Death Penalty

[Thracian]

It'll be an achievement if City fans can conjure up a solution to this multi-millennia problem in a few hours of summertime debate but here's my twopenn'orth.

One of the enduring problems with the Bible are quotes like "An eve for an eye" alongside such opposites as "vengeance is mine saith the Lord" and, even more emphatic, the Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill".

Being a Commandment this seems pretty unambiguous for a Christian (and other religions where the same requirement is truthfully demanded but is bastardised by the false interpretations of earthly opportunists).

Anyway, IF you are a Christian and therefore a believer in the "Not Kill" Commandment the need is to agree on an alternative solution for dealing with those who pose the greatest threat to our peace and way of living (murderers, armed robbers etc).

You can't go to War in Iraq for a start (at least not with the implied object of killing folk) and that would have applied to Germany and all sorts of other theatres where we have had a vigorous presence.

It's not easy for a Christian to avoid hypocrisy, is it?.

Probably the best way forward (if we remain a Christian country, which seems doubtful) is to have various forms of penal servitude depending on the seriousness of the crime.

This, punctuated with well thought out censure for non co-operation - would place the emphasis on repaying society for crime committed.

Indeed, the perpetrator, rather than the state, should always pay and be seen to pay for attacks on society either in labour, cash, property or a combination of all three.

In the case therefore of an unprovoked, pre-meditated murder a guilty man would be locked up in isolation and made to earn his food and drink with specified work. The sentence would only moderate with good behaviour, he would be treated gently and given some opportunity for education.

If he refused to work or co-operate food and/or shelter would be denied and if he chose to go on hunger strike he would be allowed to die, this being his choice.

He would be allowed proper physical exercise and might earn longer time in the library with a co-operative and hard-working attitude. His daily meals would reflect his efforts.

[Guest]

No, simply because once the offender is dead, that's it; where's the punishment, we all die at some point.  Yet the victims, and/or their familes have to live with the consequences.

I would make prison more of a deterrent than what it is now.  Take away the privileges that offenders get.  If they have turned over a new leaf, and want to train for a career, do it after the sentence is complete, and not at my expense.  TV's in cells?  I don't think so.

You used to have to pay towards your incarceration; cruel, but fair if you ask me.

123879[/snapback]

Surely cruelty is never fair?

123897[/snapback]

Cruel to be kind?

[Guest]

No, simply because once the offender is dead, that's it; where's the punishment, we all die at some point.  Yet the victims, and/or their familes have to live with the consequences.

I would make prison more of a deterrent than what it is now.  Take away the privileges that offenders get.  If they have turned over a new leaf, and want to train for a career, do it after the sentence is complete, and not at my expense.  TV's in cells?  I don't think so.

You used to have to pay towards your incarceration; cruel, but fair if you ask me.

123879[/snapback]

the loss of prisoners freedom is supposed to be the punishment and there after prison is supposed to reform them. i would prefer someone who had 'turned over a new leaf' to receive an education in prison and at least they have something to use when they are released.

123983[/snapback]

For every prisoner who makes that change, there are numerous others who will end up reoffending. I'd rather not be discriminatory, and treat them all the same rather than showing favouritism. If you really do want to change, you'll do it regardless.

[Teeno]

I would be in favour of the death penalty although there is a possibility people could be innocent but still sentenced to death. I think it should be used for cases like Shipman, Husein etc

However I don't think the thought of going in prison deters people, they have a lot of privileges and imo it is like the big brother house without cameras. Sentences aren't long enough and they have a stress free enjoyable life inside.

[stez]

i never have been in favour of it, and the murdering of mentally ill people does nothing to change my opinion.

[Head Honcho]

no, we shouldn't have it because taking a life is never right. whoever takes it.

consistent prison sentences would help though

Would help what?

They're pretty consistent in the US and to no avail!

[Katy]

i never have been in favour of it, and the murdering of mentally ill people does nothing to change my opinion.

[Solihullfox]

i never have been in favour of it, and the murdering of mentally ill people does nothing to change my opinion.

Agreed and the verbal platitudes issued forth from our government does little to change my opinion of the career politicians who share their "disgust" at the actions of the Chinese whilst ensuring they don't step too far over the mark that just might threaten the 2 billion export trade between the UK and China. Shameful

[Head Honcho]

i never have been in favour of it, and the murdering of mentally ill people does nothing to change my opinion.

I'm pretty sure the guy has never been diagnosed as being mentally unstable and there was never any mention of his bi polar before he was caught drug smuggling.

So what is this now an acceptable form of defence for all drug smugglers?

[Katy]

I'm pretty sure the guy has never been diagnosed as being mentally unstable and there was never any mention of his bi polar before he was caught drug smuggling.

So what is this now an acceptable form of defence for all drug smugglers?

That makes for a good argument.

[stez]

Would help what?

They're pretty consistent in the US and to no avail!

i dunno, i said all that years ago, who knows what was on my mind at the time.

[Head Honcho]

i dunno, i said all that years ago, who knows what was on my mind at the time.

[stez]

I'm pretty sure the guy has never been diagnosed as being mentally unstable and there was never any mention of his bi polar before he was caught drug smuggling.

So what is this now an acceptable form of defence for all drug smugglers?

oh you've changed my mind with a strong argument like that. lets kill people for throwing remote controls at their wife too shall we?

[Suffolk_fox]

oh you've changed my mind with a strong argument like that. lets kill people for throwing remote controls at their wife too shall we?

I too read that there was no mention of "mental illness" by his defence team at his trial - but once he was sentenced, his family remembered that he was bi-polar....

Rather remiss of them I think.

One less guilty drug smuggler I guess....

[Head Honcho]

oh you've changed my mind with a strong argument like that. lets kill people for throwing remote controls at their wife too shall we?

I'm not saying I agree with the death penalty in fact I'm indifferent on the subject but would this guy have had the same media coverage and governmental support if he'd been sentenced to life imprisonment for his crime? I somehow doubt it.

Our troops are being blown up in Afghanistan trying to stem the flow of heroin and I find it fooking hypocritical of our government to have any kind of defence for a drug smuggler.

[stez]

makes no odds now, as he's dead, but i would assume/hope that if a country had the death penalty they would make sure the sentencee was of sound mind, whether his/her family were going on about it or not, before they killed them

[Father Ted]

What's with the *Guest* Freund thing?

[lavrentis]

What's with the *Guest* Freund thing?

His account got deleted, dont know why

[Zingari]

I think we would all at some point reach a stage where we feel the death penalty is appropriate , it's just at what stage we eventually reach it

How many of us would have argued against death sentences for the architects of the Holocaust that were tried and executed at Nuremburg ?

And how many would secretely turn a blind eye (or even relish) torture and even murder by fellow inmates for particularly evil criminals ? We can be quite hypocritical sometimes and I include myself

I believe the Lisbon treaty has a clause in it to allow for the death penalty for cases of "war, riots, upheaval " .

Whatever that is supposed to mean ,( it's sounds very NWO to me )

Interesting ( not sure why though )that China is resposible for about 75% of the worlds executions , perhaps someone could deduce some interesting facts from this .

edit ;

just realised this thread is over 4 years old

anyone who had committed murder then might be out by now

[Asha]

I don't think drug smuggling should warrant a death penalty anyway.

[Suffolk_fox]

I don't think drug smuggling should warrant a death penalty anyway.

A murderer could be responsible for the death of just one person.

A drug smuggler could be responsible for the death of many. Add to this the magnified impact of their families and you will see why the death penalty should apply to drug smugglers.

On another note: What right have we to tell another country that they are wrong for having the death penalty? Who the hell gave us the moral high ground? If France had a go at us for how we dealt with a French National, there would be an outcry.

This country, and the people that choose to live here are in great peril because we don't keep our nose out of the affairs of other countries.

[Guest Mee-9]

I don't think drug smuggling should warrant a death penalty anyway.

It shouldn't. It is debatable, If he would of bought drugs into England, could of made him a murderer. He could of sold the drugs to teenagers, they could of had a bad reaction, ended up in hospital and maybe died.

Mum's a nurse, and she was telling us about how on Bonfire night, the ward she works on had to pump 27 Ecstacy tablets out of a 14 year old girls body, her and her mate had been at Zanzibar, on like a kids night. They both died the next day.

[Fox92]

I think we should have it back.

[davieG]

Putting aside the possibility of his mental capabilities and whether he was duped as I understand he did have a trial and thus assuming he was of sound mind then it seems to me if you choose to commit a crime in another country then you have to be prepared to face the consequences irrespective of whether you believe in capital punishment.

There's a guy in the Merc today pleading for clemency, who is living in Thailand who got a 29 year sentence in 2003 for possessing drugs (.7oz of marijuana, several amphetamines and ecstasy tablets and .8oz of heroin) which he sites as a trivial crime.

From the report it seems he was living a good life running a restaurant and a tourist boat thus taking advantage of Thai lifestyle. Well if he was happy to do that then he should accept the consequences of the crime he committed in a country where they don't consider it to be trivial.

Living there he should have been aware of the severity of the punishment for possessing these drugs, he made his choice now he should accept his punishment and be grateful he's not got a death sentence.

[DB11]

I've done an ICT (in favour of it), Humanities (mainly against it) and now I'm currently doing English Language (a debate for / against) coursework on this topic. I can see both sides and can argue both points now too.