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nathan.

EDL (English Defence League)

By nathan., in General Chat

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zubi

zubi

Posted
Posted

You don't have to explain to me dear i'm not really in the least interested in you or your avatar i'm having one of my immature moments lol lol ( quite right Zubi bet it made you laugh though ? ) we are all human after all . but then again Hudi which ever one of the cocks it was it looks like it came all over your head . lol lol

f4804b91-b2da-4f98-9486-4bb34f9de1d7.jpg

Ok I admit I giggled at you and houdinis little showdown :giggle:

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panky and our gang

panky and our gang

Posted
Posted

Fair point and taken on board CF. though I digress at the word spew I find that belittling it is merely a point of view . And I welcome any challenge on my views . Believe it or not I have learned a lot from the postings on this site and have the capacity to change my views ( take a bow Zubi ) so if nothing else it's lively debate and i am enjoying it and long may it last .

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Rincewind

Rincewind

Posted
Posted

I'm an athiest but I am not a bigot. Belief and faith has helped many people through hard times. I feel I don't need that to get through hard times but I think that the faith makes people stronger to find the inner strength to pull through.

In some instances I am against some religions because I see them as insitutions to doctrinise the young and vulnerable. But occasionally good things come ourt of it and that's fine by me.

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zubi

zubi

Posted
Posted

Personally I think god must have slit his own wrists after seeing what he created :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

lol that thought would never have crossed my mind. There is the famous qoute however that "god has a plan for everything", maybe he created good and bad people and places to conflict with eachother in order to test us in good deeds ;)

If you are a believer, like me, what's amazing isn't found in this world, it's the reward of paradise in the hereafter :thumbup:

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Charl91

Charl91

Posted
Posted

I'm not religious myself, and take the view that;

A) If God existed, he must be a massive douche for all the crap that happens. Having a "great afterlife" isn't a justification for me.

B) If God did exist I wouldn't worship him anyway - why should I worship someone for just creating me? After all, I don't worship my parents.

C) Even God couldn't like Psalms

However, I respect some of the views that religion puts foward, such as loving your family, etc. and I appreciate that religion helps a lot of people, so I don't think it's a bad thing.

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted

Good read from Peter Thatchell who went on saturday, always liked him as he is one of the ones on the left who actually oppose all sort of bigotry and no just white-spewed racism.

Like many other people, I went to last Saturdays protest in East London first and foremost to oppose the far right English Defence League and to defend the Muslim community against EDL thuggery.

But I also wanted to stand in solidarity with Muslims who oppose far right Islamists. These fundamentalists threaten and intimidate the Muslim community; especially fellow Muslims who dont conform to their harsh, intolerant interpretation of Islam. To varying degrees, both the Islamists and the EDL menace Muslim people.

In addition, I wanted to be visible as a gay man, to demonstrate that East London is not and never will be a Gay-Free Zone and to show that most lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people are not anti-Muslim; that there are LGBTs who want to work in solidarity with Muslim people to oppose all prejudice, discrimination and violence.

To these ends, my human rights campaign colleague Ashley McAlister and I joined the anti-EDL protest, carrying double-sided placards which read on one side: Stop EDL & far right Islamists. No to ALL hate and on the other side: "Gays & Muslims UNITE! Stop the EDL".

We got dirty looks from a small number of left-wing and LGBT anti-EDL protesters, some of whom said explicitly that our placards were insensitive...provocative...inappropriate...divisive and that I am racist...fascist...anti-Muslim.

There was also hostility from a minority of Muslims who were part of the anti-EDL demonstration, including attempts to snatch and rip my placard. These fanatics mostly objected to the slogan: "Gays & Muslims UNITE! Stop the EDL". I was surrounded several times throughout the day by angry Muslim youths who ordered me: You must remove this placard...You cant walk here with these words...We dont allow gays in this area...Gays are not permitted here...We dont have gays in Tower Hamlets.

When I suggested that LGBT Muslims must also be defended against the EDL, I was told: Gays cant be Muslims...We will never accept them (LGBT Muslims)...They cant come around here...We wont allow it.

My response was to engage with these Muslims hotheads and argue against them. The discussions got very heated; at times even menacing and scary. There were moments when I thought I was going to be physically attacked. Thankfully, this did not happen, probably because there were police nearby and, more significantly, because several Muslims intervened to defend my right to be there and to express my viewpoint. Some Muslims even thanked me for joining the anti-EDL protest.

In the course of the arguments, I diffused the hostility of quite a few Muslim critics. I suggested that love and compassion were core Islamic values and that even if Muslims personally disapproved of homosexuality there is nothing in the Qur'an that sanctions hatred or discrimination against LGBT people. Several eventually agreed that homophobia was wrong. Some shook my hand and parted with a more live and let live attitude a big improvement on their initial response.

This change in attitude as a result of Ashley and I being willing to engage in dialogue was really positive and inspiring. It shows how important and effective such an engagement can be. We need more of it.

Interestingly, there was very little overt, identifiable Muslim hostility to our placard slogan:

Stop EDL & far right Islamists. No to ALL hate. There were a few nasty, aggressive looks but thats all. Indeed, several Muslims indicated that they also oppose the Islamist far right. They realise that extremist groups like Islam4UK and Hizb ut-Tahrir, which want to establish a religious dictatorship, threaten the human rights of mainstream Muslims. These fundamentalists have a similar bigoted agenda to the EDL and BNP.

Our experience on Saturday is further evidence that we need an East End Gay Pride that goes through the heart of the Muslim community in E1, to engage with the Muslim communities and build mutual understanding.

Interestingly, there were lots of LGBT protesters against the EDL. But I never saw a single one with a gay badge, placard, t-shirt or rainbow flag. It was as if theyd all gone back in the closet. Why? Normally, on other demos, they always proclaim their LGBT identity. How strange. Ashley McAlister and I were the only visibly gay protesters in the entire anti-EDL demonstration.

The people who called for the anti-EDL protest to be called off were mistaken. In the absence of a visible counter-protest, the EDL would have been able to rally unchallenged and claim a victory. It would have sent the wrong signal if the EDL had been permitted to claim any part of East London as its own.

Saturdays peaceful protest against the EDL was important because it showed that most of our communities are united in solidarity and that we will not be divided by the hate-mongering of the far right.

What too many anti-fascists refuse to acknowledge is that Islamist fundamentalism mirrors the right-wing ideology of the EDL (and the BNP). In fact, the Islamist goals are much more dangerous. They want to establish a theocratic tyranny, ban trade unions and political parties and deny women equal human rights. They endorse hatred and violence against Jewish, Hindu and LGBT people. Muslims who dont follow their particular brand of Islam would face severe persecution in their Islamist state. These fanatical sects condone terrorism and the suicide bombing of innocent civilians. Not even the BNP and EDL are this extreme.

The failure of many people on the Left to speak out against Islamist fundamentalism is de facto collusion with extremism and a betrayal of the Muslim majority. It also creates a political vacuum, which the EDL is seeking to exploit and manipulate.

Some anti-fascists argue that we should not condemn the Islamists because this will fuel anti-Muslim sentiment. Wrong. Protesting against the fundamentalists and defending mainstream Muslims is actually the most effective way to undermine Islamophobia.

In the absence of a left-wing critique of the Islamist far right, the EDL is able to pose as the sole critic of Islamist extremism and to mount indiscriminate attacks on the whole Muslim community.

This silence and inaction by many on the left is objectively (albeit unintentionally) colluding with both fundamentalist fanaticism and anti-Muslim prejudice.

To be credible and effective, opponents of the EDL need to be consistent by also taking a stand against right-wing Islamists. Only this way can we offer a principled alternative to the EDL that isolates and targets the extremists without demonising the whole Muslim population.

]

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panky and our gang

panky and our gang

Posted
Posted

Religion is just a crutch for the frightened little lambs among us . Too scared to even think that there is nothing at the end of life and behave accordingly . Oooo I must not do that Gods watching and i won't get to heaven ! pretty bloody childish, and live and die never realising Religion is man made to control and use the frightened little sheep and even tell them to go and kill fellow human beings for not believing ! True freedom starts with the rejection of all thing secular . Oh and Tatchell is going to hell for dropping anchor in poo bay according to the bible . :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

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Webbo

Webbo

Posted
Posted

Religion is just a crutch for the frightened little lambs among us . Too scared to even think that there is nothing at the end of life and behave accordingly . Oooo I must not do that Gods watching and i won't get to heaven ! pretty bloody childish, and live and die never realising Religion is man made to control and use the frightened little sheep and even tell them to go and kill fellow human beings for not believing ! True freedom starts with the rejection of all thing secular . Oh and Tatchell is going to hell for dropping anchor in poo bay according to the bible . :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

sec·u·lar   

adjective

1.

of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests.

2.

not pertaining to or connected with religion ( opposed to sacred): secular music.

3.

(of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligious subjects.

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Charl91

Charl91

Posted
Posted

Religion is just a crutch for the frightened little lambs among us . Too scared to even think that there is nothing at the end of life and behave accordingly . Oooo I must not do that Gods watching and i won't get to heaven ! pretty bloody childish, and live and die never realising Religion is man made to control and use the frightened little sheep and even tell them to go and kill fellow human beings for not believing ! True freedom starts with the rejection of all thing secular . Oh and Tatchell is going to hell for dropping anchor in poo bay according to the bible . :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

Did you not agree with his article?

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