Corky Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 Waghorn's shooting is generally poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acooling08 Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 Waghorn's shooting is generally poor. I believe he got 12 goals for us last season. He hasn't been given a chance under Sven. Selling Waghorn would be a stupid move from Sven, but I guess he's made a few before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamN Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 Waghorn's shooting is generally poor. I know stats don't always tell the whole story, but, coupled with people's first hand views of his finishing, this does appear to be true... These are the goalscoring records of a few of our players, coupled with the amount of shots they've had. Took the stats from the Championship website, league and cup games both included. I've not included Gallagher in this because he's our penalty taker, which may skew the stats a little; Naughton - 15 shots, 5 goals - 1 goal every 3 shots King - 74 shots, 15 goals - 1 goal every 4.93 shots Yakubu - 38 shots, 7 goals - 1 goal every 5.43 shots Vassell - 18 shots, 3 goals - 1 goal every 6 shots Dyer - 51 shots, 5 goals - 1 goal every 10.2 shots Wellens - 42 shots, 4 goals - 1 goal every 10.5 shots Waghorn - 47 shots, 4 goals - 1 goal every 11.75 shots Now in the interest of balance, I will point out that Robbie Neilson has scored 1 goal with 1 shot (it's all he needs ), so like I say, the stats don't paint the full picture, but the fact is, Waghorn clearly hasn't been clinical enough to be forcing his way into the team as our main striker. Yes, you could argue that last season he had a decent scoring record, but Sven wasn't around then, and he's not going to base his team selection on how players have played in the past, but on how they're playing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B52 Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 He's been given limited chances this season and being a young lad will have fragile confidence. When he's full of confidence, his first touch is excellent. How many games do Waggy need to get "it" going? As you were talking about limited chances..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchandro Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 How many games do Waggy need to get "it" going? As you were talking about limited chances..... How many games or how many minutes? How many starts has Waggy had since Chrustmas? (and don't say we've had bwtter that's why he's not been playing, I seem to remember Bednar playing ahead of him for about 5 games, Yakubu and Vassell both playing for game after game when woefully out of form, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 I believe he got 12 goals for us last season. He hasn't been given a chance under Sven. Selling Waghorn would be a stupid move from Sven, but I guess he's made a few before. I'm not disputing that he did, he did very well for us last season, but I still think his shooting needs to be worked on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Padster Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 I know stats don't always tell the whole story, but, coupled with people's first hand views of his finishing, this does appear to be true... These are the goalscoring records of a few of our players, coupled with the amount of shots they've had. Took the stats from the Championship website, league and cup games both included. I've not included Gallagher in this because he's our penalty taker, which may skew the stats a little; Naughton - 15 shots, 5 goals - 1 goal every 3 shots King - 74 shots, 15 goals - 1 goal every 4.93 shots Yakubu - 38 shots, 7 goals - 1 goal every 5.43 shots Vassell - 18 shots, 3 goals - 1 goal every 6 shots Dyer - 51 shots, 5 goals - 1 goal every 10.2 shots Wellens - 42 shots, 4 goals - 1 goal every 10.5 shots Waghorn - 47 shots, 4 goals - 1 goal every 11.75 shots Now in the interest of balance, I will point out that Robbie Neilson has scored 1 goal with 1 shot (it's all he needs ), so like I say, the stats don't paint the full picture, but the fact is, Waghorn clearly hasn't been clinical enough to be forcing his way into the team as our main striker. Yes, you could argue that last season he had a decent scoring record, but Sven wasn't around then, and he's not going to base his team selection on how players have played in the past, but on how they're playing now. Interesting, kinda proves B52s point about Vassell not being employed as a 'goalscorer' with only 18 shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphericalfox Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 The answer to this question is simple. No. Waghorn had one advantage going for him last season that he did not this one. Whilst he was not getting regular games either last year, he had one thing going for him. He could play in the reserves and was doing well,( if I recall incorrectly - happy to be put right), thus making his mark when given the chance in the first team. As this has been terribly absent this season none of our second team have been really up to scratch and biting at the bit to either force their way into the team, or when there has been injuries make much of a mark when called upon to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 How many games or how many minutes? How many starts has Waggy had since Chrustmas? (and don't say we've had bwtter that's why he's not been playing, I seem to remember Bednar playing ahead of him for about 5 games, Yakubu and Vassell both playing for game after game when woefully out of form, etc.) I agree entirely... What on earth were we playing bender for and not giving waghorn game time? It's beyond me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B52 Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 How many games or how many minutes? How many starts has Waggy had since Chrustmas? (and don't say we've had bwtter that's why he's not been playing, I seem to remember Bednar playing ahead of him for about 5 games, Yakubu and Vassell both playing for game after game when woefully out of form, etc.) Waggy started in 11 games under september to mid november. I think that's enough to get "it" going. But "it" didn't come and instead we got Bednar. If Waggy had been better we could have avoided Bednar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchandro Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 Waggy started in 11 games under september to mid november. I think that's enough to get "it" going. But "it" didn't come and instead we got Bednar. If Waggy had been better we could have avoided Bednar. At that point he was out of form and deserved to be dropped. However since then he's been pretty much shunned. I said since Christmas, how many starts has he had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B52 Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 At that point he was out of form and deserved to be dropped. However since then he's been pretty much shunned. I said since Christmas, how many starts has he had? Well Yak and Vassell is better than him so for me it's an easy choice. You can always find some energetic performances from Waggy but that's not enough. By the way, are you ready to give Waggy another eleven games too see if he still is out of form or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchandro Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 Well Yak and Vassell is better than him so for me it's an easy choice. You can always find some energetic performances from Waggy but that's not enough. By the way, are you ready to give Waggy another eleven games too see if he still is out of form or not? For you maybe, I think that's very debateable, certainly in the case of Vassell. And another 11 games when there's only 4 games left would be difficult...I would have started him 1 or 2 months ago when, as I said, I would have dropped either Vassell or Yakubu who were woefully out of form and frustratingly contributing very little. In any case I would keep him as he will be useful to us next season, and he will only improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B52 Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 In any case I would keep him as he will be useful to us next season, and he will only improve. This is very agreeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 Hull fan here, a few things. Waghorn's name has come up in the odd romour mill along with us to buying Hobbs, I was actually at the game on Saturday against Donny, have to say Hobbs was brilliant and has played a vital part in us defending leads when we has come on as a sub or has started, Matty was a different class. He could have scored 4or5 on another day but the Donny keeper made some very good saves. He really is a hard working striker. Thankgod Leicester sold him. Also Moussa was very impressve, to watch him run his arse off and then watch the footy league show I can safely say Leicester could have done with him. We had family up from stoneygate. Obviously them being Leicester fans who have previously met Hobbs at your matches they wanted to wait after to see him. I have to say he was very polite and was signing and having photo's taken for some time. Anyway, my cousin had a number of questions for him. Regarding the 'Hobbs didn't want to play for us' comment I think you should ask the lad himself as he had no idea he was going on loan until the Celtic situation came about. He didn't want to leave but he did say he is young and clearly wants to play. He didn't say much other than he will have to wait and see what Leicester want him to do in the summer but I don't think he had a choice. He's also played in his correct position - I hear he played out of place all season upto his first start with us. What would you do, sit on someones bench or go out and earn your money? Personally I like his attitude and after reading Chris Powells interview when Hobbs joined it's refreshing to hear how much a young player puts in and he said he's never come across such a young professional in all his years and he was delighted Hobbs was back working with Pearson, it's players like that under a very good manager that has got our team where they are. I didn't think Pearson was the right man at first but he's building and we are happy to have him. Back to the topic, sorry I got on one then. Do you think Waggy would work well along side Fryatt? I understant he's from Newcastle so this would be closer to home and what price do you think he is honestly worth cos my cousins havent rated him at all. We do need another goal scorer and I'm pretty sure that will be top of Pearson's shopping list if we mange to tie down Gerrard and Hobbs. He didn't seem to know what was going on even though he just bought a house there so can you see him returning because 'Bombscare Bamba and Bruma' as they are know to by my family don't look too good at the moment. I had you on for going up but now I'm not so sure. Has any other clubs been linked with Waggy other than Derby? Also I've been impressed with NP's loan signings, have you been happy with yours? - If i had to pick one phrase to decribe fryatt it would not be hard working, granted he puts in more effort than yakubu but he misses far too many easy chances. Moussa is a good prospect and i hope he's going to have a good future here, possibly the only good signing sousa made. As for a waggy + fryatt partnership - no, while waghorn is capable of putting himself about a bit and could probably play well as a lone striker or along side a little man like fryatt, Fryatt is too reliant on having a big man along side him (such as steve howard) - he can't play as a lone striker, nor a wing striker or as part of a small front two - only as part of the old big man - little man style partnership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miquel The Work Geordie Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 If a seven figure offer comes in, he has to be sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accessory Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 If a seven figure offer comes in, he has to be sold. No he doesn't.. Exactly how would that encourage summer transfer targets to sign for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accessory Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 The answer to this question is simple. No. Waghorn had one advantage going for him last season that he did not this one. Whilst he was not getting regular games either last year, he had one thing going for him. He could play in the reserves and was doing well,( if I recall incorrectly - happy to be put right), thus making his mark when given the chance in the first team. No, we didn't have a reserve team last season either.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miquel The Work Geordie Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 No he doesn't.. Exactly how would that encourage summer transfer targets to sign for us? They'd see we're ambitious by getting rid of players that aren't good enough (unfortunately). Can't fault Waghorn's effort or work rate, but his finishing is abysmal sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchandro Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 They'd see we're ambitious by getting rid of players that aren't good enough (unfortunately). Can't fault Waghorn's effort or work rate, but his finishing is abysmal sometimes. But a lot of people do think he's good enough. A lot of our fans think he's good enough. Sven obviously has a higher opinion of him than you do, he didn't want him to go out on loan. You talk about him like he's Neilson or someone like that. He's not a hot potato and he won't hinder our chances of promotion. Why not keep him for a bit longer and see if he fulfills his potential? I really don't see how you can write him off like he's Junior Lewis. Crazily offloading players is rash. TBH, whatever you think of Fryatt we should have got a lot more than £1.2 million for him, and we'll probably offload Hobbs on the cheap too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miquel The Work Geordie Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 But a lot of people do think he's good enough. A lot of our fans think he's good enough. Sven obviously has a higher opinion of him than you do, he didn't want him to go out on loan. You talk about him like he's Neilson or someone like that. He's not a hot potato and he won't hinder our chances of promotion. Why not keep him for a bit longer and see if he fulfills his potential? I really don't see how you can write him off like he's Junior Lewis. Crazily offloading players is rash. TBH, whatever you think of Fryatt we should have got a lot more than £1.2 million for him, and we'll probably offload Hobbs on the cheap too. - a) Sven didn't let him go out on loan because of an injury to Vassell. - b) Playing someone of Waghorn's current ability up front, if there are better alternatives available to us, most certainly IS hindering our chances of promotion, is it not? His finishing and composure in front of goal really does leave a lot to be desired, I can't be the only one that thinks that. - c) It's not a case of 'crazily off loading' players, it's a case of right price - deal done. Especially when the offer tabled benefits us so favourably. - d) We COULD keep him for longer and MAYBE he'll develop rapidly, but it won't be a risk the Thais, nor Sven, will be willing to take just yet. Right now, top tier football is the aim, then development. If anything, any talent Waghorn has would be stifled here should he stay, I can't see him getting a look in. I can see Sven going for a lot of players that're ready made to dick this league as a priority over seeking out potential talent. I don't dislike Waghorn by any means, he seems to have a cracking attitude and is still very much an unpolished diamond, however much like Hobbs, I feel his future lies elsewhere. It's a shame, but it's football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchandro Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 - a) Sven didn't let him go out on loan because of an injury to Vassell. - b) Playing someone of Waghorn's current ability up front, if there are better alternatives available to us, most certainly IS hindering our chances of promotion, is it not? His finishing and composure in front of goal really does leave a lot to be desired, I can't be the only one that thinks that. - c) It's not a case of 'crazily off loading' players, it's a case of right price - deal done. Especially when the offer tabled benefits us so favourably. - d) We COULD keep him for longer and MAYBE he'll develop rapidly, but it won't be a risk the Thais, nor Sven, will be willing to take just yet. Right now, top tier football is the aim, then development. If anything, any talent Waghorn has would be stifled here should he stay, I can't see him getting a look in. I can see Sven going for a lot of players that're ready made to dick this league as a priority over seeking out potential talent. I don't dislike Waghorn by any means, he seems to have a cracking attitude and is still very much an unpolished diamond, however much like Hobbs, I feel his future lies elsewhere. It's a shame, but it's football. Ifs and buts Michael. You could argue Yakubu and Vassell have been better, I could argue different. But it is certainly not clear cut that they have been, there have been differing opinions. Certainly neither have 'dicked this League', though Yakubu has shown glimpses that he might, then flattered to decieve. IF we have better options, of course, play them. However what I see in Waggy is a young lad with lots of potential. There is nothing wrong with having a player like that in your squad, especially if he can come off the bench and offer something like he has at times this season. Strength in depth is afterall, vital for a promotion side. Like I said, 5 minutes against Bristol City and he undoubtedly was the difference between wiining and drawing. Granted, he doesn't do that every time, but he has the potential to do it. I think it would be a terrible waste to let him go at this point. Look at Gradel. There's no doubt he had his limitations when he was with us. But we let him go too soon (I know it was because he didn't get on with Pearson, but the point still stands) and now he is fulfilling his potential. You cannot be sure Waggy will not do the same, especially when his debut Championship season was so impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBleedLeicesterColours Posted 21 April 2011 Share Posted 21 April 2011 I think he has unfinished business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 22 April 2011 Share Posted 22 April 2011 If a seven figure offer comes in, he has to be sold. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphericalfox Posted 22 April 2011 Share Posted 22 April 2011 No, we didn't have a reserve team last season either.. Sheet. That'll be the reason we didn't win the playoffs then...My memory has deteriorated! Well my point regarding the availability of a reserve team to boost confidence and a degree of sharpness still stands. Waghorn needs to start putting them away in a less pressured environment. Should he not then Sven is of course within his rights to look elsewhere, and if he finds someone then maybe selling him to someone other than Burton Albion pt2 would be better for the young lads career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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