Jimmy Carr

[simmo1977]

If someone said to me "do you want to pay less tax and it's totally legal" then of course I would say yes.

Would I then go on tv to millions of people and berate other people for doing the same thing then no I wouldn't, because that would make me a c*%t.

[Babylon]

Whilst Carrs tax affairs are a bit more extreme than most celebs. Almost all sports people, celebs etc etc all have their money paid into companies their accountants set up. Enabling them all to have different tax breaks compared to someone on a salary. This is the norm, the press know it, the government know it. Nothing illegal, just exploiting the system

To slaughter Carr because he just happens to have a better accountant than the others seems bizarre to me. So he had a pop at tax breaks in a scripted show, why does that make him a hypocrite. It's a tv show written by a large group of people, it's not like he sat on news night slagging people off, just because the words come out of his mouth doesn't mean it's what he believes. It's TV for goodness sake.

The only people to blame are the government, if you don't want people to get away with it then don't leave any holes in the system.

[Rincewind]

I think I would keep quiet about it. Although mentioning it to one or two acquaintances would attract a lot less media coverage on a bad news day than making a video and broadcasting it to millions of people causing politicians to stir from their slumbers and rise from their coffins.

A mate of mine retired a couple of years back and last year he received a tax bill for unpaid taxes whilst in his last job. Explanation was that he paid less than he should have. As far as he was concerned his employer was deducting the right amount. He was told that if it was below a certain figure it would be written off. Also told he could pay it off in a lump sum or installments at any amount he chose. So he could pay £5 month for the rest of his life. He paid it off in one go to get rid of the debt even though it left him short.

His daughter's inlaw had a similar bill but he has chosen to fight it believing it to be wrong. It appears this has happened to a lot of people.

[Zingari]

Whilst Carrs tax affairs are a bit more extreme than most celebs. Almost all sports people, celebs etc etc all have their money paid into companies their accountants set up. Enabling them all to have different tax breaks compared to someone on a salary. This is the norm, the press know it, the government know it. Nothing illegal, just exploiting the system

To slaughter Carr because he just happens to have a better accountant than the others seems bizarre to me. So he had a pop at tax breaks in a scripted show, why does that make him a hypocrite. It's a tv show written by a large group of people, it's not like he sat on news night slagging people off, just because the words come out of his mouth doesn't mean it's what he believes. It's TV for goodness sake.

The only people to blame are the government, if you don't want people to get away with it then don't leave any holes in the system.

I agree. Governments create these loopholes (or at least allow them to continue) and then start moaning when they get used by the hoi polloi.

Will they do anything about it ? Will they fook . The faceless plutocrats who are pulling their strings will see to that .

[Tielemans63]

I'd imagine that most of the companies that make up the FTSE 100 pay less than 1% tax - It's hardly a surprise. To make an example of Jimmy Carr seems crass when what he has saved is small-fry compared to the hundreds of millions these conglomerates keep for themselves. The difference is that these companies are faceless and Jimmy Carr is well-known to the masses. The thing that pisses me off the most is Cameron's public condemnation of Carr when there are numrerous Tory benefactors who don't pay any UK tax whatsoever. Pure hypocrisy IMHO. What Carr did was wrong but let's not pertend it's not the tip of the iceberg.

[Captain...]

I agree. Governments create these loopholes (or at least allow them to continue) and then start moaning when they get used by the hoi polloi.

Will they do anything about it ? Will they fook . The faceless plutocrats who are pulling their strings will see to that .

They don't create loopholes, loopholes exist because tax is very complicated and varies all around the world, we need to be able to facilitate companies and people from outside the UK to be able to work and live and create business and jobs within the UK without crippling them with having to pay UK tax and tax on where they are from, likewise we need to be able to allow people to live, work and set-up business outside the uk to expand and make british companies successful abroad.(Edit turns out they do and I shouldn't give them any credit for not being complete toss bags)

The problem arises when some countries don't have the same rules, for example an old boss of mine went to live in Holland because he was given a 3 year tax break to relocate there as they were trying to encourage people to come to the country. Fair? Not really as he only lived there for 3 years and had no interest in Holland and moved to Austria who offered a similar tax break as soon as he had to pay tax again, Legal? yes.

Then we have the Cayman Islands which I didn't realise until just now is actually under West Minister jurisdiction,

http://www.prospectm...l-4-dispatches/

Very interesting reading, why the fvck don't they just take away their no tax status, the only reason not to is that everyone will just go to another off shore tax haven that has no ties to the UK, but seriously they are getting all pissy about people using tax havens like the Caymans, and yet they have the power to stop it being used as one.

Another great day for the Condems, and Labour are just as culpable for not doing it during their time in power.

What we really need is a global approach to tax, it doesn't matter where you are based in the world you all pay the same rate of tax, of course this would take some organisation and co-operation across the entire planet, which when we are still squabbling over pointless pointless lumps of rock will never happen, but every developed nation is blighted by tax dodgers, I am pretty sure they could figure something out.

[Steven]

Evade tax - never

Avoid tax - whenever possible.

Hypocritical politicians should shut the **** up. I believe it to be more "morally repugnant" to spend money on needlessly monitoring everyone's email, phone calls etc., in the UK or sending arms and ammunition to Libyan or Syrian "rebels".

[Babylon]

Looking forward to 8 out of 10 cats most talked about things this week.

[MooseBreath]

Everyone loves a bit of Randian rational self-interest when it comes to making or saving money, but I'm sure they'll be less keen when they get cancer and there are no hospitals, or when they come to send their kids to school and realise there are no schools left.

[MooseBreath]

You're not, I am currently paying more tax than I need to because I am set up as a sole trader and I am declaring all my invoices as income and paying the full rate of tax. I don't feel I have any right to set myself up as a business and claim expenses and pay corporation tax and then pay myself a minimum wage salary, because I am not. I am an IT contractor I have 0 expenses, all expenses are covered by the company I work for, I lose out in some ways, but get compensated in others and I am definitely much better off now, than when I was in full employment, so why shouldn't I pay more tax.

All of my peers think I am weird, they pay an accountant hundreds a year to save them thousands, and they all earn very decent amounts, there is justification out there, as self employed you don't get holiday or sick pay, you don't get pension contributions or any sort of rights really, but you get paid well to compensate.

As for Jimmy Carr, anyone questioning what he did better not have an ISA or anything similar, because that would make them a hypocrite, legal tax avoidance schemes exist to everyone, the biggest problem here is the amount of money that is involved, he is a very wealthy man, and so has lots of money to move around and not pay tax on, I still think it is a safe bet he paid more in tax this year than most on here, because he earns a lot of money. His sketch in the first post was clearly a dig at the large corporations, individuals paying 1% on 3million, is nothing compared to the amount of tax companies Barclays and Vodafone avoid/get written off.

Did you just compare avoiding millions of pounds worth of income tax with having an ISA? Must be some kind of joke?

[Rincewind]

There will always be hospitals and schools for those with money. It is those at the bottom of the ladder that will suffer.

[Babylon]

Did you just compare avoiding millions of pounds worth of income tax with having an ISA? Must be some kind of joke?

Well they are both perfectly legal ways of avoiding the payment of tax, so I can see where he is coming from.

[Captain...]

Did you just compare avoiding millions of pounds worth of income tax with having an ISA? Must be some kind of joke?

No I compared one kind of tax avoidance to another, tax avoidance is tax avoidance, he has just legally avoided paying more tax, regardless of how you do it, you are morally bound to pay your tax as determined by your income, but you are legally entitled to make provisions which could result in paying less tax.

I think the main thing here is why have you avoided the tax, is it to avoid paying tax or is it because you needed to make those changes, for example you pay into your pension to have a pension when you retire, it is tax free, but that is not why you do it, likewise charitable donations, are tax free but that is not why most people donate to charity.

ISAs are used because you don't pay income tax on your interest. Same difference smaller numbers.

As I said before however you slice it Jimmy Carr has probably paid more income tax this year than almost everyone on here, not to mention the other taxes he would have been hit with in moving this money around.

The problem is not that Jimmy Carr paid 1% tax, the problem is that this is currently legal, and has been for a very long time and is being used by many others, and will continue to be used like that until the Government do something about it.

[MooseBreath]

The money you put into an isa has already been taxed, though.

[Rincewind]

If Jimmy Carr had not joked about the tax system it would not be in the news but as he may just rely on an accountant to do what they think best he would not know although there may be some discussion and consultancy before itis done. Paperwork and signitures for example.

Everytime you go into your bank you could have someone coming up to you and saying 'Are you making the best of your savings, are you putting your money into the right account, we have some great ways for you to pay less tax on your savings. etc etc. There are countless leaflets available regarding saving schemes. So whether you earn thousands or millions there is a comparable way to pay less tax. The scale just changes as you move further up the earnings ladder So being advised to put 5 mill in a Swiss account is the same as being advised to put £20 a month into a ISA. People that moan just wish they had thought of it first.

[Captain...]

The money you put into an isa has already been taxed, though.

But the money you earn from interest by having the ISA hasn't, it is still income and is taxed in other types of accounts.

[breadandcheese]

But the money you earn from interest by having the ISA hasn't, it is still income and is taxed in other types of accounts.

The aim of an ISA is to encourage people to build up savings. It is supported by all political parties and pretty much all elements of society. It is an aim of government.

The scheme employed by Jimmy Carr is not an aim of government. However, the government should not cry about it or make tabloid gestures. If they do not believe in it, legislate. Instead, we seem to have a half-baked scheme of tabloid gestures (by all political parties) and grand statements from HMRC to scare and bully us regular folk from employing such schemes.

I still do not know if the Employment Benefit Trust tax avoidance scheme employed by Carr is illegal or not. HMRC have said they are investigating and challenging it. Can we regular members of the public have an answer so that we know whether we can employ similar tactics or not? Either we can all do it or we can't.

[flowwolf]

even a brain dead person could realise that if they were making millions every year, they should be paying more than about 1% tax.. pleading ignorance is all well and good but it still makes him a morally wrong hypocritical nob.

Absolutely bang on the nail. :thumbup: :thumbup:

[Captain...]

The aim of an ISA is to encourage people to build up savings. It is supported by all political parties and pretty much all elements of society. It is an aim of government.

The scheme employed by Jimmy Carr is not an aim of government. However, the government should not cry about it or make tabloid gestures. If they do not believe in it, legislate. Instead, we seem to have a half-baked scheme of tabloid gestures (by all political parties) and grand statements from HMRC to scare and bully us regular folk from employing such schemes.

I still do not know if the Employment Benefit Trust tax avoidance scheme employed by Carr is illegal or not. HMRC have said they are investigating and challenging it. Can we regular members of the public have an answer so that we know whether we can employ similar tactics or not? Either we can all do it or we can't.

It is currently legal, well all individual steps of it are, but is being investigated as to whether it will remain so or whether combining them in that way would make it an illegal activity, so I wouldn't recommend doing so until they come back with the results of the investigation.

I heard on the radio he was asked if he was going to pay it back, he didn't comment...

[breadandcheese]

Whilst Carrs tax affairs are a bit more extreme than most celebs. Almost all sports people, celebs etc etc all have their money paid into companies their accountants set up. Enabling them all to have different tax breaks compared to someone on a salary. This is the norm, the press know it, the government know it. Nothing illegal, just exploiting the system

To slaughter Carr because he just happens to have a better accountant than the others seems bizarre to me. So he had a pop at tax breaks in a scripted show, why does that make him a hypocrite. It's a tv show written by a large group of people, it's not like he sat on news night slagging people off, just because the words come out of his mouth doesn't mean it's what he believes. It's TV for goodness sake.

The only people to blame are the government, if you don't want people to get away with it then don't leave any holes in the system.

Jimmy Carr is a satirist who made a sketch about tax avoidance. It is a similar situation to Ken Livingstone with his comments about tax avoidance. Neither of them have done anything illegal, however they've taken a stance on an issue and been crucified by their own words.

Expect David Cameron to get the same treatment when newspapers ask the question whether it is morally wrong for the Tory party to accept donations from people who employ similar tax avoidance schemes. Cameron really is an idiot for the sake of trying to be all things to all people.

[Babylon]

Jimmy Carr is a satirist who made a sketch about tax avoidance.

Jimmy Carr is also a presenter, and gets paid to read a script he is provided. If you can prove he wrote it, fair enough. As it stands there is a team of writers on that show, and the PRESENTERS get paid to read out what's written. You think Lauren Laverne writes all her material on there?

As for Cameron, this is the man who said it's not fair to comment on individuals tax affairs when quizzed about Phillip Green... wonder why that is.

[AdamN]

The funny thing is, he's probably still contributed more tax than most of us ever will, both directly and indirectly. If you imagine the tax paid on all the stuff he's bought (everything from a pint of beer to a flight to Antigua), plus the tax other people have paid buying his merchandise, not to mention the income tax that he does pay (even 1% of a million* is still £10,000) then I imagine the total starts to rack up pretty quickly.

*feel free to swap this figure with whatever he does earn

[breadandcheese]

Jimmy Carr is also a presenter, and gets paid to read a script he is provided. If you can prove he wrote it, fair enough. As it stands there is a team of writers on that show, and the PRESENTERS get paid to read out what's written. You think Lauren Laverne writes all her material on there?

As for Cameron, this is the man who said it's not fair to comment on individuals tax affairs when quizzed about Phillip Green... wonder why that is.

Lauren Laverne is the brains behind the show. Don't be fooled.

Regardless of whether Jimmy Carr wrote the script or not, the 10 O'Clock Show is a left-wing political comedy show, on which he presents. He was the face of the tax avoidance satirical sketch.

[General Smuts]

**** knows what everyone is bothered about, if I could be arsed or had the moolah to do it, I bloody well would.

It's perfectly legal and it's not like he's killed anyone. He's on TV every day on every channel because he's hard working. He does hundreds of live gigs every year as well. Why shouldn't he try and save himself a wedge?

[Captain...]

The funny thing is, he's probably still contributed more tax than most of us ever will, both directly and indirectly. If you imagine the tax paid on all the stuff he's bought (everything from a pint of beer to a flight to Antigua), plus the tax other people have paid buying his merchandise, not to mention the income tax that he does pay (even 1% of a million* is still £10,000) then I imagine the total starts to rack up pretty quickly.

*feel free to swap this figure with whatever he does earn

Well he is accused of not paying 3million in income tax, so imagine he is paying at the highest rate of 50% (I know it is not that anymore, and he wouldn't be paying that on all his earnings but it keeps it easier) so that means he deposited at least 6million in this k2 scheme and paid 1% of that, which is 60k, most people don't earn that amount a year let alone pay that amount in tax.

I am still not clear in how this K2 scheme works, but he still has to contribute money to it, and he will probably have had to pay further tax on the way in moving money around, normally VAT or corporation tax is involved somewhere, but I guess that is negated as it is based off shore, but then may be subjected to Import VAT, I am sure if you looked into his accounts, as it was all done legally, the money will have been subjected to tax already before being finally deposited in Jimmy's personal bank account.