skinnydipper Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 What you say is totally valid in most respects I agree with the sentiments expressed. However, I learned early on that the law doesn't favour emotion. It's a set of rules that you either agree with or don't. Once you buy in to that you have to go along with it for good or bad. Not the response I expected but kudos to you for listening to my point of view, thank you. We may be banned. There's no place for perspective taking and politeness on this forum As you say, the rules in force have to be applied but whether those rules should be in force is another matter. I imagine emotion does play a big part in these particular cases, e.g when a jury consider allegations of child or police murder and the defendant is someone who is not respectable or entirely law abiding and also at the stage following a conviction when the jury considers its recommendation as to penalty.
Guest Bilo Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 I agree with topharry's response to the 'Only in America' comments, many countries that practice the death penalty are even less backwards in coming forwards to practice it. China executes criminals on a near industrial scale while Iran practices brutal executions for 'crimes' such as homosexuality on a regular basis. In terms of miscarriages of justice here, it would have been a huge indictment of our entire legal system had Stefan Kiszko been put to death. When he was convicted of murder in 1976, he would in most people's eyes have been a prime candidate for the death penalty as someone who had been found in court to have sexually assaulted and murdered an 11 year old girl. By 1992 it had emerged that he could not have committed the crime and a grave miscarriage of justice including police negligence and appalling mistakes by his own defence had led to his conviction. As his appeal had been turned down, he had refused to admit to the crime and therefore failed to show remorse he would most probably have been executed by 1992 had the death penalty been in place. This in spite of the case against him being based on worthless witness testimonies and forensic evidence that if it were called flawed would be paying it a compliment it didn't deserve. An innocent man would have been killed while the murderer enjoyed his liberty. If this case doesn't make people think again about the death penalty, I don't know what will.
Wycombe Fox Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 I thought this thread was going to be about the end of Kermo's City career.
Zingari Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 that looks a pretty ineffective way to hang someone to me , i think it would be easy enough to put your feet down and take the strain
Dr The Singh Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 that looks a pretty ineffective way to hang someone to me , i think it would be easy enough to put your feet down and take the strain Not if they chop your legs of before though!!!!
Houdini Logic Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 Not if they chop your legs of before though!!!! Singh's right - don't let the rope fool you, they chop your legs off and nail you to the top beam by your balls. You don't even want to see what they do to girls...
sw_fox Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 To all those who are trying to argue it is not a racial issue here is a statistic for you- -15% of the population of Georgia are African-Americans -50% of death row inmates in Georgia are African-Americans This, to me, proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that if you are an African American in Georgia you are more likely to be put to death for a capital crime than if you are white. Another excellent reason why not to have a death penalty- it relies on the prejudices of the jurors. In normal cases if there is a miscarriage of justice due to prejudice it can be reversed, in capital cases it cannot once the execution has gone ahead.
Dr The Singh Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 I agree with topharry's response to the 'Only in America' comments, many countries that practice the death penalty are even less backwards in coming forwards to practice it. China executes criminals on a near industrial scale while Iran practices brutal executions for 'crimes' such as homosexuality on a regular basis. In terms of miscarriages of justice here, it would have been a huge indictment of our entire legal system had Stefan Kiszko been put to death. When he was convicted of murder in 1976, he would in most people's eyes have been a prime candidate for the death penalty as someone who had been found in court to have sexually assaulted and murdered an 11 year old girl. By 1992 it had emerged that he could not have committed the crime and a grave miscarriage of justice including police negligence and appalling mistakes by his own defence had led to his conviction. As his appeal had been turned down, he had refused to admit to the crime and therefore failed to show remorse he would most probably have been executed by 1992 had the death penalty been in place. This in spite of the case against him being based on worthless witness testimonies and forensic evidence that if it were called flawed would be paying it a compliment it didn't deserve. An innocent man would have been killed while the murderer enjoyed his liberty. If this case doesn't make people think again about the death penalty, I don't know what will. Meh, nations such as China, India which are considered less 'civilised' will just find another way to kill. India created RAW and Black Cats, and fake police encounters to kill 100,000's, and swept it under the carpet!!! As long politically no-one gives a foook, crime, criminals, injustices will go ahead!!
Zingari Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 Singh's right - don't let the rope fool you, they chop your legs off and nail you to the top beam by your balls. You don't even want to see what they do to girls... blimey the rope is no more than a decorative embellishment for the miscreant then ?
Webbo Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 To all those who are trying to argue it is not a racial issue here is a statistic for you- -15% of the population of Georgia are African-Americans -50% of death row inmates in Georgia are African-Americans This, to me, proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that if you are an African American in Georgia you are more likely to be put to death for a capital crime than if you are white. Another excellent reason why not to have a death penalty- it relies on the prejudices of the jurors. In normal cases if there is a miscarriage of justice due to prejudice it can be reversed, in capital cases it cannot once the execution has gone ahead. Doesn't it prove, for whatever reason, that you are more likely to commit murder if you are an 'African American'?
I am Rod Hull Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 Doesn't it prove, for whatever reason, that you are more likely to commit murder if you are an 'African American'? Be careful... Someone might call you a racist...
Zingari Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 I think I read somewhere that a study had revealed African American men had a greater life expectancy on death row than out on the streets . It may be complete bollox of course ( either the study or my memory of it )
Guest MattP Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 That's offensive there are American fans on this forum. you obviously know nothing of the case. There was enough evidence to convict him and every last appeal was exhausted. They are the rules. Some people sit on death row for 30 years + because there are more things that possibly could prove their innocence. In this case there was nothing left. I find it offensive when people say only in america, it's not right and it's not clever. For example, Ian Huntely is a child killer, imagine the uproar if someone commented on a news story about it only in england. You wouldn't be happy, and neither would I or many others. Do yourself a favor and leave out the only in American bullshit because it's not only in America 99.9% of the time it's everywhere, it's just a stupid comment glorifying how small minded some people can be about what goes on in the world. It's astonishing how anyone on any internet form can just stereotype about America and no one tends to say a word, incredible hypocrisy. To all those who are trying to argue it is not a racial issue here is a statistic for you- -15% of the population of Georgia are African-Americans -50% of death row inmates in Georgia are African-Americans This, to me, proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that if you are an African American in Georgia you are more likely to be put to death for a capital crime than if you are white. Another excellent reason why not to have a death penalty- it relies on the prejudices of the jurors. In normal cases if there is a miscarriage of justice due to prejudice it can be reversed, in capital cases it cannot once the execution has gone ahead. Doesnt that just prove that in Georgia African Americans are more likely to commit murder?
sw_fox Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 It's astonishing how anyone on any internet form can just stereotype about America and no one tends to say a word, incredible hypocrisy. Doesnt that just prove that in Georgia African Americans are more likely to commit murder? A rather simplistic conclusion. If you put it in the context (of that particular state) of racial segregation, Jim Crow laws, lynchings, harsher sentences consistently passed down to African-Americans etc then I think it would be a safer bet to say that is NOT the case, and that it is due to the racism inherent in the system. If you want another example of racism influencing the judicial process in America in recent times, you need look no further than the case of Duane Buck. Duane Buck is a convicted murderer, sentenced to death and it looks like it is a 'safe' conviction. However when it came to sentencing, the jury recommended the death penalty because of testimony of an expert witness who told the jury that because he was black he was more likely to re-offend, so therefore should have the death penalty. Therefore if he had been white then he would have most likely got a life term, not the death penalty. Buck's case is under review currently, however it is an example of how biased the system can be.
Alexikokopops Posted 23 September 2011 Author Posted 23 September 2011 To all those who are trying to argue it is not a racial issue here is a statistic for you- -15% of the population of Georgia are African-Americans -50% of death row inmates in Georgia are African-Americans This, to me, proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that if you are an African American in Georgia you are more likely to be put to death for a capital crime than if you are white. Another excellent reason why not to have a death penalty- it relies on the prejudices of the jurors. In normal cases if there is a miscarriage of justice due to prejudice it can be reversed, in capital cases it cannot once the execution has gone ahead. I'm reassessing my stance. I'm pro death penalty only for the crime of "horrific misuse of statistics". As a statistician the above post makes me die a little inside.
Houdini Logic Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 It's astonishing how anyone on any internet form can just stereotype about America and no one tends to say a word, incredible hypocrisy. It's because the majority think it's true. They have some lovely people and places, but they aren't half screwballs sometimes
James. Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 I'm reassessing my stance. I'm pro death penalty only for the crime of "horrific misuse of statistics". As a statistician the above post makes me die a little inside. I'm not even a statistician but I'm also horrified by that post.
Dr The Singh Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 sw fox could be a masterbater Most definitely!!!
skinnydipper Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 Most definitely!!! True to form but still made me laugh!
Dr The Singh Posted 23 September 2011 Posted 23 September 2011 True to form but still made me laugh! Never fault the classics!!!
Alexikokopops Posted 23 September 2011 Author Posted 23 September 2011 I'm not even a statistician but I'm also horrified by that post.
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