Here To Be Shot Down Again

[Dan LCFC]

Just for a bit of perspective .....in that season, we were the third biggest spenders on wages - West ham spent most with £40+ million, followed by Southampton with £29m. Then came us followed closely by Reading £27m, Birmingham £25m, Middlesborough £22m, Cardiff £21m and Hull £20m

 

The wages seem fairly even to me with the exception of West ham - the real failure that season was not getting promoted - the gamble to sack the manager who had put the team together (broadly in line with the kind of wages needed to get promotion from the division) being removed way too early and to what is now damaging effect. 

 

You will see that all the teams except Palace that have gone up recently are in this ballpark. Yes our wages are high but not as unrealistic as some of you have allowed yourselves to believe and certainly nothing in the league table of wages suggests that anything much under £20m+ is going to get you anywhere near the Premier League.

 

Also, by going up with a relatively highly paid squad, you seem to have a better chance of survival (WH, Southampton) than a cheaper one - which was perhaps the thinking behind bringing in players like Nuge, Konch,Kasper, Beckford, Fernandes, all of whom you could have seen (at the time) playing for a bottom half Prem side. Bringing in lots of Championship level players on 3 year contracts would have meant even if you arrived in the Prem you would have too many inexperienced players and not enough funds to buy Prem players.

 

The gamble was invest, get promotion and we'll be OK - the mistake was pulling the plug early - since then we have been in reverse but there is very little in the wages table to suggest our policy will work - indeed the only two alternatives are bringing through fantastic youth players (Palace) and managing them well which we don't have/seem scared to do or borrowing someone else's team (Watford)

 

So in other words, you're pretty much basing our squad on how much it costs rather than how good they were?

 

There were only two occasions all season when I left a game in the 2011/12 season and thought we had a chance of promotion - Coventry where we won 0-1 and whilst we played poorly, I looked on the bright side and thought we'd picked up a knack of winning when not playing well - a trait that pretty much every side who goes up from this league seems to have, that was undone in the next two games when we lost twice at home, one of them to an awful Bristol City side. The other game was the 4-0 against Derby, where things really did come together, one of our best displays under Sven.

 

Palace didn't pull the plug on anything, they had a very good manager taken from them by Bolton and replaced him with a man who's record this year points wise doesn't come close to Pearson's - he just seemed to turn up when it mattered in the play-offs, the same manager who couldn't turn up when it mattered for Leicester.

 

Sorry but there's so much wrong with that - "going up with a relatively high paid squad, you'll have a better chance of survival".

[5waller5]

Leicester's wage bill could be £20m ......

 

One season in premiership = £120m ......

 

Why the shock that we'd be paying that kind of money to try to be promoted???

 

I don't understand the shock .... if you want to compete you pay the money. It's a business risk as is everyday that you run a business.

[HitchinFox]

Just talking to my college mate whos mate was apparentley at a dinner with a none executive from our board.

Apparentley we need to offload Beckford Danns Nugent and Wes as theyre all on over 25k a week. We were paying 85% of the first two's wages at huddersfield. Apparently Danns has a clause in his contract where if he goes over a certain amount of games he gets a one year extension.

Really hope we keep Wes and Nugent if all this is true

 

I can easily believe that around half of that is true.

 

a) The dinner happened

b) Your mate's mate did sit down at the table with a LCFC non-exec.

But if something was said about who needs to be offloaded then some of it sounds a bit odd. There is no way Nige would get rid off Wes. And even if he would leave, it wouldn't be a wage issue - he's nowhere near £25,000pw. 

Beckford and Danns I believe, but then we already knew those names were on that list of six.

 

Nugent I COULD believe, as Nige might think that he's got enough up front with Wood, Vardy, Schlupp, Waghorn and Futacs. Three and a half of those he has brought in himself (I think Sousa was manager when Waghorn signed but I believe it was down to Nige to bring him in following his loan - could be wrong), so he must've seen something in them. Having said that, Nuge has been our best striker since Nige came back so I do find it hard to believe that he would allow him to go.

Also, I would argue that those five would not be good enough to get the goals we need for promotion - but then..."In Nigel we trust".

* NOTE - has anybody noticed that Futacs has disappeared from the squad list on the OS? Have I missed something?

[Kitchandro]

Just for a bit of perspective .....in that season, we were the third biggest spenders on wages - West ham spent most with £40+ million, followed by Southampton with £29m. Then came us followed closely by Reading £27m, Birmingham £25m, Middlesborough £22m, Cardiff £21m and Hull £20m

 

The wages seem fairly even to me with the exception of West ham - the real failure that season was not getting promoted - the gamble to sack the manager who had put the team together (broadly in line with the kind of wages needed to get promotion from the division) being removed way too early and to what is now damaging effect. 

 

You will see that all the teams except Palace that have gone up recently are in this ballpark. Yes our wages are high but not as unrealistic as some of you have allowed yourselves to believe and certainly nothing in the league table of wages suggests that anything much under £20m+ is going to get you anywhere near the Premier League.

 

Also, by going up with a relatively highly paid squad, you seem to have a better chance of survival (WH, Southampton) than a cheaper one - which was perhaps the thinking behind bringing in players like Nuge, Konch,Kasper, Beckford, Fernandes, all of whom you could have seen (at the time) playing for a bottom half Prem side. Bringing in lots of Championship level players on 3 year contracts would have meant even if you arrived in the Prem you would have too many inexperienced players and not enough funds to buy Prem players.

 

The gamble was invest, get promotion and we'll be OK - the mistake was pulling the plug early - since then we have been in reverse but there is very little in the wages table to suggest our policy will work - indeed the only two alternatives are bringing through fantastic youth players (Palace) and managing them well which we don't have/seem scared to do or borrowing someone else's team (Watford)

 

...QPR?

 

You're forgetting that we spent twice as much as anyone else in transfer fees.

 

I don't see how sacking Sven could possibly be considered a gamble when we had a side no where near good enough for promotion. It may have been a gamble if we'd ended up getting relegated.

 

By the way, where are you getting these numbers from?

[seenitall]

So in other words, you're pretty much basing our squad on how much it costs rather than how good they were?

 

There were only two occasions all season when I left a game in the 2011/12 season and thought we had a chance of promotion - Coventry where we won 0-1 and whilst we played poorly, I looked on the bright side and thought we'd picked up a knack of winning when not playing well - a trait that pretty much every side who goes up from this league seems to have, that was undone in the next two games when we lost twice at home, one of them to an awful Bristol City side. The other game was the 4-0 against Derby, where things really did come together, one of our best displays under Sven.

 

Palace didn't pull the plug on anything, they had a very good manager taken from them by Bolton and replaced him with a man who's record this year points wise doesn't come close to Pearson's - he just seemed to turn up when it mattered in the play-offs, the same manager who couldn't turn up when it mattered for Leicester.

 

Sorry but there's so much wrong with that - "going up with a relatively high paid squad, you'll have a better chance of survival".

Do I assume you mean from the 13 games while Sven was in charge? We have all just been forced to accept that a 13 game run with 6 points is not enough to suggest you have lost your management mojo so 2 games in 13 where you were thinking promotion is arguably way better.

 

Palace gained 28 points in 2013 compared to our 26....pity golden trainers didn't turn up when it counted.....

 

What is wrong with it?

[seenitall]

...QPR?

 

You're forgetting that we spent twice as much as anyone else in transfer fees.

 

I don't see how sacking Sven could possibly be considered a gamble when we had a side no where near good enough for promotion. It may have been a gamble if we'd ended up getting relegated.

 

By the way, where are you getting these numbers from?

 

But QPR did survive year one or did I miss that?

 

nowhere near good enough for promotion is a farce though - you probably believe that the side that played relegation level football post january this season was good enough so where do you draw the line -the point anyway is that the wages bill was not a million miles away from the majority of teams that have gone up recently and around half of any team in the Premier League....we were thinking big, we panicked, now we are thinking small.

[Kitchandro]

Do I assume you mean from the 13 games while Sven was in charge? We have all just been forced to accept that a 13 game run with 6 points is not enough to suggest you have lost your management mojo so 2 games in 13 where you were thinking promotion is arguably way better.

 

Palace gained 28 points in 2013 compared to our 26....pity golden trainers didn't turn up when it counted.....

 

What is wrong with it?

 

So you still believe in Pearson then?

[seenitall]

So you still believe in Pearson then?

 Sorry, I have not believed in him since his upward trajectory popped in the Cardiff shoot out - up to then he was punching well above his weight but since then he has done nothing (blah blah blah scraping into the play offs blah blah blah) - at least we gave Cardiff a game.

[Corky]

So you still believe in Pearson then?

 

Was that a serious question?

[Kitchandro]

But QPR did survive year one or did I miss that?

 

nowhere near good enough for promotion is a farce though - you probably believe that the side that played relegation level football post january this season was good enough so where do you draw the line -the point anyway is that the wages bill was not a million miles away from the majority of teams that have gone up recently and around half of any team in the Premier League....we were thinking big, we panicked, now we are thinking small.

 

But they had big wages this year (even bigger I should think) and went down. Maybe it's time to accept that quality of players is the most important thing, and not how much they cost?

 

No I didn't believe we were good enough after our terrible run this season, I was shocked when we managed to sneak into the play-offs. The fact is though, we did sneak in, with a bit of luck but mainly because of our very good form up until February. This is what you dont seem to grasp, Nigel takes responsibility for our collapse but he was in charge for 18 months or so which means he takes responsibility for getting in the play-offs, a position Sven never got us into once. NOT ONCE!

 

No, really, it's worth repeating, NOT ONCE did Sven have us in a play-off place. Pearson showed evidence of a mojo because he had us finish in the play-offs, and in fact had us in there and challenging for the top 2 for most of the season. That is why people are willing to give Pearson more of a chance, because he's shown evidence that we can achieve something with this side.

 

Why are you talking about panicking? Do you understand the situation we are in? This is not make believe, it's real. We do need to spend less. We do need to get players off the wage bill. That is a fact, it isn't panicking. And sacking Sven wasn't panicking either; since you love bringing up runs, what about Sven's from March to the point he was sacked? That's what his sacking was based upon, as well as the decreasing quality in our performances. That has nothing to do with panicking.

Was that a serious question?

 

of course not, I'm trying to tie him up in knots using his own arguements. It's fun

[Kitchandro]

 Sorry, I have not believed in him since his upward trajectory popped in the Cardiff shoot out - up to then he was punching well above his weight but since then he has done nothing (blah blah blah scraping into the play offs blah blah blah) - at least we gave Cardiff a game.

 

So you stopped believing in Pearson when he lost a play-off semi-final on penalties, yet still believed in Sven when we were 13th having not once touched the play-off places in a whole year.

 

Explain that or shut it.

[Guest MattP]

 Sorry, I have not believed in him since his upward trajectory popped in the Cardiff shoot out - up to then he was punching well above his weight but since then he has done nothing (blah blah blah scraping into the play offs blah blah blah) - at least we gave Cardiff a game.

 

Awful, as opposed to every other season in the last ten years without Pearson when it's either been,

 

blah blah blah mid table or

blah blah blah relegation.

 

I absolutely LOVE the fact you changed your opinion on a manager based on a a penalty shoot out after we had just beaten a top side away 3-2 That might actually be the funniest thing I've read on here.

[seenitall]

Awful, as opposed to every other season in the last ten years without Pearson when it's either been,

 

blah blah blah mid table or

blah blah blah relegation.

 

I absolutely LOVE the fact you changed your opinion on a manager based on a a penalty shoot out That might actually be the funniest thing I've read on here.

Please....did I say that? I said since he lost that game he has lost whatever he had up to then - he did nothing at Hull in his first year there (finished below us) and seemed completely lost most of his return season with us. There were a few signs of a return in the first half of the season but his woeful run after Xmas suggested that for most of the past 3 seasons he has been floundering...maybe it is all down to external factors but, as with Sven, the table doesn't lie and he has to pay the price - except for some strange reason he doesn't.

[Fox92]

If you all hate Sven clap your hands

 

*claps*

[seenitall]

So you stopped believing in Pearson when he lost a play-off semi-final on penalties, yet still believed in Sven when we were 13th having not once touched the play-off places in a whole year.

 

Explain that or shut it.

 

OK boss - see the response to the equally obtuse MattP but think about what I said. Up to the point of the Cardiff play off defeat Nige was on a roll and I enjoyed what he was doing for us. Then he left us, struggled with Hull, struggled with us and then struggled with us again, that is three seasons of mediocrity with the worse run of the lot coming towards the end of that three years - excuse me for not being a big fan

 

Argue with that or shut it

[Kitchandro]

Please....did I say that? I said since he lost that game he has lost whatever he had up to then - he did nothing at Hull in his first year there (finished below us) and seemed completely lost most of his return season with us. There were a few signs of a return in the first half of the season but his woeful run after Xmas suggested that for most of the past 3 seasons he has been floundering...maybe it is all down to external factors but, as with Sven, the table doesn't lie and he has to pay the price - except for some strange reason he doesn't.

 

No you didn't:

 

 

 Sorry, I have not believed in him since his upward trajectory popped in the Cardiff shoot out - up to then he was punching well above his weight but since then he has done nothing (blah blah blah scraping into the play offs blah blah blah) - at least we gave Cardiff a game.

 

So there, YOU said you haven't believed in him since we lost the shoot-out.

 

 

It's funny you should say the table doesn't lie because most people are always trying to tell you that Pearson has finished in the play-offs twice and Sven never once entered the play-off places, but you won't have any of it.

[Fox92]

Please....did I say that? I said since he lost that game he has lost whatever he had up to then - he did nothing at Hull in his first year there (finished below us) and seemed completely lost most of his return season with us. There were a few signs of a return in the first half of the season but his woeful run after Xmas suggested that for most of the past 3 seasons he has been floundering...maybe it is all down to external factors but, as with Sven, the table doesn't lie and he has to pay the price - except for some strange reason he doesn't.

 

He did everything in the background. He got rid of the big earners and totally turned Hull around - signing the likes of Chester (best defender in the division last season) and Koren. The Hull team that got promoted this season was that of Pearson's, Bruce just finished the job in a way and brought a few more players in. My mates a Hull fan and even said they were in a mess before Pearson came in, in terms of wages, and also said that he didn't expect Hull to finish as high as they did.

[seenitall]

But they had big wages this year (even bigger I should think) and went down. Maybe it's time to accept that quality of players is the most important thing, and not how much they cost?

 

No I didn't believe we were good enough after our terrible run this season, I was shocked when we managed to sneak into the play-offs. The fact is though, we did sneak in, with a bit of luck but mainly because of our very good form up until February. This is what you dont seem to grasp, Nigel takes responsibility for our collapse but he was in charge for 18 months or so which means he takes responsibility for getting in the play-offs, a position Sven never got us into once. NOT ONCE!

 

No, really, it's worth repeating, NOT ONCE did Sven have us in a play-off place. Pearson showed evidence of a mojo because he had us finish in the play-offs, and in fact had us in there and challenging for the top 2 for most of the season. That is why people are willing to give Pearson more of a chance, because he's shown evidence that we can achieve something with this side.

 

Why are you talking about panicking? Do you understand the situation we are in? This is not make believe, it's real. We do need to spend less. We do need to get players off the wage bill. That is a fact, it isn't panicking. And sacking Sven wasn't panicking either; since you love bringing up runs, what about Sven's from March to the point he was sacked? That's what his sacking was based upon, as well as the decreasing quality in our performances. That has nothing to do with panicking.

 

of course not, I'm trying to tie him up in knots using his own arguements. It's fun

You are so intelligent it is a struggle to keep up with you. Not once did Sven get a full season you silly billy NOT ONCE - its worth repeating because you don't understand NOT ONCE did Sven get a full season here NOT ONCE

[Kitchandro]

OK boss - see the response to the equally obtuse MattP but think about what I said. Up to the point of the Cardiff play off defeat Nige was on a roll and I enjoyed what he was doing for us. Then he left us, struggled with Hull, struggled with us and then struggled with us again, that is three seasons of mediocrity with the worse run of the lot coming towards the end of that three years - excuse me for not being a big fan

 

Argue with that or shut it

 

See my post above - that's not what you said, you said you stopped believing in him as soon as we lost the play-off semi against Cardiff.

 

Don't backtrack for once.

 

If Pearson has struggled with us how do you describe Sven's tenure here when he never once had us in a play-off place?

[seenitall]

He did everything in the background. He got rid of the big earners and totally turned Hull around - signing the likes of Chester (best defender in the division last season) and Koren. The Hull team that got promoted this season was that of Pearson's, Bruce just finished the job in a way and brought a few more players in. My mates a Hull fan and even said they were in a mess before Pearson came in, in terms of wages, and also said that he didn't expect Hull to finish as high as they did.

Brilliant, well as long as your mate was happy then......

See my post above - that's not what you said, you said you stopped believing in him as soon as we lost the play-off semi against Cardiff.

 

Don't backtrack for once.

 

If Pearson has struggled with us how do you describe Sven's tenure here when he never once had us in a play-off place?

Since - he stopped being our manager after that game - or did you still love him while he was at Hull, this is more serious than I thought

[MC Prussian]

OK boss - see the response to the equally obtuse MattP but think about what I said. Up to the point of the Cardiff play off defeat Nige was on a roll and I enjoyed what he was doing for us. Then he left us, struggled with Hull, struggled with us and then struggled with us again, that is three seasons of mediocrity with the worse run of the lot coming towards the end of that three years - excuse me for not being a big fan

 

Argue with that or shut it

Ah, seenitall expecting miracles from our manager. Good to see you set your expectations high early enough.

 

That a manager can fail and that you can't get instant success (in the space of one season only) is beyond your comprehension.

 

You're one entertaining piece.

Essentially, there's no way pleasing you. Congratulations.

[Kitchandro]

You are so intelligent it is a struggle to keep up with you. Not once did Sven get a full season you silly billy NOT ONCE - its worth repeating because you don't understand NOT ONCE did Sven get a full season here NOT ONCE

 

So you understand then?

 

So argue with it. Come up with an intelligent point to argue with the point I'm making. That's what adults do.

[Kitchandro]

Since - he stopped being our manager after that game - or did you still love him while he was at Hull, this is more serious than I thought

 

It was your quote, I know he went to Hull after that, why are you telling me?

[Guest MattP]

Please....did I say that? I said since he lost that game he has lost whatever he had up to then - he did nothing at Hull in his first year there (finished below us) and seemed completely lost most of his return season with us. There were a few signs of a return in the first half of the season but his woeful run after Xmas suggested that for most of the past 3 seasons he has been floundering...maybe it is all down to external factors but, as with Sven, the table doesn't lie and he has to pay the price - except for some strange reason he doesn't.

 

Finishing sixth is not the equivalent tenth is it?

 

Most clubs don't sack manager who finish in the top six.

 

If we have been floudering for the last 3 years under Pearson i dread to think what your description of us would have been under Levein, Hollowway, Sousa or Sven.

[seenitall]

So you understand then?

 

So argue with it. Come up with an intelligent point to argue with the point I'm making. That's what adults do.

How on earth would you know that?

Finishing sixth is not the equivalent tenth is it?

 

Most clubs don't sack manager who finish in the top six.

 

If we have been floudering for the last 3 years under Pearson i dread to think what your description of us would have been under Levein, Hollowway, Sousa or Sven.

WE haven't been under Pearson for the last 3 years!!!! Keep up