GingerrrFox Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 The point is, there is no signed agreement in place. You can't be held subject to a contract you haven't accepted. You aren't breaking a law, you aren't breaking a contract, you aren't even breaking an agreement. Only a mug would pay. Technically when you park on private land you are entering into a contract. In the eyes of the court when you park the car you are accepting the terms and conditions of the landlord.
Nick Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 Having parked at morrisons last season I've been getting parking fines through the post but have been ignoring these as nothing more than speculative invoices. However today I've received a letter from the county court business centre in Northampton, is this a last/another attempt at scaring me into paying or are they intending to take me to court? Vlad, who is the letter actually from? As far as I know a prosecution for car parking offences has never been made from a private company. They have to prove adequate signage and a period of reflection for the driver to enter into a binding agreement which you don't get when driving into a car park. Are they saying they are taking you to court or are they saying they might / could intend to etc........ The letter is from a business centre with claims court in the title or the actual claims court with a listing etc?
Houdini Logic Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 The point is, there is no signed agreement in place. You can't be held subject to a contract you haven't accepted. You aren't breaking a law, you aren't breaking a contract, you aren't even breaking an agreement. Only a mug would pay. So I can drive into your back garden and leave my car there? Excellent - where do you live?
AyewJoking Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 So I can drive into your back garden and leave my car there? Excellent - where do you live? jokes on you, he lives on the saff
Strokes Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 So I can drive into your back garden and leave my car there? Excellent - where do you live?Not without prior consent, that would be tresspass, and possibly breaking and entering.
ADK Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 It's best to stick to one of the dedicated forums for this sort of thing. But essentially you used to be able to just ignore these invoices because they could only go after the driver of the vehicle. Now they are able to go after the registered keeper so you can't ignore them so easily. They have little chance of winning their case in court, but some tend to chance the fact that the keeper will ignore the court and they will win by default or present a poor case which gives them the chance. It's also as much about trying to strike fear into their victims as anything else. Private companies aren't allowed to charge fines or penalties, only for costs incurred when a contact is breached. So in this case the person overstaying in a free car park has denied the car park the chance to charge someone else £0.00.
Houdini Logic Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 Not without prior consent, that would be tresspass, and possibly breaking and entering. So how come you're able to park in a private car park without prior consent? jokes on you, he lives on the saff I fear for my hypothetical wheels...
Strokes Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 The parking ticket isn't for trespass, its for breaking a contract he never agreed too.
GingerrrFox Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 The parking ticket isn't for trespass, its for breaking a contract he never agreed too. You clearly do not understand the law when it comes to private car parks.
Houdini Logic Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 You clearly do not understand the law when it comes to private car parks. That's about as nice as it could be put. Time to move on from this conversation I reckon...
Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 A contract doesn't have to be physically signed in some circumstances, as long as it's clearly signed that "by entering you agree to the terms and conditions" then by parking, you have entered into a contract. Same with some websites etc., it's not always practical to have a signed document between two parties. It's pretty simple.
Nick Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 The point is, there is no signed agreement in place. You can't be held subject to a contract you haven't accepted. You aren't breaking a law, you aren't breaking a contract, you aren't even breaking an agreement. Only a mug would pay. Correct. Technically when you park on private land you are entering into a contract. In the eyes of the court when you park the car you are accepting the terms and conditions of the landlord. Nope. It is their responsibility to prove you entered into a contract knowingly with a period of reflection/contemplation. It's best to stick to one of the dedicated forums for this sort of thing. But essentially you used to be able to just ignore these invoices because they could only go after the driver of the vehicle. Now they are able to go after the registered keeper so you can't ignore them so easily. They have little chance of winning their case in court, but some tend to chance the fact that the keeper will ignore the court and they will win by default or present a poor case which gives them the chance. It's also as much about trying to strike fear into their victims as anything else. Private companies aren't allowed to charge fines or penalties, only for costs incurred when a contact is breached. So in this case the person overstaying in a free car park has denied the car park the chance to charge someone else £0.00. The parking ticket isn't for trespass, its for breaking a contract he never agreed too. Correct. You clearly do not understand the law when it comes to private car parks. Nope - you are still not getting this mate! It's you that is not grasping the legalities in this instance. That's about as nice as it could be put. Time to move on from this conversation I reckon... Nope it's not him that's not grasping this..........
Strokes Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 You clearly do not understand the law when it comes to private car parks.Pah, i fight these things all the time and have yet to have been given any county court order. If you want to pay them then thats up to you pal but you really need to look a little deeper into these things.
Strokes Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 Correct. Nope. It is their responsibility to prove you entered into a contract knowingly with a period of reflection/contemplation. Correct. Nope - you are still not getting this mate! It's you that is not grasping the legalities in this instance. Nope it's not him that's not grasping this.......... Cheers
Strokes Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 I wonder if you put a slight spelling mistake on your V5 and dont include your driving licence number, the DVLA would add you as a different person? Therefore removing all contractual rights of the car park co?
GingerrrFox Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 It is their responsibility to prove you entered into a contract knowingly with a period of reflection/contemplation. The big sign at the entrance is proof that you are entering a private car park and must adhere to the land owners terms and conditions. Plus the additional signage all around these car park's ensure people know how long they can park there for. You try standing in court and saying you didn't know how long you could park there for when they prove they have adequately displayed the regulations. I've got a friend who parked in the same supermarket car park whilst working in Leeds for 2 years. He was as smug as you like ignoring all the letters etc, finally he got sent a CCJ, which he also ignored. He then found he was found guilty in his absence and was heavily fined and had to pay the car park company's legal fees. You run a risky game if you think it's all bollocks.
Nick Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 The big sign at the entrance is proof that you are entering a private car park and must adhere to the land owners terms and conditions. Plus the additional signage all around these car park's ensure people know how long they can park there for. You try standing in court and saying you didn't know how long you could park there for when they prove they have adequately displayed the regulations. I've got a friend who parked in the same supermarket car park whilst working in Leeds for 2 years. He was as smug as you like ignoring all the letters etc, finally he got sent a CCJ, which he also ignored. He then found he was found guilty in his absence and was heavily fined and had to pay the car park company's legal fees. You run a risky game if you think it's all bollocks. No it's not! Well his first mistake was communicating with them and acknowledging receipt of letters or that he was driving the car. Historically that's the first thing they would have to have proven.
GingerrrFox Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 No it's not! Well his first mistake was communicating with them and acknowledging receipt of letters or that he was driving the car. Historically that's the first thing they would have to have proven. He didn't respond to anything, that is my point he ignored everything for 2 years until the court found him guilty in his absence. They had CCTV of him leaving his car. Fair enough you might get away with leaving your car once but anybody who is doing it on a regular basis needs to understand that sometimes you are the unlucky one that they focus on.
Strokes Posted 28 July 2014 Posted 28 July 2014 He'd still have probably won if he turned up.He would have, if he had just denied liability.
AyewJoking Posted 29 July 2014 Posted 29 July 2014 Just tell them you leave the car "in gear" so it was never actually "parked". That should stand up in court.
Vlad the Fox Posted 29 July 2014 Posted 29 July 2014 I won't say too much while this is ongoing but the forum ADK put me intouch with is very helpful. As of yet I haven't made contact with the parking company at all throughout this but the letter I've received now is from the courts and I do need to respond to that and outline a defence. Also further to the contract issues mentioned above the contract appears to be with the parking company who aren't the landowners so if anything it's a case of trespass rather than contract? The charge isn't a true pre estimate of costs (free carpark) and as I spent money in the shop did they lose out?
MooseBreath Posted 29 July 2014 Posted 29 July 2014 How did they get your address to send you a letter? I got a couple of tickets for parking in my own residential car park without a permit (my permit had in fact fallen off my dashboard) and was advised to just ignore them on the basis that these private companies have no access to your address or personal details unless you tell them, so as long as you don't make any contact there's nothing they can do. Don't know how right that is, but I've heard nothing in the approx ten months since I got the tickets. This doesn't work for official ticketers though apparently as they have access to dvla database
Strokes Posted 29 July 2014 Posted 29 July 2014 How did they get your address to send you a letter? I got a couple of tickets for parking in my own residential car park without a permit (my permit had in fact fallen off my dashboard) and was advised to just ignore them on the basis that these private companies have no access to your address or personal details unless you tell them, so as long as you don't make any contact there's nothing they can do. Don't know how right that is, but I've heard nothing in the approx ten months since I got the tickets. This doesn't work for official ticketers though apparently as they have access to dvla database The DVLA will sell your details to pretty much anyone.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.