The final Priminsterial debate

[purpleronnie]

I dunno, I always expect the labour voters to come out of the woodwork when it comes time.

[davieG]

Worse debate of the lot, so many of their answers were just repeated, it was crying out for some audience interaction and made worse by Dimbleby having to repeat the questions.

None of them deserve or look like Prime Ministerial candidates on that showing.

[Guest Bilo]

I dunno, I always expect the labour voters to come out of the woodwork when it comes time.

This is true but they do look the least likely of the three main parties to pick up the floating voters, and it's those floating voters who are most likely to be influenced by personalities. Brown's gaffe yesterday coupled with his poor showings in the debates will not have helped that one bit. Either way, it looks more and more likely we'll have a new PM by next Friday.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

If I had to pick a winner, I'd day Cameron just about sneaked home but it certainly wasn't as clear a win as either of Clegg's.

One thing is for certain though, Brown came a distant third tonight and overall in the three debates. Not a good week for Brown and Labour's already slim chances of a fourth term are probably done with now.

As I see it the only way Labour could even possibly win is if they somehow managed to oust Gordon and install someone like Harriet Harman (thinking female especially to attract the female vote) within the next week. That is not going to happen, so there will be a change in goverment - but it may well be the youth vote here that wins it for one of the other two parties (In terms of if they bother, and the fact that they would be less intrenched in a voting trend).

[FoxyPV]

The guardian has put Cameron as the winner of the debate - Were they watching the same debate as me? I thought Cameron was completely shite.

EDIT: not worth it

[breadandcheese]

Very very glad i watched the Fulham match instead.

[Guest]

Bullshit Brown.

"That's why we've banned unskilled workers from abroad"....Bull-Shit.

Are you confusing EU migrants with non-EU migrants?

The POINTS BASED SYSTEM means that unskilled workers from outside the EU cannot come and work in the UK.

For the umpteenth time....

Stopping unskilled workers entering from outside the EU, what about the Polish??

Creating jobs - How come unemployment is at an all time high?

Encouraging skilled immigrants - WE HAVE MILLIONS UNEMPLOYED YOU CVNT, WE DON'T NEED ANYONE ELSE

I don't know where you've been for the last few years, but Poland is part of the EU.

As for the skilled immigrants point, if there were people in the UK with the requisite skills to fill the roles, then they would be employed in them. We have this dichotomy where young people either go to university, and become overqualified for roles, or they drop out of education completely, therefore they don't go on to develop the skills needed.

I personally believe that rather than making university the be all and end all, more should be spent on vocational courses from the age of 14. Some kids just aren't academic, and rather than piling on pressure on them to pass GCSEs they have no interest in, schools should offer courses that will set them up to enter the workplace at 16 with the necessary skills. I also believe that more should be done to encourage businesses to look at apprenticeships.

Based on the above, immigration is not the reason for the current status quo, it is a solution to gaps in our system.

[l444ry]

Shame there are so many young voters who can't remember what the Tories were like. Prepare for a dose of the same if they winkle their way back into power.

[breadandcheese]

Shame there are so many young voters who can't remember what the Tories were like. Prepare for a dose of the same if they winkle their way back into power.

No need to be disingenuous. Whichever party forms the next government will have to take austere measures and make severe cuts, whether it's Labour, Tories or Lib Dem. The spending cuts by the three major parties make Thatcher look a free spender.

That's why i think a hung parliament may not actually be that bad, as it may result in a national unity type government with the ability to reduce the debt without political point scoring. It's going to need political consensus to achieve the necessary measures to rein in our public debt as there will no doubt be strikes and potential unrest.

[Flynny]

This debate was nowhere near as exciting as everyone had made their minds up who would 'win' beforehand and they all seemed better prepared to attack each other. Looking at it reasonably I thought it was a dead heat.

[Frenzied]

Brown is a stupid lying fat scottish arsehole.

He talks about:

Getting more young people in education - leaving uni with £20'000+ debt and no jobs available.

Stopping unskilled workers entering from outside the EU, what about the Polish??

Creating jobs - How come unemployment is at an all time high?

Encouraging skilled immigrants - WE HAVE MILLIONS UNEMPLOYED YOU CVNT, WE DON'T NEED ANYONE ELSE

Not taking money out of the economy - SO WHAT, BORROW EVEN MORE AND GET US IN FURTHER DEBT?

I would sacrifice my left bollock to see this guy killed in a freak milk float accident.

You make a good case for taking the vote away from some people.

Poland is in the EU

Unemployment is not at an all time high.

You need skilled people to fill the skilled jobs when there are not those people already in your country to fill them.

Take money out of the economy now and you will risk thousands of jobs.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Again a good one from Clegg, and a dreadful one from Brown.

Lib Dem for me.

[breadandcheese]

Take money out of the economy now and you will risk thousands of jobs.

Not necessarily. The money will still end up being taken out of the economy, either through our government spending less or paying more in interest payments to those prepared to lend to us.

[Benji]

I don't understand this "money out of the economy" argument.

Money isn't going into the economy, it's merely being moved from the private sector (NI payments of the employer and the employee, including public sector employees of course) to the public sector. This is where I think Cameron made a very valid point last night in that Brown is effectively branding the Public Sector as the economy.

If NI rise doesn't go ahead, the employer and the employee keeps the money, that gets spent on investment and jobs and the employee spends it on their lives. Spending the money you earn still puts the money into the economy, it still goes to businesses when you buy your shopping, pay your bills.

Money is not going out of the economy, the Conservatives just don't want to see it continuously wasted on the public sector.

[davieG]

I don't understand this "money out of the economy" argument.

Money isn't going into the economy, it's merely being moved from the private sector (NI payments of the employer and the employee, including public sector employees of course) to the public sector. This is where I think Cameron made a very valid point last night in that Brown is effectively branding the Public Sector as the economy.

If NI rise doesn't go ahead, the employer and the employee keeps the money, that gets spent on investment and jobs and the employee spends it on their lives. Spending the money you earn still puts the money into the economy, it still goes to businesses when you buy your shopping, pay your bills.

Money is not going out of the economy, the Conservatives just don't want to see it continuously wasted on the public sector.

There certainly needs to be less public sector spending however there's also a need to ensure profits are reinvested and not used to line the pockets of the very senior management and taken out of the business.

One of the big problems in business as I see it is the top guys running the business are paid partly in shares so have a vested interest in selling companies making a quick killing and moving on rather than sticking with them and improving them. The new owners then come in and start making cuts to reduce costs in order to get their investment back asap an so the cycle continues.

[Benji]

There certainly needs to be less public sector spending however there's also a need to ensure profits are reinvested and not used to line the pockets of the very senior management and taken out of the business.

One of the big problems in business as I see it is the top guys running the business are paid partly in shares so have a vested interest in selling companies making a quick killing and moving on rather than sticking with them and improving them. The new owners then come in and start making cuts to reduce costs in order to get their investment back asap an so the cycle continues.

Sure, and you'd have to be very naive to think the private sector is perfect, the need for a balance between the two is esstential. I agree with what you say regarding shares and that was one of the big contributors to banks in essence fking up. With banks in particular (for the reason that they often use the customers savings) those at the top should be paid a very generous wage, cut the shares and cut the bonuses to anything but long term targets. People still need incentives to get up in the morning, but there has to be a balance to prevent the risk. With regards to reinvesting money into the business and economy, that's something the next Government needs to address through law. The Companies Act 2006 pretty much governs everything business related at present and would be the best avenue of creating a balance between private enterprise wanting to succeed and profitise, but keeping to the "morals" of what the ordinary person might expect.

The problem at the minute is that the current Government have borrowed ridiculously outside their means, if the ordinary person on the street had built up a deficit relative to our Government's the bailiffs would have been knocking on the door a long time ago. They're now penalising the private sector and the average employee by increasing a tax on those that work and keep our economy running to prop up the failing public sector. If any person in the country earns some money and spends it, the money is still in the economy. Even if that employee saves that extra couple of pounds to go towards a house deposit in the future, its still in the economy. The difference between the parties is that Labour seem to believe that public spending IS the economy, which is utter tripe and an attempt to scare people into thinking the tories are rinsing the economy dry.

What amazes me though is how Labour can have the audacity to stand and argue how they've "got this country through the worst recession since the war" when they were a big contributor to its downfall. The man that stands in front of the TV and tells us he is the superman of our troubles is the same man that claimed as Chancellor he had found a way to rid this country of "boom and bust".

[BoneDog]

After watching and listening to the 'highlights' of the debates I despair. I think that whichever lot get power will only end up being as dishonourable and untruthful as all the others I remember.

Why can't normal people ever get these top jobs?!

[l444ry]

In 1974, Labour was elected because people were sick of the 3 day week under the Tories and thought Labour better able to control the unions.

Thatcher was elected in 1979 because Labour had failed to control the unions.

In 1997 new Labour was elected because people were sick of 3m unemployed and sleaze.

...In 2010 Cameron might be elected because he could look straight at the camera better than the other two,

Sad times indeed.

[Webbo]

...In 2010 Cameron might be elected because he could look straight at the camera better than the other two,

Sad times indeed.

Or maybe because the economy is in it's worse state ever during peacetime

[Matt]

Are you confusing EU migrants with non-EU migrants?

The POINTS BASED SYSTEM means that unskilled workers from outside the EU cannot come and work in the UK.

For the umpteenth time....

I don't know where you've been for the last few years, but Poland is part of the EU.

As for the skilled immigrants point, if there were people in the UK with the requisite skills to fill the roles, then they would be employed in them. We have this dichotomy where young people either go to university, and become overqualified for roles, or they drop out of education completely, therefore they don't go on to develop the skills needed.

I personally believe that rather than making university the be all and end all, more should be spent on vocational courses from the age of 14. Some kids just aren't academic, and rather than piling on pressure on them to pass GCSEs they have no interest in, schools should offer courses that will set them up to enter the workplace at 16 with the necessary skills. I also believe that more should be done to encourage businesses to look at apprenticeships.

Based on the above, immigration is not the reason for the current status quo, it is a solution to gaps in our system.

I see where this is going (Again - Although the reoccuring arguement we don't seem to meet eye to eye with hasn't be raised for a while)

In my experience I have worked with roughly between 20 and 25 (Probably more) people who are foreign worker the majority have been Poles, but also included other EU nationality's, the majority have been employed as Joiner's (Same occupation as me) around 10 to 15 of them I can tell you for a fact are not qualified they are employed soley on the fact they will do all the hours under the sun - Whether they acutally work all those hours they are at work is another question, 1) It's hard to believe they can keep a steady level of consistant work over the space those many hours and 2) When I left work at a certain time when I went back to work the next morning not alot of work had been done.

The reason they do all the hours in my first place of employment was because they had a house provided for them by the company - Not a nice way to live being couped up in a house with so many other people but living for free barr your food shopping, e.t.c not a bad deal? Also as they have not family to go home to is another reason they do all the hours.

At my current temporary employment there is only 1 Pole, he lives in his own house, and does the same amount of hours as us English folk, he is not qualified - From what I understand when asking him in my pigeon polish (He hardly speak any English - The odd word of English he does speak is getting worse).

Don't get me wrong I can see why company's employ them, I can understand why they come here but when there are English people out of work scrapping for work, doing temporary work like me, surely those people should be employed over unqualified EU workers.

And i'll agree with you on one thing - vocational courses from 14+, I always knew what I wanted to do since I was about 8, the sad thing is alot of people don't know what they want to do when they leave school at 16 so go to 6th form/uni toss it off, realised they don't like the course so quit, or finish the course then do something totally different to the course they have trained in, or do another uni course. I know one person who pisses me off so much, She went to uni finished the course, Didn't know what do do, Did another course at uni she didn't like so quit, she is now at uni AGAIN and is going to complete the course but isn't sure she wants to follow it up after, so she is going to New Zealand to do abit of travelling, she's 25 - 26 no career, no aim, no future, must be in debt to the eyeballs...I don't get it?!

[dandannieldanok]

Or maybe because the economy is in it's worse state ever during peacetime

We're not in peacetime though.