Corky Posted 8 September 2011 Share Posted 8 September 2011 What does Foxy Peter think of the UAH group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raj Posted 8 September 2011 Share Posted 8 September 2011 I'm starting UAH - Unite Against Hate. We have a firm anti-EDL, anti-Religious Extremism, anti-homophobia, anti-anti-Semitism, and so on and so forth. Due to the very nature of our group, we will not have angry protests. Our protests will involve tea, biscuits, and a good ol' chinwag, all in the general vicinity of hateful happenings. If we can't stop hate with tea and biscuits what can? WHO'S WITH ME???? HATE decaffinated T. I want Latte. If you have Latte i will join. If not, you can go fcuk you big poof Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDog Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 can it be scientifically proven? Cos I thought we were carbon based and as far as I know there is no carbon in clay.. Were we moulded like in the Film Ghost? We are about 18% carbon I think. We are mostly made of water apparantly as is all other life. I'm surprised everything isn't a bit more wobbly to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDog Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 But you could also say the universe is perfect because it made itself perfect by definition. What works, what survives and flourishes, does so because it is the only possible outcome of its environment and surroundings. The Blind Watchmaker theory over The Watchmaker Theory. Does The Blind Watchmaker theory endorse Darwinian macroevolution? If so, I'm out. All that random mutation and intelligence and beauty appearing out of nothing malarkey doesn't wash round here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDog Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Will they also accept responsibility when the sun eventually dies and runs out of power? For sure! It's in all the old books. All the old religious dudes knew the Sun would die. "The Sun and the Moon follow courses exactly computed." Quran 55.5 "He makes night merge into day and day merge into night, and He has made the sun and moon subservient (to you), each one pursues it's course until a specified time. That is God, your Lord. The Kingdom is His. Those you call on besides Him have no power over even the smallest speck." Quran 13.2 "He it is who appointed the Sun a splendour and the Moon a light and measured for her stages that you might know the number of the years, and the reckoning. God has not created this except in truth. He details the signs for people who have knowledge." Quran 10.5 Our Sun has already done just over 20 of it's orbits around the Milky Way and scientists say it has 31 orbits left until it is finished. No sooner and no later - "until a specified time". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDog Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 That quote is so vague, it could mean anything. You say the verse is quite vague but I don't think so. It specifically says, talking about the universe, "We are steadily expanding it". It doesn't say, "We could expand it", or, "We have expanded it". It says what is actually happening - the universe is expanding. Just think, if there really is a god, and we really did have a book of his words, wouldn't you expect specifics? Wouldn't you expect some incredible detailed descriptions about things we couldn't possibly know yet? I have read plenty of specifics and detailed descriptions in a few of the old books, but no I didn't expect them. What would you say is the point of Venus, Saturn or any of the other possibly infinite number of planets that cannot support life? I'm not sure how the existence of a massive universe could be used to argue that the universe wasn't created. Many religions talk about life across the universe. Who knows what the point of those planets is or was, us humans certainly haven't a clue yet. They must be or once had been contributing something . When they were closer to the sun they could have been in any different form and maybe supported life, we'll never know because we've missed 4 billion years of the action apparantly! In many religions the books talk about worlds being destroyed and new worlds starting and I'm willing to go with that theory and I think science might one day prove it to be true. Who can blame them? They lived in a time when mankind knew practically bugger all about the world. If you want to be religious, then that's your prerogative, but you can't kid yourself that it's in any way scientific. You'll be eating your words one day when science sways towards intelligent design! New branches of science are already starting to blow away the random mutation and 'intelligence magically inventing itself from inanimate matter' baloney. I also beg to differ on the point that ancient folk knew bugger all. Evidence is constantly coming out that much older and brighter civilizations have existed than we are taught. 1. I think everyone can see what a sham all religion is if they only think about it for a while. 2. Do you think religion cares more about the truth, or controlling people? 3.Just ask yourself how you feel about any religion other than your own. Do you think Scientology, Wicca, Mormonism or the religions of the ancient Greeks or Egyptians have any basis in fact? If not, why not? How is your religion any different? 1. I don't think that too many people ponder about their existence to be honest. But who can blame them, it's a busy life! 2. Who is controlling who? I've never understood that point. Religions aren't supposed to have leaders, they are personal things. 3. Yes, I think that the religions I know about all have some basis in fact. Don't know anything about the S,W or M religions to comment. In Egyptian religion I'd say Tutankhamun knew better than the others, or was at least more honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexikokopops Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Only if the tea is decaffinated. I might get carried away and roll my eyes. HATE decaffinated T. I want Latte. If you have Latte i will join. If not, you can go fcuk you big poof Alex. There we be a selection of teas (caff, decaff, those fancy ones which I always feel slightly uncomfortable drinking). There will also be a variety of coffees (a unknown area for me, it must be said). However, I forgot to mention the full name is UAHAR - Unite Against Hate And Raj. Sorry What does Foxy Peter think of the UAH group? Ultimately, I think the success of the group rests on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Those passges don't really show any proof that God was doing these things. Remove the word God and it could have been written by early mathamiticians It just says the sun will die some time in the future. And why couldn't Man evolve from chemicals? We are now able to clone. You can merge blood cells of two different species and they will repel like a magnet. Put two with a similar make-up and they will merge. At one point in time snakes had legs. Because of the envionment they lived in these were lost over time thus enebling them to survive. There are other reptales in the snake family that do have legs in order to escape from predators. Sea-horses give birth to millions of eggs. The majority perish but there need only be twoo for them to survive.. I saw a programme once I forget what the animal was but it was mother escping from wolves. She had a young baby with her. At one point the baby was struggling to keep up so the mother had a decision to make Either carry the baby which would mean slowing down the escape and meaning they would be caught or leave the baby. It was captured wonerfully on camera. The mother turne back a couple of times before leaving the baby which was certain to be eaten. The mother instictavly knew that she had a choice and this is how creatures evolved and survived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny. Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 "The Sun and the Moon follow courses exactly computed." Quran 55.5 This is just very basic observation about the day/night cycle - a monkey could work this out. "He makes night merge into day and day merge into night, and He has made the sun and moon subservient (to you), each one pursues it's course until a specified time. That is God, your Lord. The Kingdom is His. Those you call on besides Him have no power over even the smallest speck." Quran 13.2 "He it is who appointed the Sun a splendour and the Moon a light and measured for her stages that you might know the number of the years, and the reckoning. God has not created this except in truth. He details the signs for people who have knowledge." Quran 10.5 Our Sun has already done just over 20 of it's orbits around the Milky Way and scientists say it has 31 orbits left until it is finished. No sooner and no later - "until a specified time". Blatantly obvious this verse is also talking about the day/night cycle and is just saying the sun shines until a specified time each day (i.e. whenever the sun sets) and the moon the same - even though it's since been shown the moon just reflects sunlight and isn't some kind of counterpart to the sun as people used to believe. How you can suggest this is showing that the sun has completed 20 orbits of the Milky Way is beyond me and seems wishful thinking on your part. You say the verse is quite vague but I don't think so. It specifically says, talking about the universe, "We are steadily expanding it". It doesn't say, "We could expand it", or, "We have expanded it". It says what is actually happening - the universe is expanding. The fact it says "We are steadily expanding it" shows there is nothing scientific about that verse as 'steadily' suggests a linear expansion, but the rate of expansion is accelerating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panky and our gang Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 In the spirit of Balance and fair play I am willing to head a counter group namely The Anti U.A H Anti sun and Moon going around like they own the place afternoon Tea and Cake club. To meet twice a week under the Liberty statue then on to a march past up Filbert way . Names please .--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 What does Foxy Peter think of the UAH group? I'm sure he'll address this when he can. He's busy helping me move house at the moment. We're having such a laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raw Dykes Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Does The Blind Watchmaker theory endorse Darwinian macroevolution? If so, I'm out. All that random mutation and intelligence and beauty appearing out of nothing malarkey doesn't wash round here! To start off, I want to make it clear that I'm not picking on your, or any other, religion in particular. I think they're all nonsense. In this one sentence, you've said so much. You've admitted you reject the theory of evolution, and you've also admitted you don't know the first thing about it. Ironically, evolution doesn't state that anything came out of nothing (it only deals with life after life began), and that in actual fact is what you believe! You find it difficult to accept that complex life forms could evolve from basic life forms, but you find it easy to accept that complex life forms could be created by something even more complex - a god. Where did god come from? Something even more complex? And that even more complex thing? Inventing a god does not answer the question of where we came from - it makes the question more difficult to answer. How can you reject a concept that you're ignorant of? You're on the internet right now! You can learn about it whenever you like. Ignorance is no excuse. "Our Sun has already done just over 20 of it's orbits around the Milky Way and scientists say it has 31 orbits left until it is finished. No sooner and no later - "until a specified time". " Do you not see why people wouldn't be impressed by this? The Quran doesn't state when the sun would die. It's all very well saying the sun will die, but not say when - this is called covering your arse. If the sun dies, you're right - if it doesn't, you can say "well it will one day" and no one lives long enough to see that you were wrong. There is no way you can be proved wrong. "We are steadily expanding it" Who's this we? Admittedly, I don't know an awful lot about the Quran, but I do know the bible has roots in polytheism - "God has taken His place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods He holds judgement" - Psalms 82:1. Does the Quran, also? Also, it is not steadily expanding - the rate of expansion is accelerating. "I have read plenty of specifics and detailed descriptions in a few of the old books, but no I didn't expect them." Could I have an example, please? Why didn't you expect them? Isn't it supposed to be the word of god? Wouldn't you expect a book written or inspired by the supposed creator of everything to be a pretty amazing read? "I'm not sure how the existence of a massive universe could be used to argue that the universe wasn't created. Many religions talk about life across the universe." Religious people often believe that a god created the universe with us in mind, but the universe is almost entirely hostile to us. If you were to create a home for a hamster, say, would you put fire, spikes, poison in bear traps in there? Religions might well talk about life across the universe, but we know that very, very nearly all of space cannot support life - does this suggest a universe created for life? "They (lifeless planets) must be or once had been contributing something." This is what I mean - you're assuming there's a meaning or purpose to them when there's no good reason to. The universe is an accident. An amazing one, I grant you, but there really is no inherent purpose or meaning to it. "You'll be eating your words one day when science sways towards intelligent design!" No I won't! I'll happily admit I was wrong if intelligent design turns out to be fact (This is the main difference between science and religion. Science is only interested in learning about real life. Religion couldn't care less about learning - it's only interested in propagating ancient myths). There are two reasons that this will never happen, though. 1. God is unfalsifiable by definition - even if it did look like we and all animals were designed by a conscious entity, it is impossible to attribute this to a god because god is undetectable to our senses. It's almost as if it doesn't exist at all! 2. Unless you mean god created bacteria which in turn led to more complex life forms, then no, intelligent design as you imagine it has already been proven false. If you are really interested, just look up Endogenous Retroviruses (ERVs). "New branches of science are already starting to blow away the random mutation and 'intelligence magically inventing itself from inanimate matter' baloney." Tell me more about these new branches of science. Do you not even accept that random mutation happens? "Who is controlling who? I've never understood that point. Religions aren't supposed to have leaders, they are personal things." Religions use fear of the unknown to their own ends. Sometimes it's to make people behave a certain way, sometimes it's for financial gain. Religion doesn't care about real life - it only deals in things we cannot prove or disprove - fantasy and fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 To start off, I want to make it clear that I'm not picking on your, or any other, religion in particular. I think they're all nonsense. In this one sentence, you've said so much. You've admitted you reject the theory of evolution, and you've also admitted you don't know the first thing about it. Ironically, evolution doesn't state that anything came out of nothing (it only deals with life after life began), and that in actual fact is what you believe! You find it difficult to accept that complex life forms could evolve from basic life forms, but you find it easy to accept that complex life forms could be created by something even more complex - a god. Where did god come from? Something even more complex? And that even more complex thing? Inventing a god does not answer the question of where we came from - it makes the question more difficult to answer. How can you reject a concept that you're ignorant of? You're on the internet right now! You can learn about it whenever you like. Ignorance is no excuse. "Our Sun has already done just over 20 of it's orbits around the Milky Way and scientists say it has 31 orbits left until it is finished. No sooner and no later - "until a specified time". " Do you not see why people wouldn't be impressed by this? The Quran doesn't state when the sun would die. It's all very well saying the sun will die, but not say when - this is called covering your arse. If the sun dies, you're right - if it doesn't, you can say "well it will one day" and no one lives long enough to see that you were wrong. There is no way you can be proved wrong. "We are steadily expanding it" Who's this we? Admittedly, I don't know an awful lot about the Quran, but I do know the bible has roots in polytheism - "God has taken His place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods He holds judgement" - Psalms 82:1. Does the Quran, also? Also, it is not steadily expanding - the rate of expansion is accelerating. "I have read plenty of specifics and detailed descriptions in a few of the old books, but no I didn't expect them." Could I have an example, please? Why didn't you expect them? Isn't it supposed to be the word of god? Wouldn't you expect a book written or inspired by the supposed creator of everything to be a pretty amazing read? "I'm not sure how the existence of a massive universe could be used to argue that the universe wasn't created. Many religions talk about life across the universe." Religious people often believe that a god created the universe with us in mind, but the universe is almost entirely hostile to us. If you were to create a home for a hamster, say, would you put fire, spikes, poison in bear traps in there? Religions might well talk about life across the universe, but we know that very, very nearly all of space cannot support life - does this suggest a universe created for life? "They (lifeless planets) must be or once had been contributing something." This is what I mean - you're assuming there's a meaning or purpose to them when there's no good reason to. The universe is an accident. An amazing one, I grant you, but there really is no inherent purpose or meaning to it. "You'll be eating your words one day when science sways towards intelligent design!" No I won't! I'll happily admit I was wrong if intelligent design turns out to be fact (This is the main difference between science and religion. Science is only interested in learning about real life. Religion couldn't care less about learning - it's only interested in propagating ancient myths). There are two reasons that this will never happen, though. 1. God is unfalsifiable by definition - even if it did look like we and all animals were designed by a conscious entity, it is impossible to attribute this to a god because god is undetectable to our senses. It's almost as if it doesn't exist at all! 2. Unless you mean god created bacteria which in turn led to more complex life forms, then no, intelligent design as you imagine it has already been proven false. If you are really interested, just look up Endogenous Retroviruses (ERVs). "New branches of science are already starting to blow away the random mutation and 'intelligence magically inventing itself from inanimate matter' baloney." Tell me more about these new branches of science. Do you not even accept that random mutation happens? "Who is controlling who? I've never understood that point. Religions aren't supposed to have leaders, they are personal things." Religions use fear of the unknown to their own ends. Sometimes it's to make people behave a certain way, sometimes it's for financial gain. Religion doesn't care about real life - it only deals in things we cannot prove or disprove - fantasy and fiction. Not all religions behave the same way, religious doctrine varies for many, not all use fear, and many focus on real life and the community, and there positives to what some religions have achieved by bringing people together. Although I do agree with alot of your points, many religions or religious institutes are about assimilating mankind into a collective thought, based around maybe a book, doctrine or ideology!! WHatever anybody believes, aslong as they do not harm anybody or lie to convert or propagate there faith by false propaganda, I have no issues at all. The 2 big words are faith, and spirituality which mankind still has and longs for, as science yet does not have all the answers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zubi Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Could someone explain to me how the bit about Allah making man out of clay and the Jinn out of smoke is scientific? Also who/where are the Jinn? How do they fit into the standard model? Remember, when you lord said to the angels: "I am going to create man from clay". So when I have finished him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you shall fall down and prostrate to him." So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them. Except Iblis (Satan) He was proud and one of the disbelievers. Allah said "O Iblis (Satan)! What prevents you from prostrating yourself to one whom I created with both my hands. Are you too proud or are you one of the high exalted?" Iblis (Satan) said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and you created him from clay" (38 - 71:76) So yes God does mention man he created from man from clay, Nightgaurd mentioned man is created from carbon and their is no carbon in clay. Human organisms are made from Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Sulpher. Properties which are found in Clay of the Earth. And indeed, We created Man from dried clay of altered Mud. (15 - 26) Which would suggest clay with soil properties. The Jinns were a creation of God who were created before humans, who were unlike the angels as they were blessed with the ability of free thought, much like humans but yes made from a smokeless fire And the Jinn, we created aforetime from the smokless flame of fire (15 - 27) The word Jinn in Arabic comes from the root word meaning the unseen. So Muslims believe the Jinns exist within this Earth but they are not visible to the human eye. Only in some cases did they have extensive human contact. The most notible being with the Prophet of Allah Solomon. And there were gathered before Solomon his hosts of Jinns and Men, and birds, and they were all set in battle order (Marching forward) (27 - 17) Jinns were created for the same reason man has and that is to worship God, they like Man will be accounted for their deeds on the day of judgement and be rewarded with heaven or punished in hell. Reclining upon the couches lined with silk brocade, and the fruits of the two gardens will be near at hand. Then which of the favours of your lord will you both deny (Jinn and Men). Wherein both will be with Chaste females (wives) restraining their glances, desiring none but their husbands, with whom no man or jinn has had relations before them. (55 - 54:56) This is a pretty good video, if you get the time to watch it, it explains the basics about Jinns in Islam. the Deen show is quite good as it give non muslims a chance to learn about the basics of the topic. Plus Eddie rocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Remember, when you lord said to the angels: "I am going to create man from clay". So when I have finished him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you shall fall down and prostrate to him." So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them. Except Iblis (Satan) He was proud and one of the disbelievers. Allah said "O Iblis (Satan)! What prevents you from prostrating yourself to one whom I created with both my hands. Are you too proud or are you one of the high exalted?" Iblis (Satan) said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and you created him from clay" (38 - 71:76) So yes God does mention man he created from man from clay, Nightgaurd mentioned man is created from carbon and their is no carbon in clay. Human organisms are made from Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Sulpher. Properties which are found in Clay of the Earth. And indeed, We created Man from dried clay of altered Mud. (15 - 26) Which would suggest clay with soil properties. The Jinns were a creation of God who were created before humans, who were unlike the angels as they were blessed with the ability of free thought, much like humans but yes made from a smokeless fire And the Jinn, we created aforetime from the smokless flame of fire (15 - 27) The word Jinn in Arabic comes from the root word meaning the unseen. So Muslims believe the Jinns exist within this Earth but they are not visible to the human eye. Only in some cases did they have extensive human contact. The most notible being with the Prophet of Allah Solomon. And there were gathered before Solomon his hosts of Jinns and Men, and birds, and they were all set in battle order (Marching forward) (27 - 17) Jinns were created for the same reason man has and that is to worship God, they like Man will be accounted for their deeds on the day of judgement and be rewarded with heaven or punished in hell. Reclining upon the couches lined with silk brocade, and the fruits of the two gardens will be near at hand. Then which of the favours of your lord will you both deny (Jinn and Men). Wherein both will be with Chaste females (wives) restraining their glances, desiring none but their husbands, with whom no man or jinn has had relations before them. (55 - 54:56) This is a pretty good video, if you get the time to watch it, it explains the basics about Jinns in Islam. the Deen show is quite good as it give non muslims a chance to learn about the basics of the topic. Plus Eddie rocks! Zubi, Clay is mainly silicate (silicon based), which we are not, so that's just cock and bull!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zubi Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 I'm starting UAH - Unite Against Hate. We have a firm anti-EDL, anti-Religious Extremism, anti-homophobia, anti-anti-Semitism, and so on and so forth. Due to the very nature of our group, we will not have angry protests. Our protests will involve tea, biscuits, and a good ol' chinwag, all in the general vicinity of hateful happenings. If we can't stop hate with tea and biscuits what can? WHO'S WITH ME???? I'll join as long as the Nyan Cat is involved in some way Maybe the mascot or the organisations anthem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panky and our gang Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Just a quick question If God created man at what point did he start laying down the laws ? because man has been around an awfully long time before he could speak yet alone invent written work ? So who wrote the Bible and all the other fiction section law books ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st Century Fox Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Why was God so chatty and now he's giving us the cold shoulder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Why was God so chatty and now he's giving us the cold shoulder? He does, I am God!!!! I give you the cold shoulder cus you do not worship me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 So the important question - is it a flying spaghetti monster or a flying tagliatelle monster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AoWW Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 I'm sure he'll address this when he can. He's busy helping me move house at the moment. We're having such a laugh Pfft, shockingly poor comitment to the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Pfft, shockingly poor comitment to the cause. Shut up wench, your God is speaking now!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petchy Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Could have sworn this topic was about the EDL at one point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman's Wharfer Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 Why was God so chatty and now he's giving us the cold shoulder? God... must be.... a woman! We've cracked it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raj Posted 9 September 2011 Share Posted 9 September 2011 There we be a selection of teas (caff, decaff, those fancy ones which I always feel slightly uncomfortable drinking). There will also be a variety of coffees (a unknown area for me, it must be said). However, I forgot to mention the full name is UAHAR - Unite Against Hate And Raj. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.