Would you EVER drive over the limit

[Parafox]

I know I'm probably setting myself up to be mocked, abused and pilloried (I've got teenage kids so I'm used to that), but would there ever be any time when you would take a risk and drive having had alcohol?

The reason I ask is my conscience is stabbing me in the back.

Precis: At the weekend it was my daughter's 20th birthday. We paid for her and a friend to have 3 nights in Skeggy. All started off really well on the first night and following day. However, for reasons that aren't clear to me, an argument erupted between them which escalated to a bit of a punch-up. The police were called, they seperated the 2 girls. Daughter's friend's dad was contacted and he went to Skeg to take her home... Daughter is kept with the police.

The following day (Sunday) daughter realises her friend has taken the return coach tickets with her so she now has no way of getting home. We try to buy train ticket on-line but the person travelling has to also be the card holder when you pay by credit/debit card. We check with daughter that she has the £30 cash (price on website) to buy a ticket herself. She has exactly that amount.

She goes to the station to find the ticket price is £33 from an automated machine. The station is unmanned so she can't buy one. She phones us up hysterical, very frightened and alone. We tell her to get on the train anyway and explain the situation to the ticket guy and I will get a taxi to London Rd to meet her and pay the fare. By this time she is crying and sobbing and confused. She refuses to get on the train as she thinks she will get chucked off in the middle of nowhere. At this point her phone battery is red-line so she is very very anxious and extremely wound up.

The last message we get is "dad I've banged my head, there's blood everywhere, I've called an ambulance". Her phone then goes dead...

Now the crux... Not knowing the extent of her injuries but knowing she has no idea how to get home from the hospital and her phone has now died I decide to travel to Boston Lincs (the destination hospital) to be with her.

I have had 2 bottles of lager and a glass of wine in the last 90 mins or so, so I know I'm probably over the limit but I take the risk and go anyway.

What would you have done?

[Houdini Logic]

Would have done exactly the same.

That said, if it was any more alcohol than that I would have jumped in the first taxi, or at least I'd like to think so...

[davieG]

Very difficult but I'd like to believe that If I couldn't call on a friend or relative to help I would have got a taxi in spite of the cost, I've read so many stories where people over the limit drive in desperation only to end up being in some sort of accident some minor some serious.

Maybe a call to the local police might have provided further clarification.

I can imagine one's decision might also be affected by how you feel and how you generally cope with alcohol although that wouldn't help if you were caught.

[goose2010]

wow that's bad situation, I would of done the same, or maybe transferred money into her account?

[Fox92]

Sounds terrible. It's a very hard situation you've been caught in, but was there another option before yourself? Such as, another family member to drive, or even getting a taxi.

I do hope everything is alright now though.

[Parafox]

All the above are possibilities and I accept that I probably had other options. However, it's difficult to convey on here the emotion and stress of the messages and calls she was making to us. I took what seemed at the time to be the most direct and efficient way of resolving it. Bearing in mind she was on her way to hospital by the time I took the decision to drive.

There is one other family member who drives but they were away on holiday. My wife doesn't drive which is very limiting!

All is OK now, the wound wasn't serious but the doc's wanted to refer her to mental health and call in the crisis team because she was so hysterical and had effectively self-harmed !

[ADK]

Could you have not caught a train?

I don't think it is fair to drive while over the limit and endanger other people.

[Captain...]

All the above are possibilities and I accept that I probably had other options. However, it's difficult to convey on here the emotion and stress of the messages and calls she was making to us. I took what seemed at the time to be the most direct and efficient way of resolving it. Bearing in mind she was on her way to hospital by the time I took the decision to drive.

There is one other family member who drives but they were away on holiday. My wife doesn't drive which is very limiting!

All is OK now, the wound wasn't serious but the doc's wanted to refer her to mental health and call in the crisis team because she was so hysterical and had effectively self-harmed !

If she had been stranded in the middle of nowhere, and alone and frightened I probably would have gone, the fact she was on her way to hospital and in good care, I might have waited for an hour had a coffee or cup of tea.

I appreciate the emotion of the situation, that would also have been a good reason to relax have a hot drink and compose yourself.

As others have mentioned if you are very tolerant to alcohol and felt fine then it is different, but I know that if I had had 2 lagers and a glass of wine in 90 minutes I would be feeling the effects of it.

Obviously this is with a clear head and thinking logically.

The other question is how far was the drive, I assume you were in Leicester, so that is a good couple of hours.

On the subject of the train, she wouldn't have been thrown off, they may have fined her for fare dodging but that would be unlikely considering the situation and the fact she had £30 on her to pay it.

One thing I don't understand, does she not have a debit or credit card?

[Parafox]

Could you have not caught a train?

I don't think it is fair to drive while over the limit and endanger other people.

At the time I didn't know where she was going to be taken. I would've travelled to Skegness only to find she had been taken to Boston. Remember I had to act because at that point we didn't know what had happened or how injured she was. It felt as if time was critical.

I agree with your second comment.

[Parafox]

If she had been stranded in the middle of nowhere, and alone and frightened I probably would have gone, the fact she was on her way to hospital and in good care, I might have waited for an hour had a coffee or cup of tea.

I appreciate the emotion of the situation, that would also have been a good reason to relax have a hot drink and compose yourself.

As others have mentioned if you are very tolerant to alcohol and felt fine then it is different, but I know that if I had had 2 lagers and a glass of wine in 90 minutes I would be feeling the effects of it.

Obviously this is with a clear head and thinking logically.

The other question is how far was the drive, I assume you were in Leicester, so that is a good couple of hours.

On the subject of the train, she wouldn't have been thrown off, they may have fined her for fare dodging but that would be unlikely considering the situation and the fact she had £30 on her to pay it.

One thing I don't understand, does she not have a debit or credit card?

Yes but her account has no overdraft facility (she is on benefits) and was empty.

80 mile drive to Boston took 2 hours.

We tried to explain to her that she could still get the train but she is very fearful of the law and would not take the risk. Anyway, by this point she was so over-emotional that the instructions we were trying to give her weren't sinking in.

I didn't know which hospital she was being taken to.

[Captain...]

Yes but her account has no overdraft facility (she is on benefits) and was empty.

80 mile drive to Boston took 2 hours.

We tried to explain to her that she could still get the train but she is very fearful of the law and would not take the risk. Anyway, by this point she was so over-emotional that the instructions we were trying to give her weren't sinking in.

I didn't know which hospital she was being taken to.

Like I said thinking logically, at the time I would have waited, if she was on the way to hospital then she was being looked after, then once you knew what hospital she was in and the extent of her injuries you could have set off in a much calmer state and not have to use your phone on the way.

I don't know how I would react in that situation, and I am not judging you for what you did, I am just saying what I think would have been the best thing to have done.

If you had had an accident on been stopped by the police then you would have been no help to anyone, I guess the other question is, how did you drive? Were you panicky and in rush? Or were you calm and relaxed in the car, in some ways I would rather have someone over the legal limit, but calm and relaxed and driving safely, than someone stone cold sober but in a blind panic flying along making dangerous overtaking manoeuvres.

[Parafox]

My job means I have to be calm in a crisis and that works when it's not someone close. I'm used to driving under pressure and I was calm in the car. I was calm throughout TBH, just very worried and aware that daughter was in a highly emotional state.

I agree entirely with hindsight that I should've waited and got more information and I know you aren't judging me for what i did. In fact it's enlightening to hear people's alternatives to dealing with this situation which is why I started this topic.

I do expect to be judged by some on FT, though

[Guest Col city fan]

No.. End of

One of mi mates has just been hit with an 18 month ban, 600 notes fine and is to see the Board (of the organisation for which he works).

Believe me, it ain't worth it. I called him a daft cnvt and he nodded.

And what about the poor sod you could knock over?

[The Quick Brown Fox]

I would have done exactly the same. I know people say they wouldn't and you shouldn't, but when it comes to family we all do stuff that we shouldn't. Glad everything is ok and don't worry about it it's been and gone.

[AoWW]

Given the situation, the lack of information and the panic you and your daughter were feeling, I'd have done exactly the same.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and, yes, looking at it dispassionately you'd have been better off waiting - she was going to be picked up by an ambulance and would be safe - you could then have rung around hospitals and found out where she'd been taken before deciding the best way of getting to her. BUT, in the heat of the moment I'd still have done as you did.

I suppose my only caveat to that would be I would have considered just how capable I felt of driving safely, given the alcohol consumed. Given the amount you'd had (depending on the strength of the lager, etc, etc) yes, you'd have been over the limit, but I doubt you were staggering about with very little coordination. However, your reaction times were probably impaired but I'm sure you know that. If, for example, I was uncoordinated (more than normal!), couldn't unlock the car without several attempts, struggled to reverse it out of the drive, etc, etc, then no, I wouldn't have driven and would have been forced to think of an alternative. To be honest at that point I'd probably have rung the Lincs police myself, in a state, and begged them to help.

[Zingari]

You calculated the risks of both choices , you decided the best of both , you acted ,you got away with it . You wouid not have been able to live with yourself had you made the other choice and something went wrong .

Good luck and don't beat yourself up about it and i'd have done exactly the same.

Your girly might be in bad books for a day or two though !

[Parafox]

@ AoWW and Col, I wasn't steaming drunk. But I was breaking the law. I have a very acute conscience even after the event.

I suppose also, to understand the predicament, you need to know my daughter !

[Guest Col city fan]

@ AoWW and Col, I wasn't steaming drunk. But I was breaking the law. I have a very acute conscience even after the event.

I suppose also, to understand the predicament, you need to know my daughter !

I didn't meant to come across as flippant mate. You were obviously in a right old pickle.

However, and this is just me, knowing the ambulance was on its way, I'd have not risked it.

You get caught and frankly you're fooked.

And, as I said, you hit someone whilst driving, could you ever live with yersen?

Or, as AOWW rightly said, you could have phones the police. In my experience they are usually pretty much spot on with people in this type of dire strait.

You wouldn't have got the same understanding if you would have been pulled. That I can assure you.

[Free Fox?]

I would have done the same mate.

It completely depends on your ability to drive after a little alcohol. Some people get tipsy on a little, others don't feel any different. Only last night during a meal at a country pub, my dad and my girls dad was talking about driving to pubs during the 70s. Drink driving laws were alot more lax. 2 bottles of larger (1 pint) and a wine would have just taken you over the limit. But laws are man made remember. I always make sure I follow my conscience ahead of any laws. If you always felt in control (be honest to yourself) then so be it. I would have gone, and would have driven. A few pints later, I wouldn't have. The advise regarding losing your license is very valid though mate. It is a very high price to pay. Though the safety of your daughter vs your license......which wins?

More people die from falling down the stairs than drink driving related incidents. Do people go running around shouting lets only build bungalows?

[Captain...]

I would have done the same mate.

It completely depends on your ability to drive after a little alcohol. Some people get tipsy on a little, others don't feel any different. Only last night during a meal at a country pub, my dad and my girls dad was talking about driving to pubs during the 70s. Drink driving laws were alot more lax. 2 bottles of larger (1 pint) and a wine would have just taken you over the limit. But laws are man made remember. I always make sure I follow my conscience ahead of any laws. If you always felt in control (be honest to yourself) then so be it. I would have gone, and would have driven. A few pints later, I wouldn't have. The advise regarding losing your license is very valid though mate. It is a very high price to pay. Though the safety of your daughter vs your license......which wins?

More people die from falling down the stairs than drink driving related incidents. Do people go running around shouting lets only build bungalows?

The difference is, people are generally not pushed down the stairs by a drunk in charge of a vehicle. Don't be flippant about this, the reasons why drink related car accidents are low at the moment is because there has been a concerted effort to make people fully aware of the dangers and consequences of doing so.

[danny.]

I don't agree with driving over the limit, but if I was in your shoes, I would have done exactly the same thing. As long as I felt OK to drive though.

[Free Fox?]

The difference is, people are generally not pushed down the stairs by a drunk in charge of a vehicle. Don't be flippant about this, the reasons why drink related car accidents are low at the moment is because there has been a concerted effort to make people fully aware of the dangers and consequences of doing so.

Oh yes, quiet right. I wasn't in anyway advocating drink driving. I have never done it myself, and couldn't envisage ever doing so. It was more aimed at the situation that was stated. He was only slightly over the limit. He felt in complete control, yet he was breaking the law. The comment was meant to put into perspective his situation against other situations.

[Guest Basildon Fox]

Parafox. If I remember rightly in a thread quite a few months ago that you mentioned your daughter has had 1 or 2 issues mentally. I can imagine that this would have made the situation worse for you especially if her behavior was becoming increasingly worrying. As a parent I would have done the same as you in that situation and would have felt a certain guilt after. There is nothing wrong with having conscience.

Do not worry about what might have been, only that it was ok in the end

[Parafox]

Parafox. If I remember rightly in a thread quite a few months ago that you mentioned your daughter has had 1 or 2 issues mentally. I can imagine that this would have made the situation worse for you especially if her behavior was becoming increasingly worrying. As a parent I would have done the same as you in that situation and would have felt a certain guilt after. There is nothing wrong with having conscience.

Do not worry about what might have been, only that it was ok in the end

Correct. Due to early-life trauma, going into the care system follewed by a difficult adoption process. Subsequently, deliberate self-harm, overdose, unstable emotionally, drug and alcohol abuse and 2 small children removed for adoption. She is still only just 20.

For all that we try to get her to stand on her own two feet, we are the only rock solid constant in her life, so it's difficult to be aloof to her needs.

Thank you for the supportive comments too.

[cambridgefox]

Having had a mate get done for drink driving the next lunchtime after taking the morning off as he thought that would put him under the limit,I'm always a bit careful,I dont drink that much myself these days as I get hangovers on the night,but I used to live next door to a copper who used to say allow 2 hours a pint,now I know it depends on what you have eaten but 2 bottles is a pint,which would probably be ok anyway and a glass of wine,this over 90 mins,you were probably ok anyway.