Age of Consent

[Guest]

I've separated this discussion from the Savile one as they are two completely different discussions and the vile savile seems to be making sane posters miss subtleties being made.

Historically the age of consent for sex was decided by the family or by tribal custom and usually this coincided with signs of puberty, menstruation for a woman and pubic hair for a man.

In the 13th Century in England the age of marriage and therefore sex was 12. Those arguing about time and social circumstances having no effect on situations are clearly wrong. If each of us goes back in our own family tree we would eventually find one of our own female ancestors having sex with one of our male ancestors before they even became teenagers.

Rape is Rape whether the person is 14 or 40 and whether it is a first time meeting or a wife of 25 years who says NO. Please don't confuse age of consent with Rape.

In medieval times many children married at the age of 7 and marriages of 2 and 3 year olds were recorded.

Even in the 16th century European states were setting the age of consent at 12 years old, In France the age was 11 in 1791 and only moved to 13 in 1863. The US initially followed English laws but eventually individual states set their own ages. In 1895 the age was still 7 in Delaware ! all states now vary between 16 and 18.

In Africa there are several states with no age of consent though most vary from 12 to 18. A lot of African countries say 18. So sex with a 17 year old there would be as unacceptable in law as with a 14 year old in Britain.

Several countries, particularly in the middle east state no age but that sex can only take place within marriage. I guess that would mean many people reading this have had illegal sex (under those laws) - not me I might sadly add.

So that's the history and I think it just goes to show that an age of consent is an unrealistic measure, people mature at different rates and most certainly sexual maturity and mental maturity do NOT go hand in hand. As mentally mature adults it's easy for us to make a rational decision on age of consent but for mentally immature adults/children there is no rational or logical thought going into the process.

My question for you is: What should be the age of sexual consent?

[kyleolly]

Come on then FIF how old was she and how old did she tell you she was?

[Webbo]

Rape is Rape whether the person is 14 or 40 and whether it is a first time meeting or a wife of 25 years who says NO. Please don't confuse age of consent with Rape.

The point is is does a 14 year old have the maturity to consent? We've all done things at 14 that we wouldn't dream of doing now. The govt have decided that 16 is the correct age and I have no problem with that.

[ozleicester]

Great question.

The human brain continues to develop until approx 22 years old, does this mean we are incapable of making a responsible decision until that age?

The law has to draw a line that protects the more vulnerable...and doesnt completely remove the rights of others. So whilst the age of consent should probably remain at around the 16-18 age... the punishment for breaking that law should reflect the people involved.

A mentally retarded 25 year old... can be more abused.. than a precocious , intelligent and experienced 15 year old

[MooseBreath]

It has always seemed a bit harsh to me that an 18 year old man can be labled a predator and sometimes even a paedophile for having sex with a 15 year old girl who consented. There is clearly a massive difference between that and real predator who is targeting 10 year olds. People will do things they regret at any age. How far do you go to protect people from their own mistakes, and at what point does the damage done to 18-year-old being accused of being a predator outweigh the damage done to the 15-year-old who did something she might not even regret?

[Finnegan]

I would have a law based on the age difference of the parties involved.

Initially I'd have the law be pretty young, something like thirteen as your minimum (be as outraged as you want, if a couple of 13 / 14 year olds want to have sex they're going to have sex), but the stipulation being that a sexual partner can be no more than two years of age older than the youngest party. That up until the age of 18 when I'd just say a person was free to choose and I'd make that my blanket age of consent.

Solves two things I see as wrong with the current system: The idea that a sixteen year old can be done for statutory rape for sleeping with their partner of the same age group - but also the idea that a sixteen year old is an appropriate sexual partner for a mature adult. I find the idea that the law lets some predatory forty year old bloke sleep with an impressionable teenager to be frankly disturbing.

I'm not saying that nobody is easily swayed or overly impressionable aged eighteen but I do think you do a lot of growing and developing throughout your mid to late teens and that those two years would make a difference.

[Webbo]

It has always seemed a bit harsh to me that an 18 year old man can be labled a predator and sometimes even a paedophile for having sex with a 15 year old girl who consented. There is clearly a massive difference between that and real predator who is targeting 10 year olds. People will do things they regret at any age. How far do you go to protect people from their own mistakes, and at what point does the damage done to 18-year-old being accused of being a predator outweigh the damage done to the 15-year-old who did something she might not even regret?

In all fairness a case like that is very unlikely to be prosecuted unless the parents insist.

[Guest]

Come on then FIF how old was she and how old did she tell you she was?

I married youngish and have only ever had sex with my wife. I may preach liberal safe sex to my kids but I've only slept with one woman. Sad I know.

[Guest]

The point is is does a 14 year old have the maturity to consent? We've all done things at 14 that we wouldn't dream of doing now. The govt have decided that 16 is the correct age and I have no problem with that.

Does a 16 year old have the mental maturity to consent? Certainly not all of them. Are you inferring that people with mental problems shouldn't be allowed to have sex?

In Tunisia the official age for sex is 20.

[Webbo]

Does a 16 year old have the mental maturity to consent? Certainly not all of them. Are you inferring that people with mental problems shouldn't be allowed to have sex?

In Tunisia the official age for sex is 20.

You have to draw the line somewhere. It's not practical to have an in depth psychological profile done every time you fancy a shag.

[Guest]

You have to draw the line somewhere. It's not practical to have an in depth psychological profile done every time you fancy a shag.

And clearly WE draw the line using age but as is clear in so many cases close to the strict limit chosen by law, age is not well correlated with maturity - intellectual and moral as opposed to sexual.

I'd say that a lot of 16 year olds shouldn't be having sex and a fair few 18 year olds.

And then there's the influence of drugs and alcohol. I'm sure some on here have woken up in the morning after an alcohol/drug filled night to find out that they've slept with someone they probably wouldn't have given a clear state of mind the previous evening.

Some systems have circumvented that problem by saying that sex within marriage is the only way. I disagree with this (before anyone draws false conclusions between this statement and an earlier statement I made in the thread) but it does "tidy" things up id a different way to our system.

I do believe that England has too many unmarried teenage mums.

[leicsmac]

I would have a law based on the age difference of the parties involved.

Initially I'd have the law be pretty young, something like thirteen as your minimum (be as outraged as you want, if a couple of 13 / 14 year olds want to have sex they're going to have sex), but the stipulation being that a sexual partner can be no more than two years of age older than the youngest party. That up until the age of 18 when I'd just say a person was free to choose and I'd make that my blanket age of consent.

Solves two things I see as wrong with the current system: The idea that a sixteen year old can be done for statutory rape for sleeping with their partner of the same age group - but also the idea that a sixteen year old is an appropriate sexual partner for a mature adult. I find the idea that the law lets some predatory forty year old bloke sleep with an impressionable teenager to be frankly disturbing.

I'm not saying that nobody is easily swayed or overly impressionable aged eighteen but I do think you do a lot of growing and developing throughout your mid to late teens and that those two years would make a difference.

Think this is a very good idea. Adds flexibility and acts as something of a defence against predatory pervs going after younger teenagers.

[Guest]

Think this is a very good idea. Adds flexibility and acts as something of a defence against predatory pervs going after younger teenagers.

It's an idea but that means you are accepting the morality of two 13 year olds having sex. Surely the mental maturity of those 13 year olds has to be an important factor. And since Parents are responsible for the actions of minors in the UK would that mean a change in laws there or should the parents be forcibly part of any decision?

[leicsmac]

It's an idea but that means you are accepting the morality of two 13 year olds having sex. Surely the mental maturity of those 13 year olds has to be an important factor. And since Parents are responsible for the actions of minors in the UK would that mean a change in laws there or should the parents be forcibly part of any decision?

I don't really think it's moral...but then I don't think two consenting 13-year olds having sex is grounds for potential jail time and a place on the SOR either.

I think something like that should be a matter purely for the parents - the authorities would not get involved.

Edit: Also, like most other issues like this, things like these need to be evaluated case-by-case if they aren't already.

[Finnegan]

It's an idea but that means you are accepting the morality of two 13 year olds having sex. Surely the mental maturity of those 13 year olds has to be an important factor. And since Parents are responsible for the actions of minors in the UK would that mean a change in laws there or should the parents be forcibly part of any decision?

If two thirteen year olds are sexually curious enough to want to explore themselves together then I don't really have a major issue with it, if they want enough to do it they're going to find the means anyway.

For me the bigger concern would be two thirteen year olds (or young persons of any age) who felt fundamentally pressured to rush in to sexual relations without really feeling ready purely because there was a pressure on them to do so. That's not about the age of consent, in my opinion, that's about the way we brand and market sex in our society and the way we teach sexual education.

[Saxondale]

I would have a law based on the age difference of the parties involved.

Initially I'd have the law be pretty young, something like thirteen as your minimum (be as outraged as you want, if a couple of 13 / 14 year olds want to have sex they're going to have sex), but the stipulation being that a sexual partner can be no more than two years of age older than the youngest party. That up until the age of 18 when I'd just say a person was free to choose and I'd make that my blanket age of consent.

Solves two things I see as wrong with the current system: The idea that a sixteen year old can be done for statutory rape for sleeping with their partner of the same age group - but also the idea that a sixteen year old is an appropriate sexual partner for a mature adult. I find the idea that the law lets some predatory forty year old bloke sleep with an impressionable teenager to be frankly disturbing.

I'm not saying that nobody is easily swayed or overly impressionable aged eighteen but I do think you do a lot of growing and developing throughout your mid to late teens and that those two years would make a difference.

Basically this.

[acooling08]

Great question.

The human brain continues to develop until approx 22 years old, does this mean we are incapable of making a responsible decision until that age?

The law has to draw a line that protects the more vulnerable...and doesnt completely remove the rights of others. So whilst the age of consent should probably remain at around the 16-18 age... the punishment for breaking that law should reflect the people involved.

A mentally retarded 25 year old... can be more abused.. than a precocious , intelligent and experienced 15 year old

Maybe that's why I'm such a cvnt. 3 years till sanity.

And my input: the law doesn't really matter, teens are going to have sex if it's legal or not.

[z-layrex]

I would say 15. Although what Finnegan posted is a great idea.

I had a 15 year old gf when I was 17 and it was fine, but a 25 year old sleeping with a 15 year old is ****ing creepy.

[Guest]

I would say 15. Although what Finnegan posted is a great idea.

I had a 15 year old gf when I was 17 and it was fine, but a 25 year old sleeping with a 15 year old is ****ing creepy.

But I guess a 26 year old sleeping with a 16 year old is less creepy? and a 30 year old with a 20 year old completely acceptable?

[Haydos]

But I guess a 26 year old sleeping with a 16 year old is less creepy? and a 30 year old with a 20 year old completely acceptable?

26 year old with a 16 year old is just as weird as 25 and 15. A 20 year old tends to be a lot more mature than a 16 year old so yeah, i'd say that that was basically fine.

[Phube]

I put forth the "Half your age plus seven" rule! It actually works quite well for seeing how young becomes indecent!

P.s. Damn it can't paste a quick look up table??!?!?

14 14 15 14 1/2 16 15 17 15 1/2 18 16 19 16 1/2 20 17 21 17 1/2 22 18 23 18 1/2 24 19 25 19 1/2 26 20 27 20 1/2 28 21 29 21 1/2 30 22 31 22 1/2 32 23 33 23 1/2 34 24 35 24 1/2 36 25 37 25 1/2 38 26 39 26 1/2 40 27 41 27 1/2 42 28 43 28 1/2 44 29 45 29 1/2 46 30 47 30 1/2 48 31 49 31 1/2 50 32 51 32 1/2 52 33 53 33 1/2 54 34 55 34 1/2 56 35 57 35 1/2 58 36 59 36 1/2 60 37 61 37 1/2 62 38 63 38 1/2 64 39 65 39 1/2 66 40 67 40 1/2 68 41 69 41 1/2 70 42

[Guest]

26 year old with a 16 year old is just as weird as 25 and 15. A 20 year old tends to be a lot more mature than a 16 year old so yeah, i'd say that that was basically fine.

But a 26yo sleeping with a 16 yo is legal whereas a 25yo with a 15yo isn't. Do you get my point?

[Guest]

I put forth the "Half your age plus seven" rule! It actually works quite well for seeing how young becomes indecent!

Damn it can't paste a quick look up table??!?!?

14 14 15 14 1/2 16 15 17 15 1/2 18 16 19 16 1/2 20 17 21 17 1/2 22 18 23 18 1/2 24 19 25 19 1/2 26 20 27 20 1/2 28 21 29 21 1/2 30 22 31 22 1/2 32 23 33 23 1/2 34 24 35 24 1/2 36 25 37 25 1/2 38 26 39 26 1/2 40 27 41 27 1/2 42 28 43 28 1/2 44 29 45 29 1/2 46 30 47 30 1/2 48 31 49 31 1/2 50 32 51 32 1/2 52 33 53 33 1/2 54 34 55 34 1/2 56 35 57 35 1/2 58 36 59 36 1/2 60 37 61 37 1/2 62 38 63 38 1/2 64 39 65 39 1/2 66 40 67 40 1/2 68 41 69 41 1/2 70 42

That's pretty interesting. It brings up another question as you seem to be saying that 2 people of a mature age could be seen to be acting indecently.

for example a 39YO with a 23YO but 7 years later it'd be alright.

Do you think that it's creepy/weird for mature adults of whatever age to be sleeping together?

This also assumes that 14 is a mature enough age to be having sex.

[Zingari]

"have you got everything son for a safe night out ?"

" yes mum , phone , condoms , wallet ,watch , pocket calculator"

[Haydos]

But a 26yo sleeping with a 16 yo is legal whereas a 25yo with a 15yo isn't. Do you get my point?

Oh yeah, that's why I agree with Finnegan's point about the age difference up until the age of 18, it makes sense. But it's the same with everything, there's always going to have to be a cut off point.