Mystery of WTC 7 - Conspiracy

[Zingari]

Well you've been pretty adamant that the official story is a load of pap. You've clearly stated it wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon and that WTC 7 was brought down with a controlled demolition. For someone with "no idea" you argue pretty vociferously that the official line is lies; again, for someone with "no idea" you dismiss every piece of evidence that supports the official story out of hand. To me, as i'm sure it does to many, it appears that your mind is very much made up.

I started watching and as soon as they started talking about altering altitudes and hypothetical scenarios, I turned off. It's psychobabble in the extreme. Anyway, who are these pilots? Commercial pilots? or more likely some sad acts with a PPL that think they've sussed it? I know where my money is.

Instead of focusing on the anomalies in the official story, you should focus on the ridiculous anomalies and inconsistencies in conspiracy theories. If the official party line was riddled with as many gaping holes as the theories I could understand your insistence it was in some way an inside job.

i'll try again ,

I've made no such statements that are claimed as definite and i really am not in a position to make such claims Ok?

it's not me who keeps going on about babble this and babble that , it's groups such as pilots , architects , engineers scholars etc for 911 truth

look at the list of pilots on the website and they really are not just a bunch of ppl's ( as i was ) but vastly experienced pilots such as russ wittenberg , glen stanish , rob balsamo etc etc

look at the other lists of architects and engineers etc

Again don’t be offended and you may think it impossible , but this may come as a shock to many FT posters that there are scientists , engineers , pilots , politicians etc with far greater knowledge in their field than you or I or anyone else on here that are not convinced by the official story of 911 .

Like all experts, they may be wrong, but like all experts so might the ones who tow the official line be wrong.

Among others on here you seem to have an unyielding sense of belief in your own infallibility to actually be wrong.

I’ve said many times that I have absolutely no idea about what really happened , but many greater minds than ours think that all is not as it is being portrayed .

I’ve occasionally put up alternative theories as to what may have happened but have always tried to stress that that is all they are; just theories.

Many of you keep banging on about producing evidence , and for some inexplicable reason seem to be incapable of grasping the simple fact that the prime suspects of any possible conspiracy are the very same that control all the evidence .

i actually don't think this will ever sink in with some people though maybe because of arrogance or innate disbelief that they can actually be fooled by anyone

[marko]

i'll try again ,

I've made no such statements that are claimed as definite and i really am not in a position to make such claims Ok?

it's not me who keeps going on about babble this and babble that , it's groups such as pilots , architects , engineers scholars etc for 911 truth

look at the list of pilots on the website and they really are not just a bunch of ppl's ( as i was ) but vastly experienced pilots such as russ wittenberg , glen stanish , rob balsamo etc etc

look at the other lists of architects and engineers etc

Again don’t be offended and you may think it impossible , but this may come as a shock to many FT posters that there are scientists , engineers , pilots , politicians etc with far greater knowledge in their field than you or I or anyone else on here that are not convinced by the official story of 911 .

Like all experts, they may be wrong, but like all experts so might the ones who tow the official line be wrong.

Among others on here you seem to have an unyielding sense of belief in your own infallibility to actually be wrong.

I’ve said many times that I have absolutely no idea about what really happened , but many greater minds than ours think that all is not as it is being portrayed .

I’ve occasionally put up alternative theories as to what may have happened but have always tried to stress that that is all they are; just theories.

Many of you keep banging on about producing evidence , and for some inexplicable reason seem to be incapable of grasping the simple fact that the prime suspects of any possible conspiracy are the very same that control all the evidence .

i actually don't think this will ever sink in with some people though maybe because of arrogance or innate disbelief that they can actually be fooled by anyone

No, I really don't have unyielding sense I can't be wrong. On all the evidence provided it's quite clear to me that this was undoubtedly the work of terrorists. There are way too many holes in the conspiracy theories to be taken seriously. While there may be some "experts" saying "US Government did this, yadder, yadder, yadder", they are outweighed by other experts who offer rational explanations.

Well if they control all the evidence how come these 9/11 Truth pilots were able to produce such a comprehensive video. If they had no evidence then surely the video must be discredited as it is based on nothing but pure conjecture?

[coale39]

i'll try again ,

I've made no such statements that are claimed as definite and i really am not in a position to make such claims Ok?

it's not me who keeps going on about babble this and babble that , it's groups such as pilots , architects , engineers scholars etc for 911 truth

look at the list of pilots on the website and they really are not just a bunch of ppl's ( as i was ) but vastly experienced pilots such as russ wittenberg , glen stanish , rob balsamo etc etc

look at the other lists of architects and engineers etc

Again don't be offended and you may think it impossible , but this may come as a shock to many FT posters that there are scientists , engineers , pilots , politicians etc with far greater knowledge in their field than you or I or anyone else on here that are not convinced by the official story of 911 .

Like all experts, they may be wrong, but like all experts so might the ones who tow the official line be wrong.

Among others on here you seem to have an unyielding sense of belief in your own infallibility to actually be wrong.

I've said many times that I have absolutely no idea about what really happened , but many greater minds than ours think that all is not as it is being portrayed .

I've occasionally put up alternative theories as to what may have happened but have always tried to stress that that is all they are; just theories.

Many of you keep banging on about producing evidence , and for some inexplicable reason seem to be incapable of grasping the simple fact that the prime suspects of any possible conspiracy are the very same that control all the evidence .

i actually don't think this will ever sink in with some people though maybe because of arrogance or innate disbelief that they can actually be fooled by anyone

I think we should always question everything, that's great.

I just think most of the conspiracies are quite unrealistic/unlikely. Things don't always happen exactly how they should.

[Zingari]

No, I really don't have unyielding sense I can't be wrong. On all the evidence provided it's quite clear to me that this was undoubtedly the work of terrorists. There are way too many holes in the conspiracy theories to be taken seriously. While there may be some "experts" saying "US Government did this, yadder, yadder, yadder", they are outweighed by other experts who offer rational explanations.

Well if they control all the evidence how come these 9/11 Truth pilots were able to produce such a comprehensive video. If they had no evidence then surely the video must be discredited as it is based on nothing but pure conjecture?

Because they know very few will watch it and even fewer will actually understand the significance ( and i'll readily admit it took me a few viewings to really grasp the significance )

if you take the trouble to watch it you will see it is taken directly from the NTSB and freely available for you or anyone else to view and discuss .

if you find out that it is in any way falsified or can put a different interpretation to how it is portrayed , please let me know , ok i really am not that intransigent as you seem to believe

[fleckneymike]

Perhaps we'd be quicker asking what didn't happen. Zingary, could you state in broad terms (i.e. a plane didn't hit the pentagon) what you think didn't happen?

[Rincewind]

Well there you go then, Zing has it solved and the mystery wrapped up. The evidence against the US government, the military the Pentagon secret service, TESCO C&A IRS the CIA the MIT FBI the CAA and Boing is overwelming they may as well turn themselves in and confess all.

[Zingari]

Perhaps we'd be quicker asking what didn't happen. Zingary, could you state in broad terms (i.e. a plane didn't hit the pentagon) what you think didn't happen?

Have you actually read anything that I've posted on here ?

I'll say it again just for your benefit , but it really is becoming very tiresome now .

I've absolutely no idea what hit the pentagon , but there are reasonable doubts put forward by many well informed groups as to the veracity of the official version . Have you got that ?

Now if you really are interested in what these doubts are , please watch the videos posted by pilots for 911 truth ( pandoras black box etc) which explain what these serious anomalies are. .And then make judgments for yourself as to whether they mean anything , or can be dismissed

If you can't be bothered , as i suspect most people are , then please don't keep asking me these ridiculous questions that I can't possibly answer and I cannot give you the whole 911 real truth beautifully gift wrapped for you , OK ?

I'm only listening to those groups of professionals that are asking the very relevant questions and interested in the answers.

if this is such a great sin in your philosophy of life then so be it , but i can assure you that i am in no way put off by either you or anyone else that thinks this way

[Babylon]

I'm only listening to those groups of professionals that are asking the very relevant questions and interested in the answers, and completely ignoring anyone qualified or not who says the opposite.

I've amended that bit for you.

[Rincewind]

Two plus two equals five

[Babylon]

i'm fairly sure that just like the last one i posted , no-one will actually watch this pilots for 911 truth video as at 50 mins it probably is too long and it does not have all the answers nicely gift wrapped for you and it will probably seem like petty nitpicking of the official story , but i'm not giving up hope that people will realise that as in all crimes , the devil is in the detail .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcXPbKkf5h8

How can you make any judgment using these videos. How do you know if ANYTHING they are showing you is correct whether it's the governments side of the story or theirs... you have to take their word for it.

[Zingari]

How can you make any judgment using these videos. How do you know if ANYTHING they are showing you is correct whether it's the governments side of the story or theirs... you have to take their word for it.

he has explained that the NTSB has refused to give him any answers and of course if we can't know that this is correct but don't know if it is wrong either

Look , of course I’ve listened to the official story over and over and over , I can’t help it because we have all been bombarded with it ever since .

I just think that the crime of the century/millennium needs a little more thought by everyone than the wholesale acceptance of what the government saying has to be the truth .

Try to criticise the video, not me, just take a look along with your “pilot friend” and tell me where Rob Balsamo is misinforming us, and why his conclusions about the two animations not matching in both direction and height should be unimportant to any of us.

Why is his evidence taken from the FDR about the cabin doors being closed for the whole duration of the flight unimportant?

[Babylon]

tell me where Rob Balsamo is misinforming us

Google his name, there are plenty of people who have already taken him to task and pointed out numerous mistakes in almost all of his videos. Lots of incorrect calculations, many presumptions on his part (that funnily enough suit his argument).

He even starts the video by admitting he's made SOME mistakes, but then turns it around to try and mock the people mocking him. Making them out to be the idiots (even though he admitted he was wrong). If he's going to publish incorrect data like that, and admit it how can you take his word so easily?

I highlighted SOME earlier as in just a couple of minutes searching I have found a lots of information from people pointing out he's only admitted to a couple and not the whole lot... the reason being if he admitted to the other errors people are pointing out it would completely ruin his argument.

It's all there on the first/second page of google.

[Zingari]

Google his name, there are plenty of people who have already taken him to task and pointed out numerous mistakes in almost all of his videos. Lots of incorrect calculations, many presumptions on his part (that funnily enough suit his argument).

He even starts the video by admitting he's made SOME mistakes, but then turns it around to try and mock the people mocking him. Making them out to be the idiots (even though he admitted he was wrong). If he's going to publish incorrect data like that, and admit it how can you take his word so easily?

I highlighted SOME earlier as in just a couple of minutes searching I have found a lots of information from people pointing out he's only admitted to a couple and not the whole lot... the reason being if he admitted to the other errors people are pointing out it would completely ruin his argument.

It's all there on the first/second page of google.

ok i accept this but it really isn't somrthing that should only be being discussed on websites , it should be out in the open with full disclosure for everyone

But the eyewitnesses that seemed so important to you earlier have stated quite categorically on camera that the airliner approach was from the north of the citgo garage and not the south ,which challenges the whole story. Are they all mistaken and unreliable now ?

i think it would be easier to mistake the type size etc of an airline rather that the direction the viewer witnessed it's approach .

But anyhow , as interesting as it's been , i will just have to leave it there for a while and say thanks to you and many others for joining in as i really have enjoyed the discussion, but not so much the few that just insist on posting Statler and Waldorf type comments and thinking themselves hilarious

[Babylon]

ok i accept this but it really isn't somrthing that should only be being discussed on websites , it should be out in the open with full disclosure for everyone

But the eyewitnesses that seemed so important to you earlier have stated quite categorically on camera that the airliner approach was from the north of the citgo garage and not the south ,which challenges the whole story. Are they all mistaken and unreliable now ?

i think it would be easier to mistake the type size etc of an airline rather that the direction the viewer witnessed it's approach .

But they are JUST the witnesses who say what he wants to hear (they could be his mates for all you know). What about those on record who say the same as the official story?

[Zingari]

But they are JUST the witnesses who say what he wants to hear (they could be his mates for all you know). What about those on record who say the same as the official story?

go to 28 minutes into the video ,

these witnesses, sergeants legasse and brookes are pentagon policemen and i'm sure their existence and credibility can be checked

i really will have to leave it there for now

but thanks for bringing this point up because it really is very important

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcXPbKkf5h8&feature=player_embedded

[Rincewind]

We are being asked to be skeptical about the official reports yet being asked to believe everythinhg in unofficial reports. This makes me skeptical about the unofficial reports. If any conspiracy therory is to stand up it needs to have accurate facts and proof that the official version of events is false. So far from what has been established on here the truthers need to present their case better without some of the things being put forward being debunked.

[Babylon]

If people questioned the unofficial stuff as much as the official stuff this thread wouldn't exist.

[l444ry]

http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/star_wars_terrorist.jpg

[Rincewind]

Another therory

[Zingari]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention nightguard

Now read what many of the comments about it are saying because most of them think it's bullshit and i can assure you it's not me making them under various aliases.

Of course this “theory” seems to conveniently forget that wtc7 was not actually hit by anything other than flying debris and it too collapsed in a symmetric freefall so any "aluminium fusing with water causing explosions ) cannot apply here .

It would have all been so simple to prove what caused the collapses if the evidence had not so quickly been destroyed and sold off to asian scrap dealers

[AndyElZorro]

Half of the steel from the WTC is sitting outside of firehouses across the US. No conspiracy or creating fake steel just to keep you morons happy. It happened. It was real. You weren't there. I was. Let it fecking go!

[Rincewind]

It amazes me how some peoples minds work. The world has just witnessed one of the first terrorist attacks on the USA destroying buildings that controlled some of the top fiancial services and the expected first thought when clearing the debris which includes remains of 1000 plus human remains is to search for evidence of an inside job. Why after aircraft had been seen crashing into the twin towers would anyone conducting an invwestication shortly after the event would even suspect that the Us government had organized and arranged for this to take place involving explosive experts who would remain silent about their involvement in the loss of thousands of life?

Sorry but even thinking about it sounds one of the most stupidest ideas since Noah put the rabbit in the same pen as the lion on the Ark.

[Zingari]

That old scoundrel Ahmed Dinnerjacket has been causing quite a kerfuffle again at the UN !!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/8783359/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-claims-planes-did-not-cause-Twin-Towers-to-fall.html#dsq-content

Some of the comments below make good reading but it seems all debates about 911 have an almost unstoppable tendency to degenerate into ridiculous name calling .

It's a good thing FT can buck this trend

edit; A bit more to read regarding this

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/5620.htm

[Dr The Singh]

That old scoundrel Ahmed Dinnerjacket has been causing quite a kerfuffle again at the UN !!

http://www.telegraph...tml#dsq-content

Some of the comments below make good reading but it seems all debates about 911 have an almost unstoppable tendency to degenerate into ridiculous name calling .

It's a good thing FT can buck this trend

edit; A bit more to read regarding this

http://www.memri.org.../0/0/0/5620.htm

I think Mr Dinnerjacket should concentrate on his own country and what's happening there then the Twin towers. 2000 experts says Yes, 2000 say No, and what's changed foook all, i'm still paying high taxes, can't afford to move up in the property ladder, and Sexylady1 wouldn't go on a date with me..................

[Zingari]

I think Mr Dinnerjacket should concentrate on his own country and what's happening there then the Twin towers. 2000 experts says Yes, 2000 say No, and what's changed foook all, i'm still paying high taxes, can't afford to move up in the property ladder, and Sexylady1 wouldn't go on a date with me..................

that puts the whole thing into perspective doc !!

i'm just being selfish