The death penalty

[Alexikokopops]

Despite there being no forensic evidence, and 7 of the 9 witness who originally claimed he did it retracting their statements (blaming police coercion for their original conviction), Troy Davis was executed last night for the murder of off duty policeman Mark MacPhail in 1991. I find this article gives an easy reading background on the case for those unaware.

On the same night Ross Byrd, son of James Byrd Jr., objects to the execution of his father's murderer Lawrence Russell Booth. Booth was one of three men who drove Byrd into the countryside, tied him feet first to the truck with his chain, and dragged him along the road (until his head and arm were ripped off) in one of the most notorious hate crimes in recent years. All while he was alive (despite claims in court that his throat was slit first).

You can't fight murder with murder. The death penalty is wrong on all counts.

Consider this can of worms RE-OPENED.

[MikeyT]

Despite there being no forensic evidence, and 7 of the 9 witness who originally claimed he did it retracting their statements (blaming police coercion for their original conviction), Troy Davis was executed last night for the murder of off duty policeman Mark MacPhail in 1991. I find this article gives an easy reading background on the case for those unaware.

On the same night Ross Byrd, son of James Byrd Jr., objects to the execution of his father's murderer Lawrence Russell Booth. Booth was one of three men who drove Byrd into the countryside, tied him feet first to the truck with his chain, and dragged him along the road (until his head and arm were ripped off) in one of the most notorious hate crimes in recent years. All while he was alive (despite claims in court that his throat was slit first).

You can't fight murder with murder. The death penalty is wrong on all counts.

e did that to a member of my family, i would want them to suffer as much pain as possible.

Consider this can of worms RE-OPENED.

I think personally if someone did that to a member of my family, i would want them to suffer as much pain as possible and i'd gladly do it myself.

[Vacamion]

Yeah, you're right, we shouldnt execute murderers.

We should put them in unheated, isolated 'hole in the ground' prison, remind them 6 times a day why they are there and give them the means to kill themselves, however...

[The Year Of The Fox]

Just heard the blokes last words. Sounds innocent to me

[Fox92]

Despite there being no forensic evidence, and 7 of the 9 witness who originally claimed he did it retracting their statements (blaming police coercion for their original conviction), Troy Davis was executed last night for the murder of off duty policeman Mark MacPhail in 1991. I find this article gives an easy reading background on the case for those unaware.

On the same night Ross Byrd, son of James Byrd Jr., objects to the execution of his father's murderer Lawrence Russell Booth. Booth was one of three men who drove Byrd into the countryside, tied him feet first to the truck with his chain, and dragged him along the road (until his head and arm were ripped off) in one of the most notorious hate crimes in recent years. All while he was alive (despite claims in court that his throat was slit first).

You can't fight murder with murder. The death penalty is wrong on all counts.

Consider this can of worms RE-OPENED.

That is sick.

If you can really do that to someone, then, you should be ready to face anything.

[One Arm Babba]

Just heard the blokes last words. Sounds innocent to me

Stu, that's hilarious. God help us if you get jury duty. :-)

20 years of case history vs his last words.

** I may add that I think it is an appalling carriage of misjustice. He probably is an innocent man. Looks like a massive cover up to me. Conspiracy theorists will go wild with this one.

[Rincewind]

His case history does not matter. He should be judged on the evidence in the current case.

The majority of murders are domestic. A lot spur of the moment actions like like wife having a bad day has a big row with hubby whilst holding a kitchen knife. Some murders are as the result fights with the culprit only intending to cause as injury to the victim as a result of an argument. Others are caused becaused the murderer has a mental illness, had a recent trauma etc

Then there are those murders committed while committing another crime. Again I don't think these are intentional but the murderer is prepared to use any means to escape being caught.

Then there are the synacle planned killings which are mostly for gain a husbands or wifes insurance a wife or husbands lover jealousy etc. I believe these are rar but high profile.

I believe it is hard to say one type of murder is worse than another as to the victims family it is still murder. Some say let them decide but would their decision be based on revenge or justice? And how many could actually pull the lever when the time comes?

I do agree with the death penalty but sometimes think with child killers that if they were left alone in a cell and they killed themselves I would shed no tears but should be treated as humanely as possible whilst locked up.

In fact this might well go on which is why they are given the most protectio. If another prisoner believes they have suicidal tendancies they could leave the tools needed and not be blamed. And I am sure prison Officers may do the same.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Stu, that's hilarious. God help us if you get jury duty. :-)

20 years of case history vs his last words.

** I may add that I think it is an appalling carriage of misjustice. He probably is an innocent man. Looks like a massive cover up to me. Conspiracy theorists will go wild with this one.

there's never a more honest man than one who's about to die. I know nothing of the case, but that was my immediate thought

[MikeyT]

there's never a more honest man than one who's about to die. I know nothing of the case, but that was my immediate thought

Either that or he was trying everything he can in desperation to get a reprieve.

[One Arm Babba]

Its like Shawshank. They're all innocent.... Lawyer ****ed them.

[marko]

I think the execution of Troy Davis is a complete miscarriage of justice. How the State can send a man to his death on unreliable eye witness testimony, allegations of police duress and no DNA is unbelievable; it's criminal in the utmost.

The burden of proof required by the prosecution should be "no doubt at all". To take the life of a human being, the most precious thing on earth, it should require irrefutable scientific evidence. The American police have a history of letting their own personal views of "who dunnit" get in the way of finding the real culprit, which is what I think has happened in this case. The fact that 7 of the 9 witnesses have recanted their statements says it all to me, of the two that have stuck to their guns, one hasn't been heard of for 20 years and the other has been accused by other witnesses of admitting the killing and shopping Davis to the police to cover his own back. Even members of the jury have said they wouldn't have handed down a guilty verdict now.

If anyone wants a decent read on the exoneration of a death row inmate should read the 'Innocent Man' by John Grisham. It's the true story of Ron Williamson sentenced to death for the murder of waitress Debra Sue Carter.

[Christoph]

3 words.

Only. In. America.

[Webbo]

Having a debate about the rights and wrongs of the death penalty is fair enough but I don't think any of us are in a position to judge whether this man was guilty or not. He's been found guilty in a trial as well as various appeals.

How do we know that the people who changed their statement because of claims of police coercion haven't changed their statements because of anti capital punishment coercion?

He might be innocent I don't know and neither does anyone else on here either.

[Bert]

An eye for an eye and all that. But only if there's concrete evidence.

[James.]

Having a debate about the rights and wrongs of the death penalty is fair enough but I don't think any of us are in a position to judge whether this man was guilty or not. He's been found guilty in a trial as well as various appeals.

How do we know that the people who changed their statement because of claims of police coercion haven't changed their statements because of anti capital punishment coercion?

He might be innocent I don't know and neither does anyone else on here either.

I think the overriding point is that irrespective of whether he is guilty or not it is deeply worrying that a man can be sentenced to death without any DNA or forensic evidence implicating him (not to mention the other factors such as the witnesses recanting, etc).

[Alexikokopops]

Having a debate about the rights and wrongs of the death penalty is fair enough but I don't think any of us are in a position to judge whether this man was guilty or not. He's been found guilty in a trial as well as various appeals.

How do we know that the people who changed their statement because of claims of police coercion haven't changed their statements because of anti capital punishment coercion?

He might be innocent I don't know and neither does anyone else on here either.

When I was talking to someone about this last night I used the term "wrongfully executed" rather than saying "an innocent man was executed" for this reason. We can't say for 100% certain he's definitely innocent, but the fact that someone can be tried for execution on such little evidence (no forensics and witness statements that are chopping and changing) is worrying in itself. Add to that the "guilty until proven innocent" aspect of his appeals given the nature of the original evidence and that just further adds to it.

[Webbo]

I think the overriding point is that irrespective of whether he is guilty or not it is deeply worrying that a man can be sentenced to death without any DNA or forensic evidence implicating him (not to mention the other factors such as the witnesses recanting, etc).

People were convicted of murder before DNA evidence came available, if you shoot someone from over a certain distance I'm not sure there would be any DNA evidence anyway.

This isn't a black and white issue, the state murdering people for what ever reason seems totally immoral to me but there is evidence that the death penalty does deter murder. Does the saving of innocent lives justify the death penalty? I don't know and I'm glad that I don't have to make those decisions.

[marko]

People were convicted of murder before DNA evidence came available, if you shoot someone from over a certain distance I'm not sure there would be any DNA evidence anyway.

This isn't a black and white issue, the state murdering people for what ever reason seems totally immoral to me but there is evidence that the death penalty does deter murder. Does the saving of innocent lives justify the death penalty? I don't know and I'm glad that I don't have to make those decisions.

Not according to Barack Obama, even he stated capital punishment does little to deter murderers.

[James.]

People were convicted of murder before DNA evidence came available, if you shoot someone from over a certain distance I'm not sure there would be any DNA evidence anyway.

This isn't a black and white issue, the state murdering people for what ever reason seems totally immoral to me but there is evidence that the death penalty does deter murder. Does the saving of innocent lives justify the death penalty? I don't know and I'm glad that I don't have to make those decisions.

It's not just a lack of DNA though - it appears there is absolutely no forensic evidence whatsoever.

I agree with you about the morality of the state murdering people but would question to what extent there is evidence supporting the death penalty as a deterrent. There are so many factors that will influence murder rates that isolating the impact of one of them has to be near impossible.

In any case the death penalty debate has been done to... err... death on here and it generally polarises posters with no one changing their view. My interest in this particular story is how a killing can be justified in light of so little concrete evidence. Surely if you're going to have a death penalty you have to prove guilt beyond all doubt and I can't see how anyone can look at this story and say the state has done that.

[21st Century Fox]

Personally I find it one of the biggest hypocrisies of our species. Putting murder up there as the biggest sin and then allowing the state to carry it out.

On a side note I read somewhere the other day that if the laws that governed the Nuremberg trials were enforced in America something like the last 6 Presidents would be hanged.

[Rincewind]

I'm sure you have all heard of the Craig Bentley case. He had a mental age well below his. Eyewitnesses were too far away to see. He was convicted and hung because the person he was with who actually fired the gun was under age (16) There was a last minute appeal by this sister who went personally to the houses of parliment but the minister said although there was a good case for leniancy the hanging had to go through so as to set an example to others. (plus it would show the government was being tough with crime)

They made a film 'Let Him Have It' based on the words Bentley was alledged to have said. Bentley maintained that he was saying give them the gun.

I don't think a jury could possibly know what he was thinking. The trial and execution was over in less than 3 months. His defense was next to useless. Never brought up the fact that the eyewitness saw the events with poor street lighting and from a distance without wearing their glasses.

I did this at nightschool for an English course. Dug out old newspapers and reports. The above just sticks in my mind. I may have some facts slightly wrong but the above is the gist of it

The other one served a few years in prison and came out a reformed person. At the time which was not long after the end of the war he was obsessed with guns. The night in question he was out looking for trouble as his elder brother had just been done for armed robbery.

[Dr The Singh]

It's not just a lack of DNA though - it appears there is absolutely no forensic evidence whatsoever.

I agree with you about the morality of the state murdering people but would question to what extent there is evidence supporting the death penalty as a deterrent. There are so many factors that will influence murder rates that isolating the impact of one of them has to be near impossible.

In any case the death penalty debate has been done to... err... death on here and it generally polarises posters with no one changing their view. My interest in this particular story is how a killing can be justified in light of so little concrete evidence. Surely if you're going to have a death penalty you have to prove guilt beyond all doubt and I can't see how anyone can look at this story and say the state has done that.

You should check Devinderpal Singh Bhullar case in India, it pisses over this case interms of evidence, and a bias justice system. I suppose in the case of Mr Bhullar, he was abit unfortunate he wasn't just shot dead like majority dissedants, now he is mentally insane from the torture and abuse he's recieved for over 15 years!!!

I wonder how much media coverage Mr Bhullar got????

[acooling08]

Despite there being no forensic evidence, and 7 of the 9 witness who originally claimed he did it retracting their statements (blaming police coercion for their original conviction), Troy Davis was executed last night for the murder of off duty policeman Mark MacPhail in 1991. I find this article gives an easy reading background on the case for those unaware.

On the same night Ross Byrd, son of James Byrd Jr., objects to the execution of his father's murderer Lawrence Russell Booth. Booth was one of three men who drove Byrd into the countryside, tied him feet first to the truck with his chain, and dragged him along the road (until his head and arm were ripped off) in one of the most notorious hate crimes in recent years. All while he was alive (despite claims in court that his throat was slit first).

You can't fight murder with murder. The death penalty is wrong on all counts.

Consider this can of worms RE-OPENED..

Why bring this up AGAIN Alex??? Just why???

The death penalty may be wrong on THIS count, certainly not by all counts.

[Guest MattP]

I think personally if someone did that to a member of my family, i would want them to suffer as much pain as possible and i'd gladly do it myself.

Exactly, what on earth do you do someone prepared to chain a disabled man to a car and drive around to decapitate them on the basis they are black, his last words as well "I'd do it again tomorrow" - It would be more barbaric to keep him alive.

Can you imagine if that was over here?, that guy would actually be out again by now Makes me feel sick.

I don't support the re-introduction of the death penalty but we really need to look at what we do.

Life Imprisonment > Death Penalty

Death Penalty > 7 year release after murder.

[Smudge]

It's not just a lack of DNA though - it appears there is absolutely no forensic evidence whatsoever.

I agree with you about the morality of the state murdering people but would question to what extent there is evidence supporting the death penalty as a deterrent. There are so many factors that will influence murder rates that isolating the impact of one of them has to be near impossible.

In any case the death penalty debate has been done to... err... death on here and it generally polarises posters with no one changing their view. My interest in this particular story is how a killing can be justified in light of so little concrete evidence. Surely if you're going to have a death penalty you have to prove guilt beyond all doubt and I can't see how anyone can look at this story and say the state has done that.

After a jury has found him guilty, it's not the State's responsibility to find evidence to the contrary, it's the job of his advocates. Overturning a jury's decision has to be a big deal otherwise we invalidate the system.