Grey Fox Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 He actually got the assist though. I thought he said 'set up'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty78 Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 A better first touch from Beckford and he might well've done. Can anyone remember Beckford's goal scoring stats (cup goals not included)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Fox Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 He actually got the assist though. 3 mins 30: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 Dyer's assists are absolutely piss poor 5 assists in 3 years that tells its own story, fair enough his pace is an asset but the fact that we don't create no where near enough assists from the centre of the midfield unless that is rectified by getting a playmaker aka Whittingham or someone of that ilk, the wingers have to offer more to their game, Marshall looks like he is doing that but Dyer is no where near good enough to be in the starting 11. I tried to explain yesterday, though it seems to have fallen on deaf ears, that 'assisting' goals is a two way street. It's as much about the strikers making those clever runs and keeping up with the wingers, as it's about the wingers putting in through balls and accurate crosses every time. Last season I can't recollect us scoring hardly any goals from crosses. Nuge popped up with a couple or three I think. Unless I was watching different games, there were plenty of times that Gallagher or Ben drifted in a lovely cross from the right, or Lloyd fizzed one in from the left and there was literally no one in a City shirt muscling in for the header or gambling to get onto the end of a low cross. Quite often, nothing. Does this make the cross dire, no pun intended, or the striker at fault for not making that effort to get on the end of something? It's of no coincidence, to me, that both Gally and Dyer both looked better players when feeding in Howard and Fryatt. I think it's easy to blame both our wing players excessively. Attacking is a team game and if we can gel as an attacking force, both Gally and Dyer will continue to score goals and increase their number of assists. Last season was a strange one... Nugent was our top 'assister' with a grand total of 8. Does this mean both Gally and Dyer are inept ( and Marshall) or that something else was wrong in the team when we were going forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpaM Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 Could have sworn beckford scored one direct from a goal kick last season, surely that counts as an assist from kasper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamark Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 First round v Man City.Lloyd saw the chance of short corner before anyone else ,quickly to it and Bamba(remember him)first touch in the shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 Seeing as stats are evil I'm still waiting for a goal which Lloyd inadvertently set up by virtue of his speed to be mentioned. Form an orderly queue everyone. 2:10ish, he wouldn't have had an assist marked by his name for that goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 3 mins 30: You're not getting the challenge are you. Fans of Lloyd refer to all the attacks and subsequent goals we score thanks to Lloyd's pace which can't be measured in the stats. That is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 2:10ish, he wouldn't have had an assist marked by his name for that goal There's ONE. That bumps him up to 6 in 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 I tried to explain yesterday, though it seems to have fallen on deaf ears, that 'assisting' goals is a two way street. It's as much about the strikers making those clever runs and keeping up with the wingers, as it's about the wingers putting in through balls and accurate crosses every time. Last season I can't recollect us scoring hardly any goals from crosses. Nuge popped up with a couple or three I think. Unless I was watching different games, there were plenty of times that Gallagher or Ben drifted in a lovely cross from the right, or Lloyd fizzed one in from the left and there was literally no one in a City shirt muscling in for the header or gambling to get onto the end of a low cross. Quite often, nothing. Does this make the cross dire, no pun intended, or the striker at fault for not making that effort to get on the end of something? It's of no coincidence, to me, that both Gally and Dyer both looked better players when feeding in Howard and Fryatt. I think it's easy to blame both our wing players excessively. Attacking is a team game and if we can gel as an attacking force, both Gally and Dyer will continue to score goals and increase their number of assists. Last season was a strange one... Nugent was our top 'assister' with a grand total of 8. Does this mean both Gally and Dyer are inept ( and Marshall) or that something else was wrong in the team when we were going forward? I would say that as over the last 3 years Gally and Dyer have played on the wing and none of Fryatt, Howard, Vassel, Schlupp, Beckford, Yakubu, Nugent, Waghorn or Kamara have prospered from their crosses then perhaps there might be something amiss with their crossing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Fox Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 You're not getting the challenge are you. Fans of Lloyd refer to all the attacks and subsequent goals we score thanks to Lloyd's pace which can't be measured in the stats. That is not one of them. Well in that case I think Jimbo has posted a good example above. Without a full log of assists of assists, or even assists of assists of assists, then it's not an easy task. As I said before, if I worked for opta or had all day everyday to sift through videos, I could pretty much make anyone look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 Well in that case I think Jimbo has posted a good example above. Without a full log of assists of assists, or even assists of assists of assists, then it's not an easy task. As I said before, if I worked for opta or had all day everyday to sift through videos, I could pretty much make anyone look good. But you'd assume if he's so effective at it, and it's what makes him such an asset to the team, that off the top of your head you could name one or two occasions with relative ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 I would say that as over the last 3 years Gally and Dyer have played on the wing and none of Fryatt, Howard, Vassel, Schlupp, Beckford, Yakubu, Nugent, Waghorn or Kamara have prospered from their crosses then perhaps there might be something amiss with their crossing. The season in league one... We romped it didn't we with Fryatt scoring tons and tons of goals. Didn't Dyer play on the left hand side for most of the season? The first Chanpionship season under Nige.. Didn't we make the play offs with Lloyd Dyer playing most of the season? To be honest I can't really recollect, but I think he did? Then last season.... The whole team was in disarray, and only improved when Pearson returned and Lloyd came back into the team. You are focussing solely on 'assists' without taking into account the space behind the defence that Lloyds pace brings. He worries defenders which makes space for the other strikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Fox Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 But you'd assume if he's so effective at it, and it's what makes him such an asset to the team, that off the top of your head you could name one or two occasions with relative ease. I'm not the one saying he is. That was others. If you think back to my original point, which I still stand by, I simply said I didn't think it was a fair comparison to include penalties in a goals to shots ratio statistic. That's my only point. If you want to try and move me onto something else to deflect from that, fine, but I won't change that view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 The season in league one... We romped it didn't we with Fryatt scoring tons and tons of goals. Didn't Dyer play on the left hand side for most of the season? The first Chanpionship season under Nige.. Didn't we make the play offs with Lloyd Dyer playing most of the season? To be honest I can't really recollect, but I think he did? Then last season.... The whole team was in disarray, and only improved when Pearson returned and Lloyd came back into the team. You are focussing solely on 'assists' without taking into account the space behind the defence that Lloyds pace brings. He worries defenders which makes space for the other strikers. 1 assist from 33 appearances (25 starts) in 09/10. ONE ASSIST. ONE ****ING ASSIST. Thats one less than N'Guessan for crying out loud. That bloke was just a French Trevor Benjamin. That season Lloyd made the least amount of appearances out of the last 3 years. One could argue we do better without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 1 assist from 33 appearances (25 starts) in 09/10. ONE ASSIST. ONE ****ING ASSIST. Thats one less than N'Guessan for crying out loud. That bloke was just a French Trevor Benjamin. That season Lloyd made the least amount of appearances out of the last 3 years. One could argue we do better without him. You seem to have a major bee in your bonnet about Dyer mate. I've still got faith in his ability so I'm hoping for a good season from the lad. He may not play much with Knocky about but I like Dyer as a player. Time will tell and if he has a stinker this year I'll bow down to your stats. I have a feeling he's gonna be an important player for us this year. Maybe from the bench but still important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 You seem to have a major bee in your bonnet about Dyer mate. I've still got faith in his ability so I'm hoping for a good season from the lad. He may not play much with Knocky about but I like Dyer as a player. Time will tell and if he has a stinker this year I'll bow down to your stats. I have a feeling he's gonna be an important player for us this year. Maybe from the bench but still important. I have a major bee in my bonnet. I've always accepted that at City we'll have limited players, or players who lack just that one thing which would see them play for more established sides, but throughout all of this I expect that they have more pluses than minuses. My problem is that with Lloyd there is nothing to indicate that his one plus (being quite quick) outweighs him numerous faluts. I am happy to be proved wrong as I have been with Dickov (mk1), Deane, Cottee, Marshall, McKinnley, King (weirdly I'm probably now in the wrong camp on King), Impey but in four years of watching Dyer there's been nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 I have a major bee in my bonnet. I've always accepted that at City we'll have limited players, or players who lack just that one thing which would see them play for more established sides, but throughout all of this I expect that they have more pluses than minuses. My problem is that with Lloyd there is nothing to indicate that his one plus (being quite quick) outweighs him numerous faluts. I am happy to be proved wrong as I have been with Dickov (mk1), Deane, Cottee, Marshall, McKinnley, King (weirdly I'm probably now in the wrong camp on King), Impey but in four years of watching Dyer there's been nothing. I'm more surprised at the list you have been 'proven wrong' at. Did you not think Cottee and Marshall for instance, were gonna be good players for the club? Cottee was always class and Marshall had scored goals everywhere he had ever played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 I'm more surprised at the list you have been 'proven wrong' at. Did you not think Cottee and Marshall for instance, were gonna be good players for the club? Cottee was always class and Marshall had scored goals everywhere he had ever played. Cottee had been away in Malaysia and had a really tough time. He was loaned out to Brum for a bit and I recall him getting booed when he came on v Northampton in the FA cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 Cottee had been away in Malaysia and had a really tough time. He was loaned out to Brum for a bit and I recall him getting booed when he came on v Northampton in the FA cup. Yeah you're right, I vaguely recall Cottee had a hard time in Malaysia. Form temporary, class permanent though I guess. Marshall was a real coup cos 'all he did was score goals'! Don't get me wrong mate, Dyer is not in the same league as these two players and the stats you give are really pretty damning to be fair. They surprise me more than anything else. However, like Beckford, I just have this sneaky feeling, from watching football for donkeys ages, that Lloyd could be due a good season. As I said, if I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 Yeah you're right, I vaguely recall Cottee had a hard time in Malaysia. Form temporary, class permanent though I guess. Marshall was a real coup cos 'all he did was score goals'! Don't get me wrong mate, Dyer is not in the same league as these two players and the stats you give are really pretty damning to be fair. They surprise me more than anything else. However, like Beckford, I just have this sneaky feeling, from watching football for donkeys ages, that Lloyd could be due a good season. As I said, if I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it. Beckford is different from Lloyd in that his stats aren't damning and therefore believing that he will come good is not too much of a leap of faith. I know many don't count his cup goals but here's a comparison with Nugent for ALL games Beckford 80 shots (40 on 40 off) 3 hit post Goals 15 Assists 4 So when he hits the target he scores with every 2.5 shots. Nugent 112 shots (57 on 55 off) 4 hit post Goals 16 Assists 9 When Nuge hits the target he scores with every 3 and bit shots. If we use just the league then Beckford 33 starts 6 sub 63 shots (32 on 31 off) 2 hit post. Goals 9 Assists 3 So when he hits the target he scores with every 2.5 shots. Nugent 41 starts 1 sub 102 shots (52 on 50 off) 3 hit post Goals 15 Assists 8 When Nuge hits the target he scores with every 3 and bit shots. Apart from the massively important goals total the two players have remained consistent. Beckford is the more accurate striker, Nugent the more creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetintedspecs Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 Lies damn lies and statistics I like Lloydy he bleeds blue and can turn a game with his effort and I think when he plays next season he will benefit from the blistering pace of Vardy alongside! Mike please manipulate the JB stats allowing for his surly attitude and unfulfilled promise please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 Lies damn lies and statistics I like Lloydy he bleeds blue and can turn a game with his effort and I think when he plays next season he will benefit from the blistering pace of Vardy alongside! Mike please manipulate the JB stats allowing for his surly attitude and unfulfilled promise please Your recent contributions to the forum are very welcome IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetintedspecs Posted 6 August 2012 Share Posted 6 August 2012 Your recent contributions to the forum are very welcome IMO. Thanks Col I welcome all opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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