21st Century Fox Posted 7 September 2011 Posted 7 September 2011 Don't give up so easily! Singh hasn't disproved or proved anything. There are verses relevant to science to be found in the Quran, you were right in the first place. The most obvious and simple one is this in my opinion : Chapter 51 Verse 47 "And the universe We Created with power and skill. And verily, We are steadily expanding it." Key words being 'power', 'skill', 'are' and 'expanding'. Luckily for Muslims, this verse has stood the test of time and scientists have discovered that the universe is actually expanding. And science also states that the universe was created with power i.e a giant explosion or big bang. As for 'skill', we only have to look at the perfection of the planets orbits, the timings of the orbits and rotations etc. etc. that are absolutely essential for any life to survive. If our planet span on it's axis any slower or faster than it does (about 1000mph) then all plant and animal life would be doomed and we would never have had the chance to create Hubble which showed us that the universe is expanding. That's skill, not some freak accident. Science has proved the verse to be correct in every way. But you could also say the universe is perfect because it made itself perfect by definition. What works, what survives and flourishes, does so because it is the only possible outcome of its environment and surroundings. The Blind Watchmaker theory over The Watchmaker Theory.
Rincewind Posted 7 September 2011 Posted 7 September 2011 So they are claiming the credit for all those natual chemical reactions and fusions. Will they also accept responsibility when the sun eventually dies and runs out of power, I just cant get my around that some being waves a hand then everything appears. That is not scientific. I suppose science is harder to understand and explain to small children. 'Where do babies come from Daddy?' A stork brings them. 'My tooth has fallen out Mummy. Never mind dear put it under your pillar and thetooth fairy with leave a shiny 10p for being a good girl.' How are rainbows made? Its all down to God who created everything.
Raw Dykes Posted 7 September 2011 Posted 7 September 2011 Don't give up so easily! Singh hasn't disproved or proved anything. There are verses relevant to science to be found in the Quran, you were right in the first place. The most obvious and simple one is this in my opinion : Chapter 51 Verse 47 "And the universe We Created with power and skill. And verily, We are steadily expanding it." Key words being 'power', 'skill', 'are' and 'expanding'. Luckily for Muslims, this verse has stood the test of time and scientists have discovered that the universe is actually expanding. And science also states that the universe was created with power i.e a giant explosion or big bang. As for 'skill', we only have to look at the perfection of the planets orbits, the timings of the orbits and rotations etc. etc. that are absolutely essential for any life to survive. If our planet span on it's axis any slower or faster than it does (about 1000mph) then all plant and animal life would be doomed and we would never have had the chance to create Hubble which showed us that the universe is expanding. That's skill, not some freak accident. Science has proved the verse to be correct in every way. Sorry, but this is rubbish. You hit the nail on the head when you said, "luckily" - It's just a case of throwing enough shit at a wall. That quote is so vague, it could mean anything. Just think, if there really is a god, and we really did have a book of his words, wouldn't you expect specifics? Wouldn't you expect some incredible detailed descriptions about things we couldn't possibly know yet? "If our planet span on it's axis any slower or faster than it does (about 1000mph) then all plant and animal life would be doomed.." So? What's your point? All you've said there is, "If things were different, then things would be different." Yes, they would, but they're not. So what? If you really think there's a god who created everything with us in mind, then how do you explain such a mind-bogglingly vast universe that is entirely uninhabitable to us, except for part of the surface of one tiny little rock? What would you say is the point of Venus, Saturn or any of the other possibly infinite number of planets that cannot support life? "Science has proved the verse to be correct in every way." Seriously? He [i.e. Zul-qarnain] followed, until he reached the setting of the sun. He found it set in a spring of murky water. (Surah XVIII ( Kahf) vs. 85-86) Whoever wrote the Qur'an believed the Earth was flat, and who can blame them? They lived in a time when mankind knew practically bugger all about the world. If you want to be religious, then that's your prerogative, but you can't kid yourself that it's in any way scientific. Maybe religion can offer hope or comfort to some, but I'm more interested in truth. I care that what I believe is actually true, and not how good it makes me feel. I think everyone can see what a sham all religion is if they only think about it for a while. Do you think religion cares more about the truth, or controlling people? Just ask yourself how you feel about any religion other than your own. Do you think Scientology, Wicca, Mormonism or the religions of the ancient Greeks or Egyptians have any basis in fact? If not, why not? How is your religion any different?
panky and our gang Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 Sorry to say but nothing you have said on this subject matters one iota . You will live and die a Muslim --Christian --atheist and your life will mean F ""ck all . You will not change a damn thing , that's why you are on the level of debating things of this magnitude on a Football site . Think about it and good night and If there is a God --bless.
zubi Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 I'm just so glad that Sikhism isn't a missionary faith, trying to convert others, otherwise people from my faith would be spouting shit like this. Didn't Sikhism arise from Hinduism and Islamic teachings Sorry that's not meant to offend you, that's what i've been told, you can elaborate if you want
zubi Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 Don't give up so easily! Singh hasn't disproved or proved anything. There are verses relevant to science to be found in the Quran, you were right in the first place. The most obvious and simple one is this in my opinion : Chapter 51 Verse 47 "And the universe We Created with power and skill. And verily, We are steadily expanding it." Key words being 'power', 'skill', 'are' and 'expanding'. Luckily for Muslims, this verse has stood the test of time and scientists have discovered that the universe is actually expanding. And science also states that the universe was created with power i.e a giant explosion or big bang. As for 'skill', we only have to look at the perfection of the planets orbits, the timings of the orbits and rotations etc. etc. that are absolutely essential for any life to survive. If our planet span on it's axis any slower or faster than it does (about 1000mph) then all plant and animal life would be doomed and we would never have had the chance to create Hubble which showed us that the universe is expanding. That's skill, not some freak accident. Science has proved the verse to be correct in every way. He debunked the scientists, I think? I still haven't researched that fully im taking his word for it But i'm sure other scientists studying embryology can confirm the shape of the embryo. Ofcourse there are a lot of scientific verses, I found this one quite interesting He has let loose the two seas, converging together, with a barrier between them they do not break through. (Qur'an, 55:19-20) Referring to the Mediterranean and Atlantic ocean. Lets see if anyone knows what this verse is referring too
zubi Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 He [i.e. Zul-qarnain] followed, until he reached the setting of the sun. He found it set in a spring of murky water. (Surah XVIII ( Kahf) vs. 85-86) Whoever wrote the Qur'an believed the Earth was flat, and who can blame them? They lived in a time when mankind knew practically bugger all about the world. If you want to be religious, then that's your prerogative, but you can't kid yourself that it's in any way scientific. So which "debunking" website did you pluck that one from If you read the "Tafsir" which is the explanation of the verses of the Qur'aan by the earliest scholars towards the time Islam was revealed, you will know that this means, he followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun's setting, which is the west of the earth. As for the idea of his reaching the place in the sky where the sun sets, this is something impossible, and the tales told by storytellers that he traveled so far to the west that the sun set behind him are not true at all. Most of these stories come from the myths of the People of the Book and the fabrications and lies of their heretics. Also when found the sun setting in the spring, this meant, he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something which everyone who goes to the coast can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed. Tafsir Ibn Kathir Next time you want read a verse that doesn't make sense to you, read the tafsir, it can help you debunk the debunkers And I don't know why you think that the Qur'aan believes the world to be flat
Raw Dykes Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 If you read the "Tafsir" which is the explanation of the verses of the Qur'aan by the earliest scholars towards the time Islam was revealed, you will know that this means, he followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun's setting, which is the west of the earth. As for the idea of his reaching the place in the sky where the sun sets, this is something impossible, and the tales told by storytellers that he traveled so far to the west that the sun set behind him are not true at all. Most of these stories come from the myths of the People of the Book and the fabrications and lies of their heretics. Also when found the sun setting in the spring, this meant, he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something which everyone who goes to the coast can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed. Tafsir Ibn Kathir Next time you want read a verse that doesn't make sense to you, read the tafsir, it can help you debunk the debunkers How can you know? If that's what they meant, why didn't they say that and save the confusion? If you can twist any sentence in the book to mean what you want it to mean, then I suppose it is all fact. However, you can do that with any book. Any sentence is true, then. I've been reading about the Tafsir, and it seems to me it's essentially an edit of the Quran. Isn't this an admission of errors? Why would a divinely inspired book need any revision at all? I really don't see how anyone could confuse a spring with an ocean.
Dr The Singh Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 Didn't Sikhism arise from Hinduism and Islamic teachings Sorry that's not meant to offend you, that's what i've been told, you can elaborate if you want There are similarities, but it has many unique concepts!!
Dr The Singh Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 Don't give up so easily! Singh hasn't disproved or proved anything. There are verses relevant to science to be found in the Quran, you were right in the first place. The most obvious and simple one is this in my opinion : Chapter 51 Verse 47 "And the universe We Created with power and skill. And verily, We are steadily expanding it." Key words being 'power', 'skill', 'are' and 'expanding'. Luckily for Muslims, this verse has stood the test of time and scientists have discovered that the universe is actually expanding. And science also states that the universe was created with power i.e a giant explosion or big bang. As for 'skill', we only have to look at the perfection of the planets orbits, the timings of the orbits and rotations etc. etc. that are absolutely essential for any life to survive. If our planet span on it's axis any slower or faster than it does (about 1000mph) then all plant and animal life would be doomed and we would never have had the chance to create Hubble which showed us that the universe is expanding. That's skill, not some freak accident. Science has proved the verse to be correct in every way. There's a big difference to being RELEVANT to Science, then being Scientific, so NO, he is wrong. There is nothing Scientific in the quran. power, skill, are expanding are statements that more likely describe my sexual prowess then the expansion of the universe in scientific terms! Quran does not mention, how , what or where, mentioning a single word, does not describe a whole event. You've just written the event yourself, you've described what skill is, not the quran, the quran doesn';t describe skill etc!!! Science hasn't proved anything in the quran, bible, gita's, torah's, or granths. Plus your making statements to say the quran is scientific, so shouldn't it be the other way around, verses\quran proved science o be correct, your actually sayin science is the word of god!!!! This is getting boring unless there's anybody on this site that can in scientific terms prove there religion has made scientific discoveries, as per scientific doctrine, principles and laws, I would like to hear it. It's embarrassing that religions use such statements, propaganda as means of portraying there religion as fact, and further recruiting, converting, and convincing people of there own faith!!
Rincewind Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 Is this in the Qu'aan? He picked uo an astoroid and threw it at the Earth wiping out the dinosaurs. or He waved his hand and ice appeared all over the surface of the planet. The Earth is still unstable but not s bad as it was a few million years ago. The inner crust is moving all the time which causes earthquakes. This is a scientific fact. It is also a fact that the sun will die out as thousands of other stars/suns have. These facts are based on years of study and calculation. These things do not happen as a single incidant instantly. The ice-age occurred over thousands of years and died out in the same way.
Houdini Logic Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 Sorry to say but nothing you have said on this subject matters one iota . You will live and die a Muslim --Christian --atheist and your life will mean F ""ck all . You will not change a damn thing , that's why you are on the level of debating things of this magnitude on a Football site . Think about it and good night and If there is a God --bless. Oh great, the only person joining my club of existentialist angst is Panky... marvelous....
danny. Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 Could someone explain to me how the bit about Allah making man out of clay and the Jinn out of smoke is scientific? Also who/where are the Jinn? How do they fit into the standard model?
danny. Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 Clay? apparently http://abdurrahman.org/qurantafseer/ibnkathir/ibnkathir_web/23.34787.html or tin it seems, I'm not sure which - maybe a muslim can explain it
Rincewind Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 can it be scientifically proven? Cos I thought we were carbon based and as far as I know there is no carbon in clay.. Were we moulded like in the Film Ghost?
danny. Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 Were we moulded like in the Film Ghost? No idea mate, there are also the Jinn which aren't human and were made from smoke (as I understand it). I don't really get it to be honest, just all sounds made up to me, but I'm sure someone will enlighten me as it must have a scientific basis.
Houdini Logic Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 I've heard we're all bastard children of the flying spaghetti monster and made up of 70% durum wheat and 30% ragu...
Charl91 Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 Oh great, the only person joining my club of existentialist angst is Panky... marvelous.... God is punishing you
danny. Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 I've heard we're all bastard children of the flying spaghetti monster and made up of 70% durum wheat and 30% ragu... Hail the FSM and his pirate children!
Charl91 Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 Hail the FSM and his pirate children! I was touched by his noodly appendage
Alexikokopops Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 I'm starting UAH - Unite Against Hate. We have a firm anti-EDL, anti-Religious Extremism, anti-homophobia, anti-anti-Semitism, and so on and so forth. Due to the very nature of our group, we will not have angry protests. Our protests will involve tea, biscuits, and a good ol' chinwag, all in the general vicinity of hateful happenings. If we can't stop hate with tea and biscuits what can? WHO'S WITH ME????
Webbo Posted 8 September 2011 Posted 8 September 2011 I'm starting UAH - Unite Against Hate. We have a firm anti-EDL, anti-Religious Extremism, anti-homophobia, anti-anti-Semitism, and so on and so forth. Due to the very nature of our group, we will not have angry protests. Our protests will involve tea, biscuits, and a good ol' chinwag, all in the general vicinity of hateful happenings. If we can't stop hate with tea and biscuits what can? WHO'S WITH ME???? Only if the tea is decaffinated. I might get carried away and roll my eyes.
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