcfc80]

If ten per cent of their supporters go mental every time, perhaps public protest isn't the ideal medium for getting their message across?

The ten per cent going batshit crazy and smashing up city centres can be quite a distraction you know.

What was it they want again?

its the same with most public protests that get emotions bubbling up. just take a look at the mayday protests for example. they kick off every year with leftie loonies going mental but its the minority that are hell bent of trouble no matter what the organisers want

[bluefox9er]

i know my limitations , i'm no ultra

just trying to see all sides of a very complicated argument , it really isn't as black and white as most ( not all ) seem to suggest

some FT posters are like fookin bull terriers though , they just won't let go ( nothing wrong with that of course ) and good to see so many young people involved in genuine discussion ,

it really did'nt happen so much when i was younger as discussions such as this it usually took place in pubs etc

with the obvious results

good work chaps on both sides

i think it's a lot more simple.

EDL= an unrecognised bunch of hate filled racist thugs with no agenda except to cause racial discord and damage to communities hiding behind a wooly agenda of ONLY hating Islamic radicals

Add to that a generally peaceful Muslim community that has never ever been forthcoming in identifying within their communities these distasteful radical ****ers ( and never likely to start doing it anytime soon) and more likely to deny that radicals muslims exist if the usual soundbites from Immams are anything to go by

Then add to the mix a bunch of socialist workers , anti Fascists and any number of trade unionists etcwho want to add their 2 pence worth.

If radical islam didn't exist, would the EDL exist? thats neither here nor there, but the Islamic communities do have a HUGE responsibility to be more forthcoming with rooting out the hatred within their own communities instead of repeatedly shielding and protecting them with denial. If the Islamic community can pull it's finger out of it's arse and make the radicals within outcasts and criminals instead of brothers, they would gain far greater credibility from society as a whole.

The EDL needs to be stopped and what happened in Leicester should never ever be allowed to happen again. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech and everything to do with causing racial hatred. the 2 are distinct and different.

[FoxyPV]

its the same with most public protests that get emotions bubbling up. just take a look at the mayday protests for example. they kick off every year with leftie loonies going mental but its the minority that are hell bent of trouble no matter what the organisers want

Not to be Just being pedantic here, but those kicking off on Mayday are generally Anarchists not "leftie loonies", and yes, there is a difference.

[bluefox9er]

Not to be Just being pedantic here, but those kicking off on Mayday are generally Anarchists not "leftie loonies", and yes, there is a difference.

yep, they are anarchists, and anti corporates. of course, the trade unionists, socialist workers, anti hunt lobby etc all want a piece of the action, too.

[AoWW]

Fair enough. Didn't know any of this. Though its not a great suprise some factions have joined and hid behind the smokescreen of demonstratiing against extremist muslims.

Incidentally, ANOTHEROFWALSHIESWOMEN asked me to give some example of PC gone mad on Saturday night. Gave them, then logged off. Don't know if she's seen them or not, and I'm not searching through 12 pages to look. Just interested to see if she backed down after I gave the examples or not?

No, ANOTHEROFWALSHIESWOMEN didn't back down - she did have a life to lead, though.

To be honest I thought the examples you gave were so lame they really didn't warrant a considered reply.

As for the family friend, PE teacher (who used to be a marine!) who nearly lost his job, well he fully deserved to be hauled over the coals - for his naivety and lack of professionalism, if nothing else.

[sdb]

Not sure how you've plucked this 100/200 figure out of the air but that, if it were real, would equate to 10% of those present.

That is much, much higher than any football club so far as I can see and tells you all you need to know about the kind of people associated with the EDL.

mate i've already been down the same route. it's like talking to a brick wall. I thought they might back down a little after the video, but they've been totally brainwashed.

apparently 10% (like you say, an arbitrary figure as far as i can make out) of any population starting fights/smashing places up etc as par for the course! it's so depressing it's almost funny.

[Jackirius]

If ten per cent of their supporters go mental every time, perhaps public protest isn't the ideal medium for getting their message across?

The ten per cent going batshit crazy and smashing up city centres can be quite a distraction you know.

What was it they want again?

Is that a semi sensible post i spy?

[Bluefoxtim]

Morons.

[Guest lcfc80]

yep, they are anarchists, and anti corporates. of course, the trade unionists, socialist workers, anti hunt lobby etc all want a piece of the action, too.

exactly

[Houdini Logic]

A sense of national identity and pride, as with any sense of cultural identity, has to come from the people and not top down government dictation. Should the government do more to aid this process though? Arguably. Having St. George's Day made into a national holiday would be a start. Sadly I fear any attempt at a genuine non-xenophobic patriotic movement would almost certainly be hijacked by far right racists for their own ends (as may or may not have been the case with the EDL depending on who and what you believe and whether you trust the supposed purity of the group's original motives).

I completely agree - I don't actually believe our loss of national identity (which is an arguable point in itself) has anything to do with the government - I was responding to a post that was blaming the government for everything but not explaing what they should have done differently or offering solutions.

People just find it too easy to blame the authorities

[Houdini Logic]

Not to be Just being pedantic here, but those kicking off on Mayday are generally Anarchists not "leftie loonies", and yes, there is a difference.

I love how anyone that doesn't want to lynch blacks or stab gays is a 'leftie loonie' these days

[FoxyPV]

yep, they are anarchists, and anti corporates. of course, the trade unionists, socialist workers, anti hunt lobby etc all want a piece of the action, too.

Anarchism as the political movement. The TUs, Socialist Workers etc will stay away from any notion of violence as they are political groups that take part in elections and violence tends to put people off voting for them. Anarchists don't, hence the greater likelihood for violence (probably the Black Bloc who specialise in this)

[The Year Of The Fox]

I completely agree - I don't actually believe our loss of national identity (which is an arguable point in itself) has anything to do with the government - I was responding to a post that was blaming the government for everything but not explaing what they should have done differently or offering solutions.

People just find it too easy to blame the authorities

Theres been many reasons as to why we've lost our sense of national pride. PC, the nanny state, the benefits system to name but a few have all caused this.

PC- The English/British (hate the word British) have become scared to show patritoism in case we offend immigrants. Its important to remember that immigrants are just that. Visitors (for want of a better word) to OUR country.

Nanny State- Health and Safety deeming for example, it too dangerous to hang a COSG flag up on 23rd April. Yet mysteriously, Devali lights may appear when appropriate.

The Benefits System- Too many chavs making careers from drug dealing, sperm donating, and living the easy life giving them no reason to get off their backsides to work, giving them no sense of pride nor belonging.

The list is endless.

All down to the Government. Bring back national service

[Houdini Logic]

Theres been many reasons as to why we've lost our sense of national pride. PC, the nanny state, the benefits system to name but a few have all caused this.

PC- The English/British (hate the word British) have become scared to show patritoism in case we offend immigrants. Its important to remember that immigrants are just that. Visitors (for want of a better word) to OUR country.

Nanny State- Health and Safety deeming for example, it too dangerous to hang a COSG flag up on 23rd April. Yet mysteriously, Devali lights may appear when appropriate.

The Benefits System- Too many chavs making careers from drug dealing, sperm donating, and living the easy life giving them no reason to get off their backsides to work, giving them no sense of pride nor belonging.

The list is endless.

All down to the Government. Bring back national service

And what are you doing personally to help restore our lost sense of national pride?

[rabbid]

This image tells it's own story.........

So does this.......

[rabbid]

I love how anyone that doesn't want to lynch blacks or stab gays is a 'leftie loonie' these days

and anyone who doesn't want a mosque on their road or anymore imigrunts is a knucle dragging nazi

[Fosse Boy]

So does this.......

So that makes pissing in the streets of Leicester OK does it?

[Guest lcfc80]

I love how anyone that doesn't want to lynch blacks or stab gays is a 'leftie loonie' these days

the same way that if you have had enough of soft immigration and the like you are a hardcore racist. As I posted a few pages ago remember Gordon Brown and bigotgate when 'that woman' asked him about polish immigrants. she had some valid points and was labelled a bigot, by the prime minister of all people

[Finnegan]

Not to be Just being pedantic here, but those kicking off on Mayday are generally knuckle-dragging, wannabe Anarchists and silly, impressionable children who give Anarchic ideology a bad name; not "leftie loonies", and yes, there is a difference.

Fixed.

Just being pedantic.

The English/British (hate the word British) have become scared to show patritoism in case we offend immigrants.

Actually, in my experience it's more that the English have become scared to be associated with this sort of mentality and perceived-violent groups like the EDL and I find THAT to be a far more common reason why many people are anxious to wave the St. George's cross.

I think you'll find plenty of "immigrants" love getting behind England and the English and cheering on the likes of Beckham and Rooney every couple of summers. It's the middle-class, soft-cheese-eating, Guardian-reading 'intellectuals' that are the most afraid to "show patriotism" and it's because they don't exactly want to be guilty by association.

And you know what? Not entirely sure I can blame them.

[AoWW]

Fixed.

Just being pedantic.

Actually, in my experience it's more that the English have become scared to be associated with this sort of mentality and perceived-violent groups like the EDL and I find THAT to be a far more common reason why many people are anxious to wave the St. George's cross.

I think you'll find plenty of "immigrants" love getting behind England and the English and cheering on the likes of Beckham and Rooney every couple of summers. It's the middle-class, soft-cheese-eating, Guardian-reading 'intellectuals' that are the most afraid to "show patriotism" and it's because they don't exactly want to be guilty by association.

And you know what? Not entirely sure I can blame them.

I like soft cheese.