Safe standing areas

[banko71]

I know i may get shot down for this but i have seen that the SFA are to discuss the use of safe standing areas at all scottish premier league grounds.

Do you think our own FA would look at this.I know there has been many threads about atmosphere and standing but it seems that this may now happen.

I would just like peoples thoughts on the matter.As for someone who has been banned in the past for standing i would welcome it.

Would it improve the atmophere?

It would certainly increase the capacity of all grounds and it would also be a little bit cheaper to get in.

[Dan]

Best movement towards it yet.

The fact Scotland are considering it now really will show England up if we don't.

In-fact, if we don't now, we'll be an absolute disgrace.

[purpleronnie]

Its great that scottish clubs can now have standing areas but I believe their rules are different to ours making it a lot easier for them to agree on standing areas stadiums, cant see it ever happening over here.

[ajthefox]

there's a petition for it somewhere on here, if anyone can find that thread it'd be worth a bump

[jonlcfc1990]

Has to be done the benefits out weigh the negatives

Better atmosphere +

Bigger capacity+

No arguing with stewards+

No arguing with sitting fans+

No banning orders for standing fans+

I think the stewards have relaxed a bit in recent years but they still like to put up a fight sometimes

[ithuriel]

except that the ground is in no way designed for standing and thus the health and safety peeps would never allow it.

you see how steep the gradient is for the stands, imagine some numpty falling into the crowd and how many would sue to the football club for injuries sustained and rebuilding a stand would cost a fortune.

[lcfc"weasel"]

except that the ground is in no way designed for standing and thus the health and safety peeps would never allow it.

you see how steep the gradient is for the stands, imagine some numpty falling into the crowd and how many would sue to the football club for injuries sustained and rebuilding a stand would cost a fortune.

People stand now, with seats, in a ground 'unsafe for standing' have any been seriously hurt? No. There is absolutely no argument against standing whatsoever, it happens in seating area's, which is more unsafe than it happening in area's designed for standing. It's gonna happen no matter what, so you need to make it as 'safe' as possible, not that there is any real need, a hell of a lot of people stand up for the majority of the day, they don't need safety regulations to do so.

[Corky]

How many SPL grounds are new builds? I would've thought most stands would be converted terraces, so it's not too difficult to just take the seats out and go back to what it was before.

[ithuriel]

I've worked as a steward in the away section and can tell you i've seen one or two slip down those steps which is what the stand is without seating, one good surge if there we're no seating could see a nasty pile up of peeps so there is no way they health and safety exec would allow standing in those stand's even if it we're legal.

I enjoyed standing when i was younger at filbert street but you need a gentler incline and for the club it just is not worth the money in rebuilding a stand, even if it we're to be made legal again.

I'm not arguing against standing but you have to look at practicalities, costs and the fact that we are in a culture where lawyers ambulance chase

[purpleronnie]

But the powers that be in England will always tow the line that sitting is instringently safer than standing, the fact there might be fans that stand behind their seats won't concern them as its up to the clubs to enforce the rules and regulations passing the buck will always be the case here, scotland doesnt necessarily have to abide by those same rules as we do, and the fact they aren't overshadowed by hillsborough will always mean its much more likely that scorland will introduce it and our stadiums will never have them. Moreover attendances in scotland aren't excatly booming and theres been many things discussed to address this, friday night football being one of them and now standing, the EPL certainly doesnt have to worry about bringing standing areas in to boost attendances.

Everything is against standing being reintroduced in england, unfortunately for us.

[Guest Bilo]

I should point out that safe standing and terracing are not actually one and the same. This does not herald a return to the old style terracing that was frankly unsafe but is something quite distinct.

Safe standing is designed with, well, safety in mind and is far more advanced. When Lord Justice Taylor said 'standing is not intrinsically unsafe,' he was referring to models such as this.

Stand gradients are less of an issue than you would think, as there are guard rails on every row that prevent the surging associated with old style terraces. This if anything makes them far safer than standing in a seated area, increases capacity and improves atmosphere. It should be a no brainer but this is England we're talking about.

[Dan]

But the powers that be in England will always tow the line that sitting is instringently safer than standing, the fact there might be fans that stand behind their seats won't concern them as its up to the clubs to enforce the rules and regulations passing the buck will always be the case here, scotland doesnt necessarily have to abide by those same rules as we do, and the fact they aren't overshadowed by hillsborough will always mean its much more likely that scorland will introduce it and our stadiums will never have them. Moreover attendances in scotland aren't excatly booming and theres been many things discussed to address this, friday night football being one of them and now standing, the EPL certainly doesnt have to worry about bringing standing areas in to boost attendances.

Everything is against standing being reintroduced in england, unfortunately for us.

Everything except common sense.

If we don't have it, it'll be an absolute joke.

[davieG]

I've worked as a steward in the away section and can tell you i've seen one or two slip down those steps which is what the stand is without seating, one good surge if there we're no seating could see a nasty pile up of peeps so there is no way they health and safety exec would allow standing in those stand's even if it we're legal.

I enjoyed standing when i was younger at filbert street but you need a gentler incline and for the club it just is not worth the money in rebuilding a stand, even if it we're to be made legal again.

I'm not arguing against standing but you have to look at practicalities, costs and the fact that we are in a culture where lawyers ambulance chase

....and yet those steps are designed to provide a safe egress of fans from the stadium so if they are as dangerous as you suggest, and surges at the end of a game are not unknown why were they designed this way?

Surely some H&S guru has deemed the steps as perfectly safe for standing / walking down / up?

[accessory]

The Ibrox disaster, even though it wasn't caused by terracing as such, meant Rangers went all-seater long before any English sides did.

I doubt whether they, or Celtic for that matter, will look at bringing back terracing any time soon - especially as neither is exactly flushed with cash right now.

[purpleronnie]

The Ibrox disaster, even though it wasn't caused by terracing as such, meant Rangers went all-seater long before any English sides did.

I doubt whether they, or Celtic for that matter, will look at bringing back terracing any time soon - especially as neither is exactly flushed with cash right now.

Plus both have areas where fans are allowed to stand without hassle already, thats in itself would be nice in england, but clubs genuinely seem to listen to fans in scotland, I read about motherwell letting fans stand and the club had a seperate risk assessment in that part of the ground which allows the fans to stand, I cant see those things being allowed in england and that may well hark back to the fact they don't have our strict rules, but it might be because they are more open or at least have a shred of common sense, something that seems to be missing within our stadiums.

[banko71]

[ithuriel]

....and yet those steps are designed to provide a safe egress of fans from the stadium so if they are as dangerous as you suggest, and surges at the end of a game are not unknown why were they designed this way?

Surely some H&S guru has deemed the steps as perfectly safe for standing / walking down / up?

It is one thing to have an orderly exit and quite another to have peeps jumping up and down in excitement, though seeing a poznan collapse down the stand would be mildly ammusing

[accessory]

One significant factor in this debate is the attitude of the Football Safety Officers Association.

As long as this well-organised, well-funded group, comprising mostly of jobsworths like our own Kevin Barclay, remain so implacably opposed to the reintroduction of standing areas, there is little hope of the FA being swayed from its current stance.

And with every year that passes, the chances of building a consensus among fans to demand change recedes even further.

[ithuriel]

If you really want standing areas back the best way is to first pester the government, if they we're to change the law then you start pestering the club.

What you would need is a strong group of supporters from every football club in unity to have a standing area implemented in the ground.

[banko71]

safestanding roadshow.co.uk

[purpleronnie]

If you really want standing areas back the best way is to first pester the government, if they we're to change the law then you start pestering the club.

What you would need is a strong group of supporters from every football club in unity to have a standing area implemented in the ground.

Pipe dream I'm afraid.

[banko71]

One significant factor in this debate is the attitude of the Football Safety Officers Association.

As long as this well-organised, well-funded group, comprising mostly of jobsworths like our own Kevin Barclay, remain so implacably opposed to the reintroduction of standing areas, there is little hope of the FA being swayed from its current stance.

And with every year that passes, the chances of building a consensus among fans to demand change recedes even further.

From our point off view as long as this man is at our club it will be a long hard fight.

The man is a disgrace.

Nothing personal but i would love to bump into him in a very dark alley.

[lcfc"weasel"]

Plus both have areas where fans are allowed to stand without hassle already, thats in itself would be nice in england, but clubs genuinely seem to listen to fans in scotland, I read about motherwell letting fans stand and the club had a seperate risk assessment in that part of the ground which allows the fans to stand, I cant see those things being allowed in england and that may well hark back to the fact they don't have our strict rules, but it might be because they are more open or at least have a shred of common sense, something that seems to be missing within our stadiums.

Not all too sure this happens regularly at Parkhead.

I've worked as a steward in the away section and can tell you i've seen one or two slip down those steps which is what the stand is without seating, one good surge if there we're no seating could see a nasty pile up of peeps so there is no way they health and safety exec would allow standing in those stand's even if it we're legal.

I enjoyed standing when i was younger at filbert street but you need a gentler incline and for the club it just is not worth the money in rebuilding a stand, even if it we're to be made legal again.

I'm not arguing against standing but you have to look at practicalities, costs and the fact that we are in a culture where lawyers ambulance chase

Well, the guys a **** so I honestly don't give 200 billion heaps of diarrhoea cow-shit what he thinks, the sooner he ****s off the much better off we'll be, seriously wish him an extremely painful accident, preferably including daffodils in some form.

[Bugg]

Safe standing really shouldn't be a problem if it is done like in Germany. I'm sure that over there your are given a plot number which is basically the same as a seat number to stand in, meaning that there shouldn't be a problem with crowd overcrowding and causing a Hillsborough-like disaster which a lot of people seem to think will happen if safe standing is re-introduced.

[Saxondale]

Everything except common sense.

As we well know, common sense and 'health and safety' and generally worlds apart.