Anders Breivik

[Finnegan]

Have they arrested any of his backers and accomplices yet? Or are the lunatic fringe still claiming that he acted alone? lolz

No lizardmen could be reached for comment.

[Rincewind]

Could he be described as a socialpath? He believes he did the right thing.

[BoneDog]

I voted insane but actually he probably isnt "insane" but definately suffers from mental disability.

I think he's probably* a psychopath and not insane. There's a big difference.

There are many psychopaths in this world who seem totally normal to other people. An insane person is easy to spot, a psychopath is not.

*I say probably as I'm not convinced he fired all, if any, of the fatal shots. More likely a crack commando team were involved. Many of the people who were there said they saw at least one other shooter and that bullets were coming from all directions.

Some folk say that witness testimony can't be relied upon in situations like this and the Merah case, because of trauma, but I don't believe that. I was involved in a very traumatic event when I was 16 and I didn't crumble and not know what was going on and I trust what these people had to say about what they witnessed.

[breadandcheese]

El Empty, are you serious? Who do you think the crack commando squad were? Zionists by any chance?

Whilst I agree that Breivik was probably not a lone wolf, I suspect that that is where my agreement with you ends. I don't believe a murderer claiming he is acting for political means is an island. Just like previous far right *rseholes in this country, they've nearly always had membership of far right organisations where ideas are shared. So my guess is that others within the far right scene (maybe only a handful of people) knew about Breivik and either helped or did nothing, rather than report to the police.

Hopefully the Norwegian authorities are on top of the far right scene.

[Daggers]

I think he was sent back from the future.

[BoneDog]

El Empty, are you serious? Who do you think the crack commando squad were? Zionists by any chance?

Whilst I agree that Breivik was probably not a lone wolf, I suspect that that is where my agreement with you ends. I don't believe a murderer claiming he is acting for political means is an island. Just like previous far right *rseholes in this country, they've nearly always had membership of far right organisations where ideas are shared. So my guess is that others within the far right scene (maybe only a handful of people) knew about Breivik and either helped or did nothing, rather than report to the police.

Hopefully the Norwegian authorities are on top of the far right scene.

I am serious yes, but I wouldn't know who else was involved. I have seen reports that say his manifesto states that he supports Zionism and Israel but I haven't read his manifesto myself so I don't know if there is any truth to that at all and I'm not suggesting that I knoiw who could be involved. I think that there is truth in the eye-witness testimonies to there being more than one shooter at the island, just as I believe the eye-witness reports in the France shooting cases. One lady even bumped into the killer of the soldiers in France and described him as burly and well built with a tattoo on his face but these reports disappeared just before they set up Merah.

The Norway operation was way too technical for it to be a one man job. There are reports that there was more than one bomb near the government buildings in Oslo and even evidence that one of the bombs was inside a building. Windows were blown outwards and that doesn't happen with a car bomb parked outside a building. Regarding Israel, I do find it suspicious that Norway had just decided to pull out of the illegal operation in Libya and had also just declared that they recognize Palestine, so I have wondered if some part of Israeli intelligence played a part in the bombing, as have many others. But as I said, I don't know what happened apart from knowing that Brevik has been set up as he certainly didn't act alone.

Another thing that adds to my suspicion is the fact that the people on the island had held a 'Boycott Israel' demo two days before the killings - http://www.gilad.co....ion-to-bds.html

This guy who is a well known military veteran goes into more detail about the suspicions. I have only just seen this link myself and haven't read it all yet - http://www.veteranst...3/norway-notes/

Edit : I've got to add that Gordon Duff's thoughts in the second link regarding Mr Bolton are shared by most of the world who know of him. I've hardly ever seen anybody speak or write a good word about the man.

[BoneDog]

The second link I posted is very hard to read (I think most of it is translated by Google) although there are a few snippets of info among it all, including in the comments section. Here's a more recent link from April 17th.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/04/17/brevik-whitewash-begins-in-norway-murdochs-hand-seen/ * the views in this piece are of the author Mr Duff and not necessarily those of VeteransToday.

I don't subscribe to everything that I read in this guys writings and find some parts strange (especially the claim that the video clip is from Norweigan TV! wtf ) but I have watched him for a while on news reports and he does talk sensibly more often than not when he's on TV.

[Daggers]

This guy who is a well known military veteran goes into more detail about the suspicions. I have only just seen this link myself and haven't read it all yet - http://www.veteranst...3/norway-notes/

He doesn't go into any detail at all - he simply posts some Youtube clips.

And as far as his qualifications on the matter..."This guy who is a well known military veteran"? Well known to whom? I've never heard of him. So what if he is a vet, how does this give him the gift of insight from the other side of the Atlantic?

I'm honestly not bothered in the replies to these questions, they are rhetorical, I just wanted to piss on the fire of conspiracy because I think conspiracy theorists piss me off almost as much as god botherers.

[BoneDog]

He doesn't go into any detail at all - he simply posts some Youtube clips.

And as far as his qualifications on the matter..."This guy who is a well known military veteran"? Well known to whom? I've never heard of him. So what if he is a vet, how does this give him the gift of insight from the other side of the Atlantic?

I'm honestly not bothered in the replies to these questions, they are rhetorical, I just wanted to piss on the fire of conspiracy because I think conspiracy theorists piss me off almost as much as god botherers.

I know what you're saying about that link. I hadn't read much of it when I posted. .It is very garbled and not the usual kind of column I see on there. But it does show up some suspicions of the official story and how the story has changed.

The guy is well known around the world whether we have heard of him or not and has high level military connections and military experience. He does appear on TV quite often as an analyst and certainly knows more of terror tactics and car bombings than most, if not all of us on this board.

God botherers piss you off do they? I wouldn't let them if I were you. Just ignore them. And conspiracy theorists piss you off do they? Alot of them piss me off too. But so do 'Democracy Now' type lefties but I won't go into that as it's irrelevant and I'd be here all day.

You haven't pissed on any fire. I take it that you belong to the lunatic fringe who believe the official story about the Norway attacks then? That's a laughable thing to believe.

[breadandcheese]

El Empty, so let me get this straight, just so I understand. You complained when Merah was shot by the French authorities, accusing them of being in cahoots with Zionists, and in effect silencing Merah and stopping the "truth"/made up fiction from coming out. This was even though Merah had phoned a journalist describing the incident in details which only the murderer would have known.

Now you are saying that Breivik is potentially a Zionist stooge (you don't know but you hint that it is likely), despite CCTV footage of the bomb blast, Breivik's confession, a police investigation and an open trial in a court of law, which allows cross-examination in front of the world's spotlight.

What sort of evidence do you need before you'll accept an "official" version, as it's clear that confessions, trials, etc are not enough?

If I put a spade in front of you, you'd call it a Zionist shape-shifter.

And the serious point is that I now think you've strayed into anti-semitic territory. If I was to say that Breivik was in fact Al-Qaeda who was operating to kill non-Muslims, despite all the evidence to the contrary, based solely on a prejudicial belief that Al-Qaeda must always be behind every act of murder, then I would quite rightly be classified as islamophobic. You are dong the same, but substitute the word Zionist for Al-Qaeda. It's not anti-semitic to criticise Israeli policy, but you're not, you're taking it a step further and spreading libels, without ever defining a Zionist, nor presenting any evidence. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would hazard a guess that the majority of Zionists are Jews and the majority of Jews are Zionists, therefore you're pretty much maligning the majority of a group of people, the Jews.

There's healthy scepticism, then there's denying facts to fit a conclusion of your own. I think you've crossed the line with your comments regarding Mohammed Merah and Breivik, insinuating and speculating that ZIonists are likely to have a hand in it, based on nothing but your belief that everything evil that happens is caused by Zionists.

[Captain...]

Back to the topic of insanity, if he is to be believed he clearly embarked on this process with a clear thought and goal, and the reports of him going through conditioning to desensitise himself, dehumanise himself, to be able to carry out the act shows that he may have been insane at the time, in the sense he had modified his behaviour to such a point that he was able to do things no sane person would.

Can you actually do that? Can you actually condition yourself to the point of insanity?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/i-am-a-very-likeable-person-breivik-tells-court/story-e6frf7lf-1226334783110

A source if you hadn't already read this ^^

Then even embarking on such training for the purpose of committing such an act can be considered an act of insanity.

Insane or sane isn't really the issue here though, the question is punishment/protection of society.

He is clearly going down for a very long time either way, what I would find an interesting debate is should he be executed. I don't think there is any hope for this man to lead any sort od life in our society, so should he be incarcerated until he dies, or just executed and be done with it.

Normally I would not be in support in of capital punishment, but in this case I would make an exception as he is so far gone from being a human being.

[21st Century Fox]

He needs to be locked away for a very long time, preferably the rest of his life. Executing him wouldn't be a punishment it would lead to his martyrdom, which is exactly what he was looking for. He would do far more damage as an eternal poster boy for his cause that way.

[Webbo]

I think I read somewhere that the maximum sentence in Norway is something like 21 years.

[Captain...]

He needs to be locked away for a very long time, preferably the rest of his life. Executing him wouldn't be a punishment it would lead to his martyrdom, which is exactly what he was looking for. He would do far more damage as an eternal poster boy for his cause that way.

As opposed to being brought up in all the newspapers every time something happens to him in prison. It doesn't matter how secure you try and keep him he will be able to have more influence alive than dead. Ago Laden's death hasn't really caused any great martyrdom, and he has a lot more followers than Anders.

[Daggers]

I know what you're saying about that link. I hadn't read much of it when I posted. .It is very garbled and not the usual kind of column I see on there. But it does show up some suspicions of the official story and how the story has changed.

The guy is well known around the world whether we have heard of him or not and has high level military connections and military experience. He does appear on TV quite often as an analyst and certainly knows more of terror tactics and car bombings than most, if not all of us on this board.

God botherers piss you off do they? I wouldn't let them if I were you. Just ignore them. And conspiracy theorists piss you off do they? Alot of them piss me off too. But so do 'Democracy Now' type lefties but I won't go into that as it's irrelevant and I'd be here all day.

You haven't pissed on any fire. I take it that you belong to the lunatic fringe who believe the official story about the Norway attacks then? That's a laughable thing to believe.

*wibble*

[21st Century Fox]

As opposed to being brought up in all the newspapers every time something happens to him in prison. It doesn't matter how secure you try and keep him he will be able to have more influence alive than dead. Ago Laden's death hasn't really caused any great martyrdom, and he has a lot more followers than Anders.

That's more the fault of the media than any judicial punishment. I can't see how you'd be well placed to judge the influence of Osama Bin Laden's death on his followers. But that's the point, Brevik's death could gain him more followers.

Just replace Timothy McVeigh with Anders Brevik....

http://cjpf.org/old/sentencing/mcveigh.html

[FoxyPV]

*wibble*

[Houdini Logic]

He simply has an extreme view that he'd kill for. During most wars people will kill for a cause, people will even kill other humans for what they believe is right (murder a paedophile as an example), it just so happens that his views aren't shared by the rest of us. He thinks it's a just cause. He's not insane, he's just a '****ing idiot' to put it losely.

[Captain...]

That's more the fault of the media than any judicial punishment. I can't see how you'd be well placed to judge the influence of Osama Bin Laden's death on his followers. But that's the point, Brevik's death could gain him more followers.

Just replace Timothy McVeigh with Anders Brevik....

http://cjpf.org/old/sentencing/mcveigh.html

I can't think of anybody who has gained more followers by being killed, except Jesus. McVeigh hasn't been executed and that article is speculation. Another difference is that AB is not part of a movement as such. I think that killing leaders of movements will inspire the followers but not attract more. Seeing as AB doesn't have followers or is part of an organised terrorist movement, conspiracy theories aside. Means that his death would put an end to these things quicker than letting him live and spread his influence.

[21st Century Fox]

I can't think of anybody who has gained more followers by being killed, except Jesus. McVeigh hasn't been executed and that article is speculation. Another difference is that AB is not part of a movement as such. I think that killing leaders of movements will inspire the followers but not attract more. Seeing as AB doesn't have followers or is part of an organised terrorist movement, conspiracy theories aside. Means that his death would put an end to these things quicker than letting him live and spread his influence.

Timothy McVeigh was executed in 2001.

[Captain...]

Timothy McVeigh was executed in 2001.

I meant when that article was written trying to post on my phone not always successfully. Can you find any evidence of his movement gaining momentum after his death?

[21st Century Fox]

I meant when that article was written trying to post on my phone not always successfully. Can you find any evidence of his movement gaining momentum after his death?

Far-right, anti-government, white supremacist, christian extremists?? How would you tell?

[Captain...]

Far-right, anti-government, white supremacist, christian extremists?? How would you tell?

So that's a no then

[21st Century Fox]

So that's a no then

No that's a 'how would you tell the influence on a group of people that works out of the public eye'? Does someone have to carry out a like-for-like attack to be considered influenced? Bearing in mind these are generally the same people who still celebrate Hitler's birthday.

I can't tell you the effect Timothy McVeigh's execution had on others anymore than you can tell me the effect Osama Bin Laden's death had on others.

[Captain...]

No that's a 'how would you tell the influence on a group of people that works out of the public eye'? Does someone have to carry out a like-for-like attack to be considered influenced? Bearing in mind these are generally the same people who still celebrate Hitler's birthday.

I can't tell you the effect Timothy McVeigh's execution had on others anymore than you can tell me the effect Osama Bin Laden's death had on others.

Exactly, so it cannot be argued that they have become martyrs after being executed, it is only speculation that says that.

Take Charles Manson as an example, he has remained in custody for the last 40 years and just look at how much exposure he has had in that time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Manson#Remaining_in_view

He is probably the most famous Serial Killer in the world, and has had a number of high profile interviews and documentaries about him, and his profile is much higher than that of McVeigh, who may initially have gained a higher profile when he was sentenced to death but after being executed his influence disappeared, unlike Manson.