Jeff Bruma

[Haydos]

There's no point arguing with some of our fans. Theses are the same people who were defending Sousa. Nothing is ever the manager's fault.

That's bullshit for a start.

[Kitchandro]

I know, just frustrating when people can't find a middle ground and have to be ultra negative. Here is another little point...

Since Sven took charge QPR have taken 5 more points than us. We are currently 5 points outside the playoffs. So for us to have actually been in a playoff spot currently, we would have needed to match QPR's title winning form.

Do people really think that's a reasonable expectation of a manager taking over a team in the bottom three after 10 games? Yes we got into a good position, but to EXPECT us to keep up that kind of form just seems unrealistic to me.

Nobody (apart from couple of nutters) think he's not made any mistakes, and I'm sure the inclusion of new faces didn't help (his recent comments seem to show he's admitted this mistake). But that doesn't explain the loss of form of other players who were key when we were in form. The likes of King and Wellens haven't played well since the Man City games.

It's not all just down to a couple of players, no matter how much want to pin the blame on them.

Firstly, it's not all down to a couple of players. But some players have come in and done more harm than good. Of course Van Aanholt and Bruma are going to get stick. They've been crap. Whereas and King and Wellens have been immense at times this season (and btw, to say neither of them have played well since the Man City game is rubbish) so whilst they'll get criticised for individual performances, of course they aren't going to get slated like other players who have done badly on the whole. I think that's pretty straightforward to understand.

As for Sven, I never expected to get into the play-offs. But I didn't expect us to get relegated either, like some people obviously did. I honestly did expect us to be midtable once Sousa left.

But once we were a point or so outside the play-offs, our has dipped badly. This is for no other reason than we are not good enough. We've won about 2 games in 2 months. Having watched the games it is obvious we are short in quite a few areas. Some things are extremely obvious, and Sven doesn't seem to notice it. This, above else, is why fans are so frustrated.

If anyone calls for Sven to be sacked, then fine, call them a moron. But this is the first post by someone who's been defending Sven and calling the people who criticise him idiots, which I've actually seen acknowledge that he's made some mistakes.

[Babylon]

Everybody is behind Sven and wants him to succeed but whats wrong with a bit of criticism, not everybody is perfect.

But I don't think that is the case FT.

The main reason being these people have been like this since he walked through the door, the first little slip up in form and they were on his back (pre christmas). There is a select group who in my opinion do not like Sven (many by their own admission never have done), and they love every opportunity to put the knife in to him.

Reasonable critisism is fine, but this group just take it all too far and seem unable, or unwilling to see the good that has actually been done. They also seem unable or unwilling to take any notice of counter arguments.

Now someone like CC_star and I don't seem eye to eye, put us in a room and there would probably be a punch up. But I can admit the lad makes some very good points, but a bit like the Thracian of old, it just over steps the mark sometimes into the realms of needless and unwarranted critisism.

[Babylon]

There's no point arguing with some of our fans. Theses are the same people who were defending Sousa. Nothing is ever the manager's fault.

You've had a mare there.

I think you'll find Ric started a thread after about 4 games of Sousa saying he wanted rid. I posted in the same thread saying I agreed with everything he said, but I wasn't going to air those things on here after only a couple of games because it only adds to the negative vibes.

[Kitchandro]

You've had a mare there.

I think you'll find Ric started a thread after about 4 games of Sousa saying he wanted rid. I posted in the same thread saying I agreed with everything he said, but I wasn't going to air those things on here after only a couple of games because it only adds to the negative vibes.

Eh?

So did you post you agree or didn't you?

I do disticntly rememer us having a debate about Sousa. And I was definitely not in the 'give Sousa time' camp. The thing is, you talk about negative vibes, negative vibes to who? When your dismissive of everyone who criticises the manager, yes you give out negative vibes. To Leicester fans.

[Stevosevic]

If Sven was a northerner called Roy who had recently managed Hartlepool, a lot of the criticism wouldn't be thrown around.

[Haydos]

Eh?

So did you post you agree or didn't you?

I do disticntly rememer us having a debate about Sousa. And I was definitely not in the 'give Sousa time' camp. The thing is, you talk about negative vibes, negative vibes to who? When your dismissive of everyone who criticises the manager, yes you give out negative vibes. To Leicester fans.

Has he been dismissive of criticism?

I'm sure I've not seen many on here with unconditional love for Sven. I'm also sure I've seen Babs admit he's made a good few mistakes over the past couple of months when things looked so promising for us.

[Kitchandro]

Has he been dismissive of criticism?

I'm sure I've not seen many on here with unconditional love for Sven. I'm also sure I've seen Babs admit he's made a good few mistakes over the past couple of months when things looked so promising for us.

Yes.

And I think there are. And if he has I haven't seen them, until today.

Whenever someone criticises Sven on here there are a number of posters who take the piss, tell them to shut up, or make silly comments like 'what do you know, you're not a World Class manager who's managed England', etc.

[themotivator]

If Sven was a northerner called Roy who had recently managed Hartlepool, a lot of the criticism wouldn't be thrown around.

i think the correct internet term i am supposed to use here is "this"

[Babylon]

Firstly, it's not all down to a couple of players. But some players have come in and done more harm than good. Of course Van Aanholt and Bruma are going to get stick. They've been crap. Whereas and King and Wellens have been immense at times this season (and btw, to say neither of them have played well since the Man City game is rubbish) so whilst they'll get criticised for individual performances, of course they aren't going to get slated like other players who have done badly on the whole. I think that's pretty straightforward to understand.

You should tell some others then because quite a few people seem to believe it's all down to Bruma.

I'm not saying King or Wellens should be getting stick, my point is (that you missed) even the best players are not going to keep up the kind of form they were in during our great spell. Which is why it's not unreasonable for the team to go through a slump as well. (btw i'm not saying they have been bad in EVERY game, as I said the other day their good play has been fleeting.)

But once we were a point or so outside the play-offs, our has dipped badly. This is for no other reason than we are not good enough.

But you were using Leeds as some great yardstick earlier and we have outpointed them since Sven arrived. We've been on a bad run yes, but the overall picture still says since his arrival we HAVE been better than them.

If anyone calls for Sven to be sacked, then fine, call them a moron. But this is the first post by someone who's been defending Sven and calling the people who criticise him idiots, which I've actually seen acknowledge that he's made some mistakes.

Well you are wrong, I have moaned about some of his decisions eg. Weale being replaced, Bruma coming back in, not signing enough permanent transfers, being stubborn about playing people when not in form.. The difference being I make the point and move on, I would probably moan about him more but I seem to spend all my time defending him against people make silly comments.

Plus, on the whole I think he has done a lot more good than bad. There are things that need to improve of course, and thankfully I think his recent comments have shown he is learning.

I don't call everyone who moans at him an idiot, there have probably been 1000's of posts saying he should have done better that I have read without batting an eyelid. But if someone posts something so utterly ridiculous that only someone who is not quite right up top, then I'll tell them what I think of them and they can like it or lump it.

[Babylon]

Eh? So did you post you agree or didn't you?

I agreed with everything he said, except if I remember rightly that he should be sacked at that point (around game 3 or 4). I was worried about Sousa, massively worried, I wouldn't have agreed with him if I wasn't.

Before he was even appointed I said I didn't want him, after reading the Swansea boards talking about him he sounded awful. But once he was appointed, I always have, and always will give a manager a chance.

I think our discussion back then was around something like game 4/5. Now, for me that's a ridiculous number of games to be considering sacking a manager no matter what's going on on the pitch. Unless we're getting drubbings every game of course.

I will always give a minimum of 10-12 games, I'd prefer to give a manager 6 months in all honestly. But if things get to the point they did with Sousa (bottom of the league, transfer requests handed in) then you have to act.

When your dismissive of everyone who criticises the manager, yes you give out negative vibes. To Leicester fans.

I do not critisise EVERYONE who moans at the manager, only certain people who as I keep saying go a step too far, Or critisise them for things they haven't done. Eg. CC's continued insistence not long ago that Sven HAD spent £10m.

[Haydos]

Yes.

And I think there are. And if he has I haven't seen them, until today.

Whenever someone criticises Sven on here there are a number of posters who take the piss, tell them to shut up, or make silly comments like 'what do you know, you're not a World Class manager who's managed England', etc.

This does annoy me sometimes but It's often in only the most braindead cases that it happens. Kneejerk reactions to things that were fine week before (in the eyes of the poster) but are now an immediate concern to them.

The thought process of these posters/thread starters is generally in line with their sudden realisation that something is drastically wrong for some reason and therefore their argument is often poorly thought out or contradictory. This is when people jump to berate them. I've seen plenty of cases where people raise valid points and it opens a discussion but these are more often than not well presented and don't have massive flaws. For a fantastic example of this (it's irrelevant to the sven argument) see the opening post to this thread.

Feel free to call me on things, it's just my opinion on how this forum works. I think I often get tunnel vision when I make posts like these so correct me if i'm wrong.

[Babylon]

Yes.

Critisism, No.

Cristisism that is unwarranted, over the top, non factual, overly negative, Yes.

Whenever someone criticises Sven on here there are a number of posters who take the piss, tell them to shut up

But there are 100's/1000's of people on here who make observations and critisisms without getting any of that. Perhaps the little group that do get it should ask themselves why that might be?

[Kitchandro]

Critisism, No.

Cristisism that is unwarranted, over the top, non factual, overly negative, Yes.

But there are 100's/1000's of people on here who make observations and critisisms without getting any of that. Perhaps the little group that do get it should ask themselves why that might be?

Because you're mardy and intolerant? Because you'd rather be negative about your fellow fans than the manager/players?

[Babylon]

Because you're mardy and intolerant? Because you'd rather be negative about your fellow fans than the manager/players?

Perhaps you should ask the 100's of other posters who dish it out to them a lot more often than I do.

Personally, I'll be negative about anyone who I think deserves it. Whether it's manager, player, or fan.

[Kitchandro]

You should tell some others then because quite a few people seem to believe it's all down to Bruma.

I'm not saying King or Wellens should be getting stick, my point is (that you missed) even the best players are not going to keep up the kind of form they were in during our great spell. Which is why it's not unreasonable for the team to go through a slump as well. (btw i'm not saying they have been bad in EVERY game, as I said the other day their good play has been fleeting.)

But you were using Leeds as some great yardstick earlier and we have outpointed them since Sven arrived. We've been on a bad run yes, but the overall picture still says since his arrival we HAVE been better than them.

Well you are wrong, I have moaned about some of his decisions eg. Weale being replaced, Bruma coming back in, not signing enough permanent transfers, being stubborn about playing people when not in form.. The difference being I make the point and move on, I would probably moan about him more but I seem to spend all my time defending him against people make silly comments.

Plus, on the whole I think he has done a lot more good than bad. There are things that need to improve of course, and thankfully I think his recent comments have shown he is learning.

I don't call everyone who moans at him an idiot, there have probably been 1000's of posts saying he should have done better that I have read without batting an eyelid. But if someone posts something so utterly ridiculous that only someone who is not quite right up top, then I'll tell them what I think of them and they can like it or lump it.

But that's the thing isn't it, you seem to think a lot is utterly ridiculous. But apparently only when other people say it.

You may have been critical of Sven replacing Weale but you know you've got a problem when someone else says it. You always avoid the point - if someone says Ricardo's had mare, you must bring up occassions when Weale has had a mare, or be sarcastic. And I am not wrong about that. Maybe that particular person hasn't made that point before? Maybe they are frustrated because Sven continues to make the same mistakes? The same mistakes keep being made, of course people will keep going on about them.

With regards to you saying we have been better than Leeds since Sven arrived - we haven't been since the Derby game. Before that, we were playing some great stuff. Then certain players lost form and weren't dropped, certain players came in who weren't good enough, we started playing better teams and got found out and rolled over. Since then we've got worse. Before then, we were probably one of the best sides in the league. Remember, we went on a great unbeaten run before that. Before that Sven was trying to find some consistancy, then he found it through good management, then he made mistakes and we went downhill.

[Simmo86]

But that's the thing isn't it, you seem to think a lot is utterly ridiculous. But apparently only when other people say it.

You may have been critical of Sven replacing Weale but you know you've got a problem when someone else says it. You always avoid the point - if someone says Ricardo's had mare, you must bring up occassions when Weale has had a mare, or be sarcastic. And I am not wrong about that. Maybe that particular person hasn't made that point before? Maybe they are frustrated because Sven continues to make the same mistakes? The same mistakes keep being made, of course people will keep going on about them.

With regards to you saying we have been better than Leeds since Sven arrived - we haven't been since the Derby game. Before that, we were playing some great stuff. Then certain players lost form and weren't dropped, certain players came in who weren't good enough, we started playing better teams and got found out and rolled over. Since then we've got worse. Before then, we were probably one of the best sides in the league. Remember, we went on a great unbeaten run before that. Before that Sven was trying to find some consistancy, then he found it through good management, then he made mistakes and we went downhill.

Certain players that include King, Wellens and Bamba. But you weren't asking for them to be dropped!

[Kitchandro]

Certain players that include King, Wellens and Bamba. But you weren't asking for them to be dropped!

I was asking for King to be dropped a month or so ago. Sadly even if Wellens did warrant a dropping (he's had some bad performances but some good ones too) we don't have anyone on the bench to replace him with. Dropping both King and Wellens would leave us with Abe and Oakley, who have both been to inconsistant too. And we'd still have to change the formation.

Bamba, on recent performances he deserves to be dropped yes. But definitely not for Bruma.

[Babylon]

But that's the thing isn't it, you seem to think a lot is utterly ridiculous. But apparently only when other people say it.

You may have been critical of Sven replacing Weale but you know you've got a problem when someone else says it. You always avoid the point - if someone says Ricardo's had mare, you must bring up occassions when Weale has had a mare, or be sarcastic.

I have not once had a go at anyone for saying Sven should not have replaced Weale. I'd said myself from the start that I prefer weale in goal as Ricardo gives me kittens.

What I have said, is that Ricardo WAS NOT as bad as some people were making out.

That he WAS NOT responsible for everything that was going on.

That he WAS NOT the cause of our back line to become a shambles.

That in the 8/9 games he played he let in considerably LESS goals than Weale did in his last 8/9.

In goalkeeping terms there really wasn't much between them. They both have their weaknesses that can be exposed. But the witch hunt that followed Ricardo was an absolute disgrace. As i've said before, some people were blaming things on him that had nothing to do with him and that's out of order.

Moan at him for flapping, moan at him for not stopping a shot, but don't start making up reasons to have a go at the bloke. People were, and it was silly.

With regards to you saying we have been better than Leeds since Sven arrived - we haven't been since the Derby game.

No we haven't, but points are counted over a season not just when your team goes through a shitty patch. We've already touched on the rest so no point in repeating it.

[B52]

Yes.

And I think there are. And if he has I haven't seen them, until today.

Whenever someone criticises Sven on here there are a number of posters who take the piss, tell them to shut up, or make silly comments like 'what do you know, you're not a World Class manager who's managed England', etc.

I often defend Svens decisions and often rightly so.

The only thing we(me and Sven) seem to have different view of is Bruma...... Ricardo on the other hand is the best gk we have at the club for now and should play very game.

[Ric Flair]

There's no point arguing with some of our fans. Theses are the same people who were defending Sousa. Nothing is ever the manager's fault.

Wahahahaaaa! Please go back to August/September and read my posts. I was villified for my views on Sousa. It was clear as day the man was a mug and I was probably the first on here to really loathe the guy and want a change. With Sven though the evidence is clear, he's done a sterling job so far and all the statistics whow he's turned our form for relegation fodder to promotion chasers but we've just fell short. He needs to learn from the mistakes but ultimately he's been bang on.

[Babylon]

I was probably the first on here to really loathe the guy and want a change.

You were you bug bloody misery guts!!!!!

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Kitchandro has another arguement 'mare.

[Dames]

English fans have had a stick up thier arse about Sven since his days with England..

Everything he says or does that is even remotely wrong will get blown out of proportion by some people. Its going to be like this for as long as he's here, no matter how well he does in the eyes of some fans a 'young hungry english' manager would do a better job.