Fosse boys to be ejected - time to make a stand

[unreachable]

If you want an extra supporter of this group, enen though i don't know any of you, i am happy to help. You have a right to support the team ffs and sing, support the team how much you want. That's why you are in the stadium. The stewards of a bunch of effing fart smellers to the the least

Your post does not address the recent posts in this thread. What is your opinion?

[Fosse Boy]

Again, I agree with this.

You are very vocally asking to be allowed to stand. The club CANNOT publicly allow this to occur as it would go against regs. Can you not see the two are in direct conflict? Your situation differs from L1 because the club have essentially lost control there and have not publicly condoned their standing. You on the other hand, have (for lack of a better word) standing as part of your 'constitution' and as an organised group, the club simply cannot be seen to be allowing this.

I hope that's clear...

I don't see why not. If they allow it to go unchallenged in large areas of the ground and their stewarding team readily admit to this being allowed to happen (granted, I know you've said these are unofficial groups without constitutionally defined aims etc.) then maybe it is time for the club to get off the fence and take an official standpoint rather than to continue floundering in their present hypocrisy. Perhaps if more clubs did do this then the campaign for safe standing areas would be at a more advanced level than it is now.

[Wymsey]

Sorry i am involved in this but for you fans of that section to be ejected is plain stupid. Its not as if you are going to stand on the seats, make a bloody crack on the floor is it. People in L1 stand up and chant (saw that just after we scored on sat for example), so why not you lot. Bulls***. i hope i am not talking a lot of bull to you lot....

[Guest]

There isn't actually a law, per se preventing fans from standing. This lack of accuracy really does piss me off, although I am pedantic like that.

just out of interest, when the FB were being threatened with citizens arrests, on what grounds were the stewards claiming they were going to make them?

[unreachable]

I don't see why not. If they allow it to go unchallenged in large areas of the ground and their stewarding team readily admit to this being allowed to happen (granted, I know you've said these are unofficial groups without constitutionally defined aims etc.) then maybe it is time for the club to get off the fence and take an official standpoint rather than to continue floundering in their present hypocrisy. Perhaps if more clubs did do this then the campaign for safe standing areas would be at a more advanced level than it is now.

Drop the standing imperative and gradually improve the atmosphere in particular areas. The stated standing aim is the Achilles Heel of the Fosse Boys. Why not substitute standing as a campaigning aim not a right.

The Leicester Mercury are unlikely to offer support to a group which has standing as a right not an ultimate objective. You need to make your case to be taken seriously.

[unreachable]

There isn't actually a law, per se preventing fans from standing. This lack of accuracy really does piss me off, although I am pedantic like that.

just out of interest, when the FB were being threatened with citizens arrests, on what grounds were the stewards claiming they were going to make them?

I know we've crossed swords in the past but the general point is that a safety certificate has to be issued which would be breached if fans stood. Is this your point?

http://www.flaweb.org.uk/docs/licence/licence.php

"The primary purpose of the licensing scheme is to enforce the Government’s policy that all clubs in the FA Premier League and Football League Championship must have all-seated stadia and that any standing accommodation in Leagues 1 and 2 is of the prescribed standard"

[Fosse Boy]

Drop the standing imperative and gradually improve the atmosphere in particular areas. The stated standing aim is the Achilles Heel of the Fosse Boys. Why not substitute standing as a campaigning aim not a right.

The Leicester Mercury are unlikely to offer support to a group which has standing as a right not an ultimate objective. You need to make your case to be taken seriously.

Like I say though, the issue at hand is not our express aims as a group, rather taking to task the club's ambiguous policy with regards to how it treats those who wish to stand. We've got to force the club's hand on this and we won't do it by sitting down and accepting in the status quo in the vague hope that 'something' happens.

[unreachable]

Like I say though, the issue at hand is not our express aims as a group, rather taking to task the club's ambiguous policy with regards to how it treats those who wish to stand. We've got to force the club's hand on this and we won't do it by sitting down and accepting in the status quo in the vague hope that 'something' happens.

Your views seem very moderate compared with the views of some other Fosse Boys. How do you want the Leicester Mercury to assist your cause?

[sbfox]

There isn't actually a law, per se preventing fans from standing. This lack of accuracy really does piss me off, although I am pedantic like that.

just out of interest, when the FB were being threatened with citizens arrests, on what grounds were the stewards claiming they were going to make them?

You know as well as I do that it is a virtual certainty that those stewards trying to make a citizen's arrest did not have a clue about what they were talking about

[Lillehamring]

The Fosse Boys cannot and will not succeed until the law has changed allowing standing. By all means campaign for a change but until then I still don't understand how the Fosse Boys can succeed. You admit that the club cannot endorse standing so isn't there an impasse for the time being?

This is not a hostile post just a realistic post.

There are numerous clubs around the country that have successfully established Ultras groups, the York City (?) secretary even voluntered to speak to the bods at LCFC - this has fundamentally become an issue now of hypocracy and persecution, it's not about the 'laws' on standing, it's about equality and, most importantly, improving the football support of our club, to give young fans a reason to support LCFC rather than watch man U on sky.

success is relative, sure the FB are a long way from the Uwara reds, but right now, success would be simply being allowed in the kop, in SK1 the area that the club renamed to inspire groups like the FB to do what they are doing, to gather together and to sing, even if it means without 'persistant standing'.

i know you are curious, but you really should read the origiinal FB thread - there's so much in there and some awesome videos.

[Guest]

I know we've crossed swords in the past but the general point is that a safety certificate has to be issued which would be breached if fans stood. Is this your point?

http://www.flaweb.or...nce/licence.php

"The primary purpose of the licensing scheme is to enforce the Government's policy that all clubs in the FA Premier League and Football League Championship must have all-seated stadia and that any standing accommodation in Leagues 1 and 2 is of the prescribed standard"

Any legislation, albeit secondary and not primary as you've directed to, refers to all seater stadia. Nothing mentions standing. Standing, and persistent standing at that, forms part of ground regulations. Clubs draw up ground regulations to get safety certificates. Whether they impose them or not is discretionary. This is why people are getting frustrated in this thread.

If clubs decide to enforce rules on persistent standing, then fans have to be ejected according to the ground regulations, which means that the stewards have to do it. If there was any legislation that made standing an offence, then the police would have the power to eject fans. They don't. Where the police are called in to eject fans and standing is an issue, then it has to either be for breach of the peace, or some kind of public order offence.

Now this might be semantics as far as you're concerned, but standing at football grounds is not illegal.

[Fosse Boy]

Your views seem very moderate compared with the views of some other Fosse Boys. How do you want the Leicester Mercury to assist your cause?

I'm not sure about moderate to be honest. It's only last week that I walked out of Leeds' away end less than twenty minutes into the game in protest that a friend was ejected for standing up.

As with anything to do with our group, we've been geuninely overwhelmed by the support of ordinary fans and the media alike. We've no particular aims in terms of strategising how the press can help us, but their present stance of wanting to help in calling the club into account for their recent actions is obviously invaluable to us. As a group young in its existence we've sought help from the FSF on any major issues we've faced and continue to liaise regularly with them. The media may have a certain sway in terms of how it affects public opinion on an issue but the FSF are an organisation specifically designed to help supporters like ourselves in instances like this, so they will always be our first port of call.

[Guest]

You know as well as I do that it is a virtual certainty that those stewards trying to make a citizen's arrest did not have a clue about what they were talking about

Exactly. I would love to know on what basis they would be arresting fans however. I know for a fact they couldn't justify it.

[1964FOX]

Unreachable said

"The primary purpose of the licensing scheme is to enforce the Government’s policy that all clubs in the FA Premier League and Football League Championship must have all-seated stadia and that any standing accommodation in Leagues 1 and 2 is of the prescribed standard"

The requirement is too have all seated stadia, no requirement for clubs to force people to sit during the match. No laws banning it, no safety reasons preventing it. No requirement for the safety certificate to include enforcing people to sit. Guidelines only from FLA and football league to stop persistant standing. At the end of the day purely and simply down to the club. At present they feel we must sit to comply, we must convince them that's not true.

[unreachable]

There are numerous clubs around the country that have successfully established Ultras groups, the York City (?) secretary even voluntered to speak to the bods at LCFC - this has fundamentally become an issue now of hypocracy and persecution, it's not about the 'laws' on standing, it's about equality and, most importantly, improving the football support of our club, to give young fans a reason to support LCFC rather than watch man U on sky.

success is relative, sure the FB are a long way from the Uwara reds, but right now, success would be simply being allowed in the kop, in SK1 the area that the club renamed to inspire groups like the FB to do what they are doing, to gather together and to sing, even if it means without 'persistant standing'.

i know you are curious, but you really should read the origiinal FB thread - there's so much in there and some awesome videos.

Will the Fosse Boys really be happy to push the club into a strict enforcement of the Ground Regulations? It seems from Fosse Boy that if that happens then they will accept the position. Perhaps such an enforcement would be the downside of wanting equality.

[davieG]

Again, I agree with this.

You are very vocally asking to be allowed to stand. The club CANNOT publicly allow this to occur as it would go against regs. Can you not see the two are in direct conflict? Your situation differs from L1 because the club have essentially lost control there and have not publicly condoned their standing. You on the other hand, have (for lack of a better word) standing as part of your 'constitution' and as an organised group, the club simply cannot be seen to be allowing this.

I hope that's clear...

But they are publicly condoning it / turning a blind eye which ever you prefer. Everyone in the ground can see it, those watching on the TV can see it, away fans that visit go away knowing that at LCFC away fans can stand relatively freely.

If they'd have treated the Fosse Boys the same no one would have batted an eyelid they would have been viewed by outsiders and officials exactly the same.

But no the Fosse Boys went to the club to ensure them they were not looking for trouble were going to do everything within their power to avoid upsetting / inconveniencing other fans and would be specifically not targeting away fans and would therefore occupy an unoccupied corner of the ground - seemingly the club okayed this.

Yet went back on their words to target just this group, one has to question why and I can only think of one reason by going to meet the club they inadvertently let it be seen that they were in the main a group of young, naive, enthusiastic and trusting youngsters or to put it another way a nice soft target for the club which having failed with the Koppites, L1 and away fans now had someone to flex their muscles on. But even then they did it in the most cowardly underhand way with veiled threats over the phone apparently by third parties, by pretending the area was sold out and by physically preventing them entering the stadium to take up their legitimately purchased tickets.

The smell emanating from LCFC can probably be smelt nationwide and it's not the first time they've reneged on a group of fans as they treated N block in a very similar manner, I have nothing but contempt for them.

[Austin]

"One person with passion is better than forty people merely interested."

Keep going lads .. I couldn't afford a season ticket this year but attended Palace on the opening day and reading saturday gone, best of luck with your efforts this season, I'd love to join in with you, I'll look out for you lot when I'm next at the walkers

[unreachable]

Any legislation, albeit secondary and not primary as you've directed to, refers to all seater stadia. Nothing mentions standing. Standing, and persistent standing at that, forms part of ground regulations. Clubs draw up ground regulations to get safety certificates. Whether they impose them or not is discretionary. This is why people are getting frustrated in this thread.

If clubs decide to enforce rules on persistent standing, then fans have to be ejected according to the ground regulations, which means that the stewards have to do it. If there was any legislation that made standing an offence, then the police would have the power to eject fans. They don't. Where the police are called in to eject fans and standing is an issue, then it has to either be for breach of the peace, or some kind of public order offence.

Now this might be semantics as far as you're concerned, but standing at football grounds is not illegal.

Does the safety certificate for the Walkers Stadium refer to any requirement for fans to be seated?

[Jimmy]

My point is that by making the issue "high profile" this brings publicity to the issue which results in the club being put in the position of having publicly to take an "official" view.

By not consistently enforcing the Ground Regulations the club has made a rod for its own back. You might spoil it for those who now stand without being required to sit down.

It wil be interesting to see how the campaign develops but for people to expect the club to positively support the Fosse Boys that is pure fantasy.

every club in the country fails to properly enforce their ground regulations because every club in the country has a section where standing is tolerated

if the club start to enforce it proerly then its the Fosse boys that'll suffer as everyone else will turn on them and once they have been disbanded everyone else will be allowed to return to the status quo.

also to help your case get season tickets in those seats ...

[Lillehamring]

Will the Fosse Boys really be happy to push the club into a strict enforcement of the Ground Regulations? It seems from Fosse Boy that if that happens then they will accept the position. Perhaps such an enforcement would be the downside of wanting equality.

i wouldn't have thought so, no - i think they just want the flexibility the club demonstrates towards certain fans, to be directed towards themselves too.

i don't like the whole L1 style of singing, i want to see a kop bouncing up and down.

i'm sure when the club realise that safe standing will bring in new fans and more fans, they'll jump on the bandwagon, right now they're happy with the status quo, with L1 and whatnot standing - i beleive their problem with the fosse boys, is that it conflicts with the easy life they have at the moment.

at vålerenga games, the kop stands up all game, even on the stairs, even tho it is seated, and the stewarding is nothing compared to the walkers, and the club are scared to death of not having a sterile controlled crowd.

hopefully our new owners will do some research and see that this is normal throughout the world

[Lillehamring]

all this guff about 'ground regs' and 'condoning standing ' is such a load of tripe and totally immaterial.

yes standing is part of the culture and the long term hope, but before the reading game, the discussion in the FB thread was about sitting and singing, so the club could not do anything to eject them.

the club could not have known that the FB intended to stand throughout the match, and none of the discussion before the game suggested they would -

people - understand this is not about standing or not standing, or the whether the law or regs allow it, that's for the future - this is about the sick way the club have shat on its own paying fans, that for unsubstantiated unprovable reasons fans are being refused entry to support our team.

[Guest]

Does the safety certificate for the Walkers Stadium refer to any requirement for fans to be seated?

Why don't you ask somebody on the SAG?

[RobHawk]

Fosseboys keep on fighting!! It was never going to be easy and its important you dont fall at the first hurdle. Barclay thinks he can bully you so you give up, dont let him win. It is a war now! And you will have to be clever.

Create a mission statement, 2 sentences detailing who you are and what you do! Much like any business its a great way of explaining to people what your about.

Draw up a list of things you want from the club. (I dont just mean being allowed to stand) thing like all contact received from the club being in writing, that way they cant worm around what they have or haven't said, arrange a meeting, invite the press. Try and speak to people as high up as possible at the club.

My advice would be to play to your strengths but recognise your weaknesses and try to address them.

Strengths

99% of football fans agree with what you are doing. On top of this the issues you are facing are issues being faced by supportors at most clubs in this country. Strength in numbers is only wothwhile if you can prove your numbers. Start a petition against the club. While many people have emailed the club you have little idea how many people have supported you. Also get the message out to other fans on other discussion boards. Try and start a national campaign for something to be done in this country! Try and get ex players onside to join the campaing!

Weaknesses

Stereotypes - Alot of people will stereotype you as thugs and hooligans! look to move away from this by fundraising for charity or helping in the community! for example you meet in the pub before the game! If each of you chips in a quid every game, based on 50 of you by the end of the season you can donate a £1000 to charity. A good chance to get a pic in the paper and show everyone in Leicestershire what a positive thing you are doing. This gets alot of non football fans onside as well. The mayor of Leicester is supporting you! Use it!

Thats a general basis of what i would advise! I hope you guys continue because its a huge fail on the clubs part if the fosse boys die out.

[davieG]

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/City-s-Fosse-Boys-fear-ban-club/article-2585287-detail/article.html

By Laura Elvin

A group of diehard Foxes fans fear they could be permanently banned from the club after claiming they were turned away from Saturday's game.

Members of the Fosse Boys – about 50 supporters who are trying to crank up the atmosphere at the Walkers Stadium – say they were threatened with permanent bans and arrest at the game against Reading if they entered as a group.

It follows about 22 letters sent to the club from fellow fans complaining about noise made by the Fosse Boys at the first home game of the season against Middlesborough.

Many members of the group, who usually sing, chant, stand and wave flags from a section of the Kop (SK1), said they were refused entry on Saturday.

Dominic Manning of the Fosse Boys said: "We were told by stewards that as a group we are no longer welcome in the grounds.

"Apparently we are allowed in as individuals but if we try to come in as the Fosse Boys we could be totally banned or even arrested.

"It seems that the powers that be see us as a threat but I don't believe that we hinder the enjoyment of the match for anyone."

According to the Fosse Boys, about 20 members were refused entry, despite being allowed to buy tickets.

A Fosse Boys member, who wished to remain anonymous for fear of losing his season ticket, said: "A few of the group were allowed through but most were held outside and refused entry.

"If we have been banned for good as a group then Leicester City, the club, that my family has supported for many generations and that I have spent untold amounts of my time and money on following, will be able to count my support no longer."

Female member Deb Breward, 46, said: "We were made to sit down for the whole game when people sat right in front of us were allowed to stand unchallenged.

"We are a good-natured group of supporters who just want to cheer on our team – I'm nearly in my 50s for goodness' sake – I'm not there to cause trouble.

"Lots of my friends were denied entry. The club took their money off them, let them buy tickets and beer, but then turned them away at the gates just because they were wearing Fosse Boys scarves. What a joke."

Fosse Boys members who managed to get into the ground smuggled in a banner which read "Supporters Not Customers", which they unfurled at the end of the match.

Bystanders said they were consequently threatened by stewards with a citizens' arrest.

Amanda Jacks from the Football Supporters' Federation commended the supporters' efforts.

She said: "The Fosse Boys will continue to have our full support and we are very concerned at how Leicester City appear to be treating them.

"It's clear that they wanted to work with the club to bring atmosphere, colour and passion to the Walkers – not something that troublemakers or hooligans would do."

Leicester City did not respond to requests for a statement yesterday.

Previously a spokesman said: "We are pleased supporters want to improve the atmosphere within the stadium, but all supporters must adhere to the safety regulations in place to ensure a safe and enjoyable environment."

[Earlydoorsjones]

Apart from the bit about Bovril, that, sir, was a top first post.

I know that I got a bit carried away with the Bovril - too darn emotional. Spelt Foss (+ e) wrong too.