EDL (English Defence League)

[bluefox9er]

bloody hell

good grief..that is just disgusting..it's insane and I can't believe in 2010 in a developed country human beings behave like this.

equally stupid are folks inside the diner..who in their right thinking frame of mind would take KIDS for a burger at a place right in the thick of this mindless organised street ruck KNOWING FULL WELL that they would place them at such risk??

the mind fooking boggles.

[Koke]

good grief..that is just disgusting..it's insane and I can't believe in 2010 in a developed country human beings behave like this.

equally stupid are folks inside the diner..who in their right thinking frame of mind would take KIDS for a burger at a place right in the thick of this mindless organised street ruck KNOWING FULL WELL that they would place them at such risk??

the mind fooking boggles.

Yeh, I agree. It was quite naive by those people tbh. You don't go out for a meal with your child when these lot are in town. Very naive.

[sdb]

Just makes you embarrassed seeing that kind of video.

the kids and women in the video were all terrorists though

edit - i feel the need to point out this is a joke in light of a few new ppl joining the debate

the video is shocking but it's nice to see a few posters have piped down since

[The Doctor]

Maybe the edl are right and we need to do more to protect ourselves from extremists but not all muslims are extremists, extremism is not exclusive to islam and they are damn sure going about "protesting" this the wrong way.

Overall though they (the edl) are just a bunch of bigots who probably believe call me tony was doing the right thing by invading iraq rather than just following Bush's knee jerk reaction to a terrorist attack, that the WMD's did actually exist (well actually they did - Iraq had some mustard gas shells and had been experimenting with the use of anthrax in warfare (unsuccessfully) - but not in the number that Bush and Blair had lead us to believe) and that saddam had been supporting terrorist organisations, supplying them with weaponary.

I'm currently studying at a college where, judging by the people in my classes, as a white male i'm in the minority (waits for mail readers to finish exploding with rage) but i've never seen any trouble - all students not in a lesson at that point gathered at the war memorial to pay their respects on 11/11 (don't know about 9/11 - i wasn't in college that early in the morning), i've not heard any racist abuse from any groups of people and tbh from the people i've got to know at that college a couple of the people of the same religion, skin colour etc. as me have appeared to be twats more than any other type of people.

A persons religion doesn't matter and it sure as hell isn't the sole cause of extremism - i'm certain that a very tough, believe every thing in the holy book of whatever religion sort of upbringing is what causes people to follow the whole if you don't belive this religion you're a heathen/infadel/whatever and must be delt with aspect of their religions holy book.

Oh and i'm not left wing - i'm a student yet to have decided on a set of political beliefs, this is just what i think, independent from what any political party thinks and the message they spread.

[Finnegan]

But how exactly are we supposed to "protect ourselves from extremists" and what exactly are the EDL doing about it?

I realised over this weekend that I've been wrong about what I said annoys me the most about the EDL. It isn't the fact that their own, professed, core-aims seem to make them an entirely redundant organization in any country with reasonable law enforcement and security services (and, while it's easy to be cynical, we kinda do.)

What winds me up about the EDL the most is that they're actually causing the very problem they claim to be setting out to stop. They're actually the ones responsible for radicalising the very same people they're supposed to be protesting about radicalising. You think the average MDL member would be even vaguely politically active if they didn't hear about a group of, "purely coincidentally," predominantly white, right-wing, jingoist Englishmen targeting cities with a high ethnic population for marches that almost always get out of control?

What is it? For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction? It works everywhere, it's not just relevant to this context, it's like the waves of little teeny-bopper kids that suddenly became politically active and anti-Bush/Blair when we declared war on Iraq, inspired by mass protests in the capital and the idea that this might be "cool." Previously entirely apathetic and likely the sort of people to brand politics boring or "gay" they instantly became little demonstrators. Only what the EDL are stirring up is far more serious and has far more prospect to be damaging.

If a group like that truly wanted to represent English values whilst making the nation safer for all of us then maybe holding out a few less smoke bombs and bottles and a few more olive branches would do everyone a favour? Encourage diversity, tolerance, harmony and acceptance. Take the sting out of the "extremist" tail. For every impressionable, Islamic youth this nation and it's people rightfully befriend (instead of intimidating into angry violence) there's another step taken towards the sort of peace that will sincerely "defend England."

It isn't tree-hugging, hippy bullshit. It's just common sense. If you want to avoid the problem of a wasps nest you don't just turn up and punch it square on, do you?

[Houdini Logic]

7) - Halal meat is slaughtered in torturous conditions and Asda, KFC and other mainstream places all serve it without your knowledge. Interesting Mcdonalds served it by mistake and apologised knowing its wrong. Now I'm no veggie, but I find this discusting as animals dont have to suffer!! They wouldnt be put down humainly - but because islam has the whip hand over England they have to suffer! If they advertised Halal meat then at least we could shop somewhere else and eventually they'll loose business - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1319218/Chicken-McHalal-An-MoS-investigation-reveals-halal-meat-IS-used-McDonalds-popular-meals.html

Ever eaten Lobster mate?

[The Doctor]

But how exactly are we supposed to "protect ourselves from extremists" and what exactly are the EDL doing about it?

I realised over this weekend that I've been wrong about what I said annoys me the most about the EDL. It isn't the fact that their own, professed, core-aims seem to make them an entirely redundant organization in any country with reasonable law enforcement and security services (and, while it's easy to be cynical, we kinda do.)

What winds me up about the EDL the most is that they're actually causing the very problem they claim to be setting out to stop. They're actually the ones responsible for radicalising the very same people they're supposed to be protesting about radicalising. You think the average MDL member would be even vaguely politically active if they didn't hear about a group of, "purely coincidentally," predominantly white, right-wing, jingoist Englishmen targeting cities with a high ethnic population for marches that almost always get out of control?

What is it? For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction? It works everywhere, it's not just relevant to this context, it's like the waves of little teeny-bopper kids that suddenly became politically active and anti-Bush/Blair when we declared war on Iraq, inspired by mass protests in the capital and the idea that this might be "cool." Previously entirely apathetic and likely the sort of people to brand politics boring or "gay" they instantly became little demonstrators. Only what the EDL are stirring up is far more serious and has far more prospect to be damaging.

If a group like that truly wanted to represent English values whilst making the nation safer for all of us then maybe holding out a few less smoke bombs and bottles and a few more olive branches would do everyone a favour? Encourage diversity, tolerance, harmony and acceptance. Take the sting out of the "extremist" tail. For every impressionable, Islamic youth this nation and it's people rightfully befriend (instead of intimidating into angry violence) there's another step taken towards the sort of peace that will sincerely "defend England."

It isn't tree-hugging, hippy bullshit. It's just common sense. If you want to avoid the problem of a wasps nest you don't just turn up and punch it square on, do you?

i have no idea, and tbh i couldn't care, we're all going to die at some point anyway.

But i'd agree that that they should be trying to promote tolerance, diversity etc. to try and stop extremism, however when you look at the damage that 9/11, 7/7 and others did, are they really likely to be willing to offer peace towards the group of people they believe responsible for what happened?

[Zingari]

But how exactly are we supposed to "protect ourselves from extremists" and what exactly are the EDL doing about it?

I realised over this weekend that I've been wrong about what I said annoys me the most about the EDL. It isn't the fact that their own, professed, core-aims seem to make them an entirely redundant organization in any country with reasonable law enforcement and security services (and, while it's easy to be cynical, we kinda do.)

What winds me up about the EDL the most is that they're actually causing the very problem they claim to be setting out to stop. They're actually the ones responsible for radicalising the very same people they're supposed to be protesting about radicalising. You think the average MDL member would be even vaguely politically active if they didn't hear about a group of, "purely coincidentally," predominantly white, right-wing, jingoist Englishmen targeting cities with a high ethnic population for marches that almost always get out of control?

What is it? For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction? It works everywhere, it's not just relevant to this context, it's like the waves of little teeny-bopper kids that suddenly became politically active and anti-Bush/Blair when we declared war on Iraq, inspired by mass protests in the capital and the idea that this might be "cool." Previously entirely apathetic and likely the sort of people to brand politics boring or "gay" they instantly became little demonstrators. Only what the EDL are stirring up is far more serious and has far more prospect to be damaging.

If a group like that truly wanted to represent English values whilst making the nation safer for all of us then maybe holding out a few less smoke bombs and bottles and a few more olive branches would do everyone a favour? Encourage diversity, tolerance, harmony and acceptance. Take the sting out of the "extremist" tail. For every impressionable, Islamic youth this nation and it's people rightfully befriend (instead of intimidating into angry violence) there's another step taken towards the sort of peace that will sincerely "defend England."

It isn't tree-hugging, hippy bullshit. It's just common sense. If you want to avoid the problem of a wasps nest you don't just turn up and punch it square on, do you?

Good post and sound logic ,

But again you tend to focus ( conciously or not ) solely on what the EDL should and shouldn't do , and seem to ignore the the stupidity and/or hypocricy of the UAF .

I know your argument previously was that UAF were only there because of the intolerance of the EDL towards Islam and by that logic, less guilty , but one could also argue that EDL are only around because of their intolerance of Islamic extremism , and so the endless blame and counter blame continues .

I am basically in favour of your post , and only making a minor point

[Guest Bilo]

Another point I'd like to make is that the authorities and media do seem to have something of a two tier approach to dealing with such groups.

Look at the idiots who abused the British troops in Luton for instance. After an enormous media outcry, their group was fairly swiftly banned by the Home Secretary and no major incidents of note perpetrated by a group purporting to represent Muslims have occurred since. They were an ugly hate group, and the authorities rightly acted quickly and decisively to stamp it out. Anjem Choudary and his cohorts are now notorious for being the utter pricks that they are, and Abu Hamza, who was influential in starting one such group now languishes in prison where he belongs. They got the treatment they deserved.

Now look at the EDL. They have caused untold amounts of damage, both physically and to community relations, at every protest they've attended in less than 18 months. The policing they require runs into millions of pounds. Their members are largely far-right jingoistic thugs with an open hatred of Islam and Muslims as a whole and yet the police accommodate them by roping off their very own street and pubs. They escort them to their protest site, allow them to spill all manner of racist abuse out and then go home. There is no realistic prospect of the group being banned in the short-term, the media isn't using anything like the strong language it used against the Luton twats (in spite of that protest being far smaller and short of physical violence) and we know almost nothing of their leadership, save for a pseudonymous 'Tommy Robinson' being arrested on Saturday.

So is it any wonder that some Muslims feel like second class citizens when there is this clear hypocrisy going on? The EDL are the moral equivalent of the scum who abused the Royal Anglian Regiment but receive a very different level of treatment from the authorities and press alike.

[Dr The Singh]

Another point I'd like to make is that the authorities and media do seem to have something of a two tier approach to dealing with such groups.

Look at the idiots who abused the British troops in Luton for instance. After an enormous media outcry, their group was fairly swiftly banned by the Home Secretary and no major incidents of note perpetrated by a group purporting to represent Muslims have occurred since. They were an ugly hate group, and the authorities rightly acted quickly and decisively to stamp it out. Anjem Choudary and his cohorts are now notorious for being the utter pricks that they are, and Abu Hamza, who was influential in starting one such group now languishes in prison where he belongs. They got the treatment they deserved.

Now look at the EDL. They have caused untold amounts of damage, both physically and to community relations, at every protest they've attended in less than 18 months. The policing they require runs into millions of pounds. Their members are largely far-right jingoistic thugs with an open hatred of Islam and Muslims as a whole and yet the police accommodate them by roping off their very own street and pubs. They escort them to their protest site, allow them to spill all manner of racist abuse out and then go home. There is no realistic prospect of the group being banned in the short-term, the media isn't using anything like the strong language it used against the Luton twats (in spite of that protest being far smaller and short of physical violence) and we know almost nothing of their leadership, save for a pseudonymous 'Tommy Robinson' being arrested on Saturday.

So is it any wonder that some Muslims feel like second class citizens when there is this clear hypocrisy going on? The EDL are the moral equivalent of the scum who abused the Royal Anglian Regiment but receive a very different level of treatment from the authorities and press alike.

There still around mate and they still doing the same shit, but not under the banner of Choudary and HUT. I was in Birmingham about 4 weeks ago, and around 100 radical muslims marched through the city centre spoutting horrid shit etc. But the big difference was that these guys had no intention of causing any violence, not that that they didn;t offend though!!

EDL may have formed with good motives but unfortunaly they have become a band wagon for scum, and the racists of society!!

[Zingari]

Another point I'd like to make is that the authorities and media do seem to have something of a two tier approach to dealing with such groups.

Look at the idiots who abused the British troops in Luton for instance. After an enormous media outcry, their group was fairly swiftly banned by the Home Secretary and no major incidents of note perpetrated by a group purporting to represent Muslims have occurred since. They were an ugly hate group, and the authorities rightly acted quickly and decisively to stamp it out. Anjem Choudary and his cohorts are now notorious for being the utter pricks that they are, and Abu Hamza, who was influential in starting one such group now languishes in prison where he belongs. They got the treatment they deserved.

Now look at the EDL. They have caused untold amounts of damage, both physically and to community relations, at every protest they've attended in less than 18 months. The policing they require runs into millions of pounds. Their members are largely far-right jingoistic thugs with an open hatred of Islam and Muslims as a whole and yet the police accommodate them by roping off their very own street and pubs. They escort them to their protest site, allow them to spill all manner of racist abuse out and then go home. There is no realistic prospect of the group being banned in the short-term, the media isn't using anything like the strong language it used against the Luton twats (in spite of that protest being far smaller and short of physical violence) and we know almost nothing of their leadership, save for a pseudonymous 'Tommy Robinson' being arrested on Saturday.

So is it any wonder that some Muslims feel like second class citizens when there is this clear hypocrisy going on? The EDL are the moral equivalent of the scum who abused the Royal Anglian Regiment but receive a very different level of treatment from the authorities and press alike.

surely you have to be joking

I'm trying to be fairly even handed here but saying this is quite ridiculous , yes maybe that particular bunch of idiots have disappeared off the radar but there is hardly a day goes by without hearing of some Islamic terrorist threat , or horror story

Paris is on red alert , probably London too soon with the 7/7 inquest to begin .

please try to see both sides , because both sets are claiming unfairness by the media etc , is only one group mistaken in their interpretation

oh fook it i give up

[Finnegan]

Terror sells papers, Zingari.

[Zingari]

Terror sells papers, Zingari.

true

but unfortunately " terror" is all too real ,

whether or not conducted by the accused islamic perpetrators ; or orchestrated by the new world order , bilderbergers , cfr , illuminatti , tri lateral commission, zionists or any of the shadowy groups that may be conspiratorially involved

anyway i think we may have all come full circle many times now

[Guest Bilo]

surely you have to be joking

I'm trying to be fairly even handed here but saying this is quite ridiculous , yes maybe that particular bunch of idiots have disappeared off the radar but there is hardly a day goes by without hearing of some Islamic terrorist threat , or horror story

Paris is on red alert , probably London too soon with the 7/7 inquest to begin .

please try to see both sides , because both sets are claiming unfairness by the media etc , is only one group mistaken in their interpretation

oh fook it i give up

That's a different thing though.

The terror groups have MI5 all over them like a rash and a lot of the terror stories you hear in the news are foreign based. The far-right equivalent to some of those groups would be Combat 18, who already showcased their 'potential' via David Copeland in 1999. It would indeed be retarded to compare the EDL to either al-Qaeda or C18.

I'm talking about protest groups stirring up racial hatred and the fact is that there is nothing like a Muslim equivalent of the EDL in terms of numbers and destructive capability, certainly not proscribed by the authorities anyway.

[Zingari]

That's a different thing though.

The terror groups have MI5 all over them like a rash and a lot of the terror stories you hear in the news are foreign based.

I'm talking about protest groups stirring up racial hatred and the fact is that there is nothing like a Muslim equivalent of the EDL in terms of numbers and destructive capability, certainly not proscribed by the authorities anyway.

ok

sorry but it's a bit like squabbling kids each complaining of unfair treatment by mummy and teacher

" it's so unfair , boo hoo "

i really think it's going around in circles and look forward to some terrance ginola posts

ps any idea who he is yet ?

sure he's posted before , i hope it's Chandler

[The Year Of The Fox]

Why are FoxesTalkers so left when the majority of Leicester is right?

Personally I feel that its down to people either wanting to side with the strongest voice, jumping on a bandwagon, and are in fear of being ridiculed if they happen to say what they think.

[Zingari]

Personally I feel that its down to people either wanting to side with the strongest voice, jumping on a bandwagon, and are in fear of being ridiculed if they happen to say what they think.

thats fookin rubbish

fool

[The Year Of The Fox]

Another point I'd like to make is that the authorities and media do seem to have something of a two tier approach to dealing with such groups.

Look at the idiots who abused the British troops in Luton for instance. After an enormous media outcry, their group was fairly swiftly banned by the Home Secretary and no major incidents of note perpetrated by a group purporting to represent Muslims have occurred since. They were an ugly hate group, and the authorities rightly acted quickly and decisively to stamp it out. Anjem Choudary and his cohorts are now notorious for being the utter pricks that they are, and Abu Hamza, who was influential in starting one such group now languishes in prison where he belongs. They got the treatment they deserved.

Now look at the EDL. They have caused untold amounts of damage, both physically and to community relations, at every protest they've attended in less than 18 months. The policing they require runs into millions of pounds. Their members are largely far-right jingoistic thugs with an open hatred of Islam and Muslims as a whole and yet the police accommodate them by roping off their very own street and pubs. They escort them to their protest site, allow them to spill all manner of racist abuse out and then go home. There is no realistic prospect of the group being banned in the short-term, the media isn't using anything like the strong language it used against the Luton twats (in spite of that protest being far smaller and short of physical violence) and we know almost nothing of their leadership, save for a pseudonymous 'Tommy Robinson' being arrested on Saturday.

So is it any wonder that some Muslims feel like second class citizens when there is this clear hypocrisy going on? The EDL are the moral equivalent of the scum who abused the Royal Anglian Regiment but receive a very different level of treatment from the authorities and press alike.

Disagree completely. For a start the EDL wouldn't have grown to such proportions had those protestors not been allowed to demonstrate in Luton. It angered so many people. These lads are our soldiers, protecting our country. They should've been shot. Preferbaly by the SA 80s the soldiers were marching with.

[Houdini Logic]

surely you have to be joking

I'm trying to be fairly even handed here but saying this is quite ridiculous , yes maybe that particular bunch of idiots have disappeared off the radar but there is hardly a day goes by without hearing of some Islamic terrorist threat , or horror story

Paris is on red alert , probably London too soon with the 7/7 inquest to begin .

please try to see both sides , because both sets are claiming unfairness by the media etc , is only one group mistaken in their interpretation

oh fook it i give up

I'm assuming then, going on what you're saying, that the EDL have no problems with gays, afro-caribbean, polish, romanian, indians, etc...?

[Houdini Logic]

Disagree completely. For a start the EDL wouldn't have grown to such proportions had those protestors not been allowed to demonstrate in Luton. It angered so many people. These lads are our soldiers, protecting our country. They should've been shot. Preferbaly by the SA 80s the soldiers were marching with.

As above then. If the EDL grew to make a stance against Choudary and co and solely exist to stamp out world terror, I'm assuming they'll let me join as a gay indian immigrant, yeah?

[The Year Of The Fox]

As above then. If the EDL grew to make a stance against Choudary and co and solely exist to stamp out world terror, I'm assuming they'll let me join as a gay indian immigrant, yeah?

I genuinely don't know. Believe it or not I'm not a member of the EDL. But there are a number of Sikhs who are in it, or who openly support it, so maybe so

[Dr The Singh]

As above then. If the EDL grew to make a stance against Choudary and co and solely exist to stamp out world terror, I'm assuming they'll let me join as a gay indian immigrant, yeah?

You could join the EDL, it actively promotes ethics to join it's ranks, BUT the whole movement has been hijacked by the BNP, NF and other racist thugs. One of the EDL leaders is Guramit Singh, who at the Dudley march was heckeld and spat at by the EDL supporters during his speech!!

Anything good or good intentions of the EDL has vanished into dust........any group that aligns itself and welcomes the BNP, NF and other shites have lost all legitimacy!!

[The Year Of The Fox]

You could join the EDL, it actively promotes ethics to join it's ranks, BUT the whole movement has been hijacked by the BNP, NF and other racist thugs. One of the EDL leaders is Guramit Singh, who at the Dudley march was heckeld and spat at by the EDL supporters during his speech!!

Anything good or good intentions of the EDL has vanished into dust........any group that aligns itself and welcomes the BNP, NF and other shites have lost all legitimacy!!

Fair enough. Didn't know any of this. Though its not a great suprise some factions have joined and hid behind the smokescreen of demonstratiing against extremist muslims.

Incidentally, ANOTHEROFWALSHIESWOMEN asked me to give some example of PC gone mad on Saturday night. Gave them, then logged off. Don't know if she's seen them or not, and I'm not searching through 12 pages to look. Just interested to see if she backed down after I gave the examples or not?

[Guest Bilo]

Disagree completely. For a start the EDL wouldn't have grown to such proportions had those protestors not been allowed to demonstrate in Luton. It angered so many people. These lads are our soldiers, protecting our country. They should've been shot. Preferbaly by the SA 80s the soldiers were marching with.

OK, hypothetical situation for a second.

Let's say the MDL saw an explosion in membership as a result of EDL violence across the country against Muslims. It grows to around 2,000 and organises protests in towns where the EDL are prominent or where the BNP have got a foothold, really sensitive areas. When the MDL roll up in their MDL branded tops they abuse white people left, right and centre. They smash up shops owned by white people and sing songs they know will be offensive to Jews and Christians.

Would you excuse the MDL for their actions because of what the EDL did in the first place?

[Houdini Logic]

Fair enough. Didn't know any of this. Though its not a great suprise some factions have joined and hid behind the smokescreen of demonstratiing against extremist muslims.

Incidentally, ANOTHEROFWALSHIESWOMEN asked me to give some example of PC gone mad on Saturday night. Gave them, then logged off. Don't know if she's seen them or not, and I'm not searching through 12 pages to look. Just interested to see if she backed down after I gave the examples or not?

How could you not know any of this?! Not even an incline?

You see well informed when you're making opinions that suit your outlook/opinions