Trav Le Bleu Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Could have sworn this topic was about the EDL at one point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zubi Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Just a quick question If God created man at what point did he start laying down the laws ? because man has been around an awfully long time before he could speak yet alone invent written work ? So who wrote the Bible and all the other fiction section law books ? The Bible/Torah/Quran were revealed to the messengers of God through revelation from the Angel Gabriel. The revelation was then scribed by the messengers and their companions. Laws and teachings were revelaed depending on the era of the messengers. The earliest being Adam And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: “Tell me the names of these if you are truthful.”, They said: “Glory be to You! We possess no knowledge save what You have taught us. Indeed, You alone are All-Knowing, the Wise.” He said: “O Adam! Inform them of their names.” When he had informed them, Allah said: “Did I not tell you that I know what is unseen in the heavens and on Earth, and I know what you reveal and what you hide?” (2 - 31:33) Messengers like Noah, Abraham, Enoch were not given laws, but they were sent to lay down the foundation of monotheism. So god would reveal to them that their mission is to simply teach the people about monotheism and to tell them to give up idolatory. “And recite to them the story of Abraham. When he said to his father and his people: “What do you worship?” They said: “We worship idols, and to them we are ever devoted.” He said: “Do they hear you, when you call (on them)? Or do they benefit you or do they harm (you)?” They said: “Nay, but we found our fathers doing so.” He said: “Do you observe that which you have been worshipping, you and your ancient fathers? Verily! They are enemies to me, save the Lord of all that exists; Who has created me, and it is He Who guides me; And it is He Who feeds me and gives me to drink. And when I am ill, it is He who cures me; And Who will cause me to die, and then will bring me to life (again).” (26:69-81) Moses was the first messenger who really recieved a great revelation to give to his people. He was entrusted with the Torah, I'm sure you've heard about the Burning Bush in Sinai and his general story. Verily, We did send down the Torah to Moses, therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to God's Will, judged the Jews. And the rabbis and the priests too judged the Jews by the Torah for to them was entrusted the protection of God's Book, and they were witnesses thereto.” (Quran 5:44) During this time idolatory was being practiced through the ancient Egyptions. The pharoahs were ruthless in the way they treated their people and how they themselves claimed to be gods, We recite to you some of the news of Moses and Pharaoh in truth, for a people who believe. Verily, Pharaoh exalted himself in the land and made its people sects, weakening (oppressing) a group (i.e. Children of Israel) among them; killing their sons, and letting their females live. Verily, he was of those who commit great sins and crimes, oppressors, tyrant. (Quran 28:3&4) And thus after saving his people from Pharoah, God revealed to him the 10 commandments. “Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited you from, Join not anything in worship with Him; be good and dutiful to your parents; kill not your children because of poverty- We provide sustenance for you and for them; come not near to shameful sins whether committed openly or secretly; and kill not anyone whom God has forbidden, except for a just cause. This He has commanded you that you may understand. And come not near to the orphan’s property, except to improve it, until he or she attains the age of full strength; and give full measure and full weight with justice. We burden not any person but that which he can bear. And whenever you give your word (i.e. judge between men or give evidences) say the truth even if a near relative is concerned, and fulfil the Covenant of God. This He commands you, that you may remember.” (Quran 6:151-152) So then the Children of Israel now followed these laws. But after some time the people began to toy about with the revelations of Moses, So even though people still worshiped one god their now corruption going through the religion (monotheism), so God sent Jesus to reaffirm the message and bring some new scriptures to the children of Israel. He was given the Torah again and now he had been given revelations of the gospel. “It is He Who has sent down the Book to you with truth, confirming what came before it.” (Quran 3:3) “And He will teach him the Book and the Wisdom, the Torah and the Injeel(Gospel).” (Quran 3:48) So thus the gospel was revealed with new Laws and passages from God. Then the Qur'aan was revealed some time after that to again reaffirm the faith of the people of the books, as they started to worship Jesus and call him the son of god rather than God “O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say unto men: ‘Worship me and my mother as two gods besides God?’ He (Jesus) will say: Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right. Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All Knower of all that is hidden and unseen. Never did I say to them aught except what You (God) did command me to say: ‘Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.’” (Quran 5:116-117) Well thats the Muslim perspective, I'm sure there are some others who can give a Christian perspective or Jewish one. Hope that helps you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zubi Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 He does, I am God!!!! I give you the cold shoulder cus you do not worship me!! Come now Singh, I'm sure even the god of Sikhism will find that blasphemous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 So all the findings of prehostoric man are false? The fossiles from 60 billion years ago are a conspiracy? If it was just Adam and Eve who did they fornicate with to produce grandchildren? No I cannot accept this creation stuff. Amoebas slimy creatures etc converged and evolved into walking talking creatures over million of years. Science has proved this. Preostoric man was unable to understand how man was created but could see the stars and what appeared to be figures and because of storms lightning etc due to the earth being relativally new thought the figures in the sky was causing it all. So thats how it all began. The elders in the village used to say to the tribesmen. 'Give me your woman for the night and I will ask them to stop sometimes it worked and when it didnt the elder said maybe you should let m,e make love to your daughter as well and maybe sacrifice a goat just to make sure. I was in a charity shop yesterday and a book on display was the Budhists Bible. Not sure if they differ from others but they seem more peaceful. Saw part of a programme about it a week or so ago where they had to carry a bucket of water without spilling it to some stature. The carriers hd to clear their mind to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 If there was two of each animal going into the ark how come there were no mention of them eating each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zubi Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 So all the findings of prehostoric man are false? The fossiles from 60 billion years ago are a conspiracy? If it was just Adam and Eve who did they fornicate with to produce grandchildren? No I cannot accept this creation stuff. Amoebas slimy creatures etc converged and evolved into walking talking creatures over million of years. Science has proved this. Preostoric man was unable to understand how man was created but could see the stars and what appeared to be figures and because of storms lightning etc due to the earth being relativally new thought the figures in the sky was causing it all. So thats how it all began. The elders in the village used to say to the tribesmen. 'Give me your woman for the night and I will ask them to stop sometimes it worked and when it didnt the elder said maybe you should let m,e make love to your daughter as well and maybe sacrifice a goat just to make sure. I was in a charity shop yesterday and a book on display was the Budhists Bible. Not sure if they differ from others but they seem more peaceful. Saw part of a programme about it a week or so ago where they had to carry a bucket of water without spilling it to some stature. The carriers hd to clear their mind to do it. You don't have to believe it... But we do The same way I don't believe that evolution can create an amazingly complex being like a human from an ameoba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Matrix Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 and unicorns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 First there was an explosion of unimaginable fury. Then came the formation of an enormous mechanical universe. On an insignificant speck of matter, an obscure place of rare benign conditions, a tiny and fragile fragment of life was born, an exquisite bit of order that defied chaos. In its survival struggle it developed the ability to be intelligent, a force that overcomes all. With this latent power, will life now have lofty goals, and grow to claim this entire kingdom as its own? Or will it struggle briefly, intent only on its own interests, then fade into oblivion? Seems quite straightforward to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 If there was two of each animal going into the ark how come there were no mention of them eating each other? Do animals eat each other in zoos? I have no idea what the bible says about the ark (nor do I care) but I assume it was essentially a floating zoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxyPV Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Do animals eat each other in zoos? I have no idea what the bible says about the ark (nor do I care) but I assume it was essentially a floating zoo. That's what the separate pens are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 That's what the separate pens are for. yes I am aware of that, Do animals eat each other in zoos was a rhetorical question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxyPV Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 yes I am aware of that, Do animals eat each other in zoos was a rhetorical question. The Arc worked because God realised after the unicorns were killed that it would have to fill the animals full of its love to stop them turning on each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 The unicorn wasn't a peaceful creature, it had a dirty great horn on it's forehead, easy to run people through with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zubi Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 The unicorn wasn't a peaceful creature, it had a dirty great horn on it's forehead, easy to run people through with. You got that right... Pretty heartless if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 You got that right... Pretty heartless if you ask me :laugh: How did you end up coming across that then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 I still think the ark was a silly idea. There are millions varieties of insects and at that time many were still in the early stages of evolution. Chamelions changed their DNA because of environment changes and I am sure other creatures did the same. There may well have been a flood but it was the survival of the fittest and the ability to adapt to changes in the Earths climate that enabled them to carry on not all jumping onto a lifeboat. This is scientifically called natual selection which is why the Dodo died out. They could not exist or breed fast enough in the world of their day. Not sure about unicorns. I'm sure there must have been creatures similar but maybe evolved into something that would survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raw Dykes Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 I still think the ark was a silly idea. There are millions varieties of insects and at that time many were still in the early stages of evolution. Chamelions changed their DNA because of environment changes and I am sure other creatures did the same. There may well have been a flood but it was the survival of the fittest and the ability to adapt to changes in the Earths climate that enabled them to carry on not all jumping onto a lifeboat. This is scientifically called natual selection which is why the Dodo died out. They could not exist or breed fast enough in the world of their day. Not sure about unicorns. I'm sure there must have been creatures similar but maybe evolved into something that would survive. Well, we really should be shocked if anyone actually believes that story. I know there are people, but it baffles me. A global flood is impossible - where did the water come from, and where did it go? What happened to all the freshwater fish? How big was this boat that was big enough to house two of each species? There's currently less than 1% of all the species that have ever lived on the planet! We all are related to Noah and his immediate family, are we? Just Noah, his wife and their kids on that boat. Just think about where the generation after came from... or rather, don't, because you may vomit. The thing that makes me laugh is that bible literalists believe the earth is about 6000 years old, so they must choose between an impossibly massive boat that could fit two of every single species that are on the planet right now, or go with a few basic species that had to super-evolve into the millions of species we have today over just a few thousand years. Both options are ridiculously far-fetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 creatures did evolve but not in the time span suggested. As for the flood there may have been a Tsami type incident (as with Atlantis0 and some animals were saved but the amount has been exagerated over the centries. Could Noah and his missus count or write? Who logged the animals in as they boarded the Ark? I accept some things may have happened that are in the OT but there are inacrcies within it too. Some things are out of sequence and there are gaps in time which accounts for the ages of some of the people portrayed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zubi Posted 10 September 2011 Share Posted 10 September 2011 Well, we really should be shocked if anyone actually believes that story. I know there are people, but it baffles me. A global flood is impossible - where did the water come from, and where did it go? What happened to all the freshwater fish? How big was this boat that was big enough to house two of each species? There's currently less than 1% of all the species that have ever lived on the planet! We all are related to Noah and his immediate family, are we? Just Noah, his wife and their kids on that boat. Just think about where the generation after came from... or rather, don't, because you may vomit. The thing that makes me laugh is that bible literalists believe the earth is about 6000 years old, so they must choose between an impossibly massive boat that could fit two of every single species that are on the planet right now, or go with a few basic species that had to super-evolve into the millions of species we have today over just a few thousand years. Both options are ridiculously far-fetched. The story of Noah is mentioned in all three major scriptures so there will probably be about 3-4 billion people in the world who believe in its story Where did the water come from and where did it go? Hmmm I really can't give a better answer than it was the will of God Not the answer you were looking for was it . When Noah built the ship he built in on top of a mountain and water was said to come from the sky and gush from the ground. “‘O Earth! Swallow up your water, and O sky! Withhold (your rain).’ The water was diminished (made to subside) and the Decree (of God) was fulfilled (the destruction of the people of Noah). And it (the ship) rested on Mount Judi, and it was said: ‘Away with the people who are wrongdoing.’” (Quran 11:44) You have to understand that in religion the messengers were usually granted a special favour or miracle. Noahs was the flood, Jesus could heal the sick, Moses could part the red Sea, Solomon could communicate with animals... etc. And contrary to what you said, Noahs Wife and one of his sons were not on the ship with him, they did not believe in his message so they were of the people who drowned. But there were people who did believe his message on the ship so they were not the only Humans onboard. “And Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself (apart), ‘O my son! Embark with us and be not with the disbelievers.’ The son replied, ‘I will betake myself to a mountain; it will save me from the water.’ Noah said: ‘This day there is no saviour from the Decree of God except him on whom He has mercy.’ And a wave came in between them so he (the son) was among the drowned.” (Quran 11:42-43) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zubi Posted 10 September 2011 Share Posted 10 September 2011 :laugh: How did you end up coming across that then? It was on my recommended channel on Youtube I really dont know what I watched to recommend that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 10 September 2011 Share Posted 10 September 2011 So basically God let millions of people drown because they did not believe in him. The way I see it there was a storm and Noah said to his wife I think we'd better get to higher ground love and she said nah its only a shower it wont last long You go and I'll have your dinner ready for when you come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st Century Fox Posted 10 September 2011 Share Posted 10 September 2011 I heard an 'amazing' creationist theory once that fossils don't prove evolution or how old a particular species is, they show how advanced certain animals were because the animals that are closer to our surface were the cleverer animals that got to higher ground during 'the great flood' and the stupider animals are fossilised further down!! Seriously! Also the story of the great flood pre-dates christianity without a mention of christian God in the epic of Gilgamesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 10 September 2011 Share Posted 10 September 2011 I won't dispute that there wasn't some type of flood but at what scale I cannot say. The story of it would have been passed down through generations byword of mouth. Probably by the campfire as a bedtime story. The story would probably involve some brave warrior who saved his people. When Christiananity and other faiths came about the heros became Gods and the story grew according to the greatness of the God. Any story teller will tell you that to keep a captive audience you have to make the story interesting and meaningful to the audience. Camp fire stories often have a moral to the tale so the younger listeners follow the right path. Maybe that is where society has gone wrong in recent years. Fewer bedtime stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panky and our gang Posted 10 September 2011 Share Posted 10 September 2011 Shows how naive I am I thought a Rhinoceros was a obese Unicorn . :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houdini Logic Posted 10 September 2011 Share Posted 10 September 2011 I heard Noah was a beastophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.