Pearson and Momentum

[seenitall]

Typical response from you when you don't have a sensible response.

At least I'm consistent then - something that's been sorely missing round these parts this year

[Mark_w]

I would like to see some reasons to convince me that NP can get us promoted from this division?

No you don't, we've given you lots of good reasons and you've ignored them all.

[cc_star]

Nige for president

Love the sarcasm every time someone points out the lack of facts and hypocrisy of all your posts

At the end of the day we all want success and if NP isn't the man to deliver, than why are we hellbent in saying he is the right man for the job? I would like to see some reasons to convince me that NP can get us promoted from this division? nothing on his CV to show for it, isn't that what the owners look for? It depends the owners goals are you saw by the sacking of Sven it was short terminism because they want promotion or am I wrong.

The owners backed Sven to win the division, but all he delivered was enough points per game to finish in 14th, so he was dispensed with

The appointment of NP is a change of tact, they've shed a load of high wage earners in Abe, Johnson probably Ball & others. yet more will be gone in the summer and they talk about long term now, also they're rarely here these days, or certainly not as often as when the flags were out and they'd pumped enough ££££'s in to go through the season unbeaten & win at a canter, before it all ballsed up by the short-termism tactics of the aforementioned manager.

It'd be ridiculous to employ a manager who can build teams, then not allow him the close season to actually build it... Most people can see that, expect a select few... Let's face you're dying to write Mccarthy for Manager in all your posts, but after initially being laughed off the board you've just implied it, rather than said it.

Although a win on Tuesday & you'd probably be calling for Nige to be knighted, the amount you change your mind when a result goes for or against us.

[Babylon]

At the end of the day we all want success and if NP isn't the man to deliver, than why are we hellbent in saying he is the right man for the job?

How many people are saying he is? 99.9% are saying he should be given the chance to prove it one way or another.

What had Sven done in the last 10 years to show he can do it in this league?

Has Mick McCarthy proven he can get teams turned around and promoted in 6 months, No.

As I said before to you, if Wolves or Sunderland has sacked him in his first year for failing to get promoted, he'd never have been there a year or two later to actually get them promoted.

People seem to have the mentality of keep sacking every manager we have after 5 months until we luck out and find one that happens to work a miracle. How often does that happen for teams? Every 20/25 years?

[Guest Col city fan]

Bamba, Drinkwater and Dyer

I agree... That would have been my midfield yesterday

[Babylon]

Who gives a f88k about Sven? That is history now and I would have thought a quality manager with half of his old team and by anybody's (perhaps not yours) reckoning a better keeper and at least marginally better defenders (Konch/Pelts/St Ledg) and a striker of Nugents quality could have turned it around being couple of points off the play offs and with best part of 30 games left - did he - did he my arse.

Well you obviously because you keep bleating on about him getting enough time. Nugent or Yakubu? Peltier or Naughton? St Ledger or Vitor.

[seenitall]

Well you obviously because you keep bleating on about him getting enough time. Nugent or Yakubu? Peltier or Naughton? St Ledger or Vitor.

You'll be dying to correct me but didn't Sven sign all 6 of those players? I think you need to move on - we have our poor manager now - let's all give him some time, which to be fair, if it looked like he had enough talent to do the job most would be prepared to do - but he can't do it, can he - half a seasons worth of games and he is 6 points away from the play offs, worse than when he arrived - how can he not hold his hands up for that?

[Happy Fox]

Would sacking NP be the end of the world of course not provided we get someone in who has the know how to gets team promoted from this division ,Sven never had that and neither does NP. Giving NP time won't make much of a difference because the mistakes are still reappearing. Things have improved albeit at a very slow rate I appreciate Babs that your willing to give NP time but the owners want promotion next season and to the hierarchy imo won't be convinced that we can achieve promotion under NP's tenure because for the best part of 32 games and we have failed to get into the playoffs.

[Raw Dykes]

At least I'm consistent then - something that's been sorely missing round these parts this year

22nd Oct 2011. 13th in the table. Sven sacked after a year in the job. seenitall says, "Boo! Rubbish decision! He needs more time!"

15th April 2012. 9th in the table. NP been here 5 months. seenitall says, "Sack him! He's not a proper manager!"

[Babylon]

You'll be dying to correct me but didn't Sven sign all 6 of those players?

Yes Sven did sign six players expensively and they all have failed to get us in to the top six... so I'm not sure what your point is on that one.

we have our poor manager now

If he is poor you will admit Sven was also poor then?

half a seasons worth of games and he is 6 points away from the play offs, worse than when he arrived

How many times do you need it pointing out that it's more because we've played more games now. We were two off after 12, we could well have been 4 off after 24 and 6 off after 36 under dear old Sven. Keep banging that drum though.

[Babylon]

22nd Oct 2011. 13th in the table. Sven sacked after a year in the job. seenitall says, "Boo! Rubbish decision! He needs more time!"

15th April 2012. 9th in the table. NP been here 5 months. seenitall says, "Sack him! He's not a proper manager!"

Game, Set, Match to Raw Dykes

[Raw Dykes]

You'll be dying to correct me but didn't Sven sign all 6 of those players? I think you need to move on - we have our poor manager now - let's all give him some time, which to be fair, if it looked like he had enough talent to do the job most would be prepared to do - but he can't do it, can he - half a seasons worth of games and he is 6 points away from the play offs, worse than when he arrived - how can he not hold his hands up for that?

Is it worse? We're 22 points away from relegation now. When NP arrived, we were only 9 points away. I've already gone to great lengths to explain this to you. You're either being deliberately ignorant, or you're just being plain ignorant.

So, what's better? 9 points above relegation zone or 22 points above relegation zone? Or, is it not a fair and accurate indication of success to compare points gaps earlier in the season, when the overall points spread from the top to the bottom is small, to points gaps late on in the season when points gaps across the board are much greater?

What you should do is look at points per games, or position in the league table if you want a fair and accurate way of comparing managers' success, but you don't like to do this, because when you do, you don't like the answer. You don't like to admit that the facts don't support your strange, baseless, uninformed opinions of the previous and current managers.

[Babylon]

Is it worse? We're 22 points away from relegation now. When NP arrived, we were only 9 points away. I've already gone to great lengths to explain this to you. You're either being deliberately ignorant, or you're just being plain ignorant.

So, what's better? 9 points above relegation zone or 22 points above relegation zone? Or, is it not a fair and accurate indication of success to compare points gaps earlier in the season, when the overall points spread from the top to the bottom is small, to points gaps late on in the season when points gaps across the board are much greater?

What you should do is look at points per games, or position in the league table if you want a fair and accurate way of comparing managers' success, but you don't like to do this, because when you do, you don't like the answer. You don't like to admit that the facts don't support your strange, baseless, uninformed opinions of the previous and current managers.

Raw Dykes is on fire, I think I can go off and do some work now safe in the knowledge you're here dispelling his myths.

[Guy]

When we finished 5th in 2009/10 under Pearson, how much was that down to a winning momentum from the League One campaign? I think back to Bristol City's first season in the Championship when they finished in the play-offs under Gary Johnson. Subsequent years saw them struggle in the lower part of the table and Johnson was eventually given the boot. Look where he is now. We've seen with the likes of Norwich and Southampton how a successful season in League One has regalvanised them.

I'm not saying that Pearson is similar to Gary Johnson, but I often wonder if Pearson's success was largely down to momentum or his managerial ability. It's probably somewhere in between the two.

You make an interesting point and quite a complicated thread to discuss I'd say. Not read any other posts on this thread after the OP's one so this might be guilty of repetition!

Re the momentum argument, the difference for us is that Bristol City didn't throw money at the team the following season (or two) after their play off final failure against Hull in 2008, primarily as they didn't have such financial backing and they then appointed a lesser manager after Gary Johnson left (Keith Millen) to bring them seasons of mediocrity to follow....even if they always seem to beat us in the mian! I also think that Bristol team was one of those who suffered the losing play off finalist syndrome and never quite recovered from doing so - a bit like Cardiff have done since Blackpool beat them two seasons ago, even though they've always remained a top six side.

I get what you're saying though and it will be one of those things that only time will tell on re the notion of Pearson being a momentum specialist-only manager perhaps! Then again he was in the process of building up Hull as a new challenge after his successful first spell with us so I think he's more than a one trick pony in management. Norwich last season demonstrated the traits of momentum success with two consecutive promotions and who knows if Pearson could've emultaed what Paul Lambert has done with Norwich in a momentum sense had we not blown it in the play offs two years ago and been in the Prem. by now, since 2010. The Mandyrich v Thais takeover situation wasn't a theme back then either so that is another missing part to the "what ifs" here! Southampton might well do the momentum act this season too if they can keep clear of a resurgent West Ham now. If they fail to go up though and end up bowing out in the play offs instead (and then do a Bristol City for the next season or two afterwards - especially if they sell their better players in time - Lambert, Lallana, etc), then some would argue that Nigel Adkins is only a momentum manager too. Complicated stuff I know!

Indeed I think we'd fare better in the Prem. than we would in the Championship next season with our present set up - as look how we've fared against the better teams in the Championship this season and also done well against the likes of Norwich in the FA Cup. Maybe if we pull off the impossible and do reach the promised land then we'd do better next season than staying put! We have been deeply guilty of maybe under-estimating the lesser opposition in the Championship this time round (unlike last season), a trait that is probably borne of having too many prima dona players at our disposal now on fat(ter) wages since the Thais took over.

.

[seenitall]

Is it worse? We're 22 points away from relegation now. When NP arrived, we were only 9 points away. I've already gone to great lengths to explain this to you. You're either being deliberately ignorant, or you're just being plain ignorant.

So, what's better? 9 points above relegation zone or 22 points above relegation zone? Or, is it not a fair and accurate indication of success to compare points gaps earlier in the season, when the overall points spread from the top to the bottom is small, to points gaps late on in the season when points gaps across the board are much greater?

What you should do is look at points per games, or position in the league table if you want a fair and accurate way of comparing managers' success, but you don't like to do this, because when you do, you don't like the answer. You don't like to admit that the facts don't support your strange, baseless, uninformed opinions of the previous and current managers.

So we are a better team now under Nige - 6 points off play offs is an achievement - when did Leicester supporters set their sights so low? I love the answer - at first the answer is Nige will get us up because he did great at Hull and we like him. Then he doesn't but because he has not got us relegated then we are far better off than we would have been under Sven, so he has done well again? Then its not his fault we didn't go up because he hasn't had a close season to build his own team - despite Sven 'failing' last year under the same circumstances (except he had a far bigger hill to climb, what with the old bottom with 5 points after 9 games scenario)

He has performed appallingly as a manager this time round - deal with it - in most jobs being this inept after 6 months would get you fired, most City fans would not put up with this dross and the bottling it on the big occasion but for some reason there seems to be a 'love in' going on with Nige that we never afforded to guys like Micky Adams (automatic promotion 12 points clear of the third place team).

Nige has gone off the boil - maybe the sacking by MM a couple of years ago undermined his confidence but he finished below Leicester with a newly relegated team when they might have at least hoped for play offs and he has failed at Leicester this year. I wish him well but I don't see a bright future with him here

[5waller5]

Bamba, Drinkwater and Dyer

Took the words out of my mouth ... plus Marshall.

[Babylon]

So we are a better team now under Nige - 6 points off play offs is an achievement - when did Leicester supporters set their sights so low?

Good lord, he didn't say it was better. He was proving to you that it isn't worse, which is what you keep harping on about, despite it being a pile of crap.

Raw Dykes, don't even bother with the bloke. He'll just twist and turn stuff

[Guest Col city fan]

Good lord, he didn't say it was better. He was proving to you that it isn't worse, which is what you keep harping on about, despite it being a pile of crap.

Raw Dykes, don't even bother with the bloke. He'll just twist and turn stuff

Have you only just realised that!

He's been doing it since day one!

[Babylon]

Took the words out of my mouth ... plus Marshall.

So we put a CB back in to midfield, even though we failed to beat forest and P'boro with him there. Then play Drinkwater and Dyer who were terrible against Doncaster and Ipswich. Rather than actually playing people in their positions, and players who had actually had positive contributions to games against Doncaster and Ipswich.

The same people slating the line up are the same people who slated the changes at half time last week. Funnily enough they didn't say much about it at the end of the game last week.

Have you only just realised that!

He's been doing it since day one!

I'd been putting it down to him missing posts, now I know he's just being bloody ignorant on purpose!

[seenitall]

Good lord, he didn't say it was better. He was proving to you that it isn't worse, which is what you keep harping on about, despite it being a pile of crap.

Raw Dykes, don't even bother with the bloke. He'll just twist and turn stuff

If it isn't worse (which he did say) and it isn't better, which he didn't then it must be the same - but I can't believe that, so if it really isn't worse then by definition he must think it's better - don't bother with me by all means but hey, read da posts kiddo

[Mark_w]

If it isn't worse (which he did say) and it isn't better, which he didn't then it must be the same - but I can't believe that, so if it really isn't worse then by definition he must think it's better - don't bother with me by all means but hey, read da posts kiddo

Or maybe, he can believe it.

[seenitall]

So we put a CB back in to midfield, even though we failed to beat forest and P'boro with him there. Then play Drinkwater and Dyer who were terrible against Doncaster and Ipswich. Rather than actually playing people in their positions, and players who had actually had positive contributions to games against Doncaster and Ipswich.

The same people slating the line up are the same people who slated the changes at half time last week. Funnily enough they didn't say much about it at the end of the game last week.

I'd been putting it down to him missing posts, now I know he's just being bloody ignorant on purpose!

If we don't agree with Babylon we must be ignorant - can't beat an open debate

[5waller5]

So we put a CB back in to midfield, even though we failed to beat forest and P'boro with him there. Then play Drinkwater and Dyer who were terrible against Doncaster and Ipswich. Rather than actually playing people in their positions, and players who had actually had positive contributions to games against Doncaster and Ipswich.

The same people slating the line up are the same people who slated the changes at half time last week. Funnily enough they didn't say much about it at the end of the game last week.

You pick a side to do the job in hand. the job in hand was to beat Millwall, a Physical side away from home. So yes, I'd play a centre half in midfield as he provided a good shield to the back four and would allow the rest of the midfield to attack.

The games you are comparing to were against footballing sides, no need to play your physical presence in midfield.

Justifying NP's decisions is starting to make you look a bit daft Babylon ... I used to think you understood football.

[seenitall]

You make an interesting point and quite a complicated thread to discuss I'd say. Not read any other posts on this thread after the OP's one so this might be guilty of repetition!

Re the momentum argument, the difference for us is that Bristol City didn't throw money at the team the following season (or two) after their play off final failure against Hull in 2008, primarily as they didn't have such financial backing and they then appointed a lesser manager after Gary Johnson left (Keith Millen) to bring them seasons of mediocrity to follow....even if they always seem to beat us in the mian! I also think that Bristol team was one of those who suffered the losing play off finalist syndrome and never quite recovered from doing so - a bit like Cardiff have done since Blackpool beat them two seasons ago, even though they've always remained a top six side.

I get what you're saying though and it will be one of those things that only time will tell on re the notion of Pearson being a momentum specialist-only manager perhaps! Then again he was in the process of building up Hull as a new challenge after his successful first spell with us so I think he's more than a one trick pony in management. Norwich last season demonstrated the traits of momentum success with two consecutive promotions and who knows if Pearson could've emultaed what Paul Lambert has done with Norwich in a momentum sense had we not blown it in the play offs two years ago and been in the Prem. by now, since 2010. The Mandyrich v Thais takeover situation wasn't a theme back then either so that is another missing part to the "what ifs" here! Southampton might well do the momentum act this season too if they can keep clear of a resurgent West Ham now. If they fail to go up though and end up bowing out in the play offs instead (and then do a Bristol City for the next season or two afterwards - especially if they sell their better players in time - Lambert, Lallana, etc), then some would argue that Nigel Adkins is only a momentum manager too. Complicated stuff I know!

Indeed I think we'd fare better in the Prem. than we would in the Championship with our present set up - as look how we've fared against the better teams in the Championship this season and also done well against the likes of Norwich in the FA Cup. We have been deeply guilty of maybe under-estimating the lesser opposition in the Championship this time round (unlike last season), a trait that is probably borne of having too many prima dona players at our disposal now on fat(ter) wages since the Thais took over.

.

Have you ever watched a Premier league match?

[Babylon]

If it isn't worse (which he did say) and it isn't better, which he didn't then it must be the same - but I can't believe that, so if it really isn't worse then by definition he must think it's better - don't bother with me by all means but hey, read da posts kiddo

You are so full of it. You said it was worse, it's not worse no matter how you want to try and twist it. He never said we were better, or that he was happy, or what his expectations were. Again, twist it all you want you're looking a clown more every post you make.