People earning £60k are not rich?

[Guest MattP]

Most people on benefits are low paid workers

[Legend_in_blue]

It's all about disposable income at the end of the day. 60k a year isn't necessarily a lot if you've a big mortgage to pay.

It doesn't really matter what you earn, you always end up spending or saving the maximum you can.

Earn more, you'll want a bigger house, a flasher car, all costs more, but is your disposable income any better? Probably not.

[MooseBreath]

I've said my bit. Just trying to say how I don't like to see things in black and white. It can happen to anyone. I'll stop posting now. Think its for the best.

[MooseBreath]

A bloke who I'm involved with grew up in an broken home. His mum his dad not to be seen. After being abused from age nine he got into drink and drugs. He narrowly avoided death, but got his life together after someone gave him a chance. Now he's senior editor at down and out and doing well. I look up to him. Just trying to show how things aren't always black and whie.

[Guest MattP]

It's because people make generalisations that people on 60k could be considered rich.

I'm off to the Colonel Gaddafi community hall tomorrow for a talk on how to make use of your money, apparently the guest speaker is an ex homeless soldier who developed lung and liver cancer while his husband died in a car crash. Mail readers will say that no doubt he drank and smoked but I don't like to judge until I know the full facts.

I'll tell you who couldn't live on 60k a year. Bankers. That wage wouldn't pay for all their champagne showers and docking spaces in St Tropez.

[Jon the Hat]

Most people on benefits are low paid workers

I never knew that.

[Les-TA-Jon]

Here's what I said:

 

I'm confused by some people on this thread. Earning 60-100k plus and still not rich/comfortable? 

 

What? 

 

As I've said already - I think a lot of the disagreements in this thread, and generally in public discourses that surround wealth, rich(ness), income, poverty etc, comes down to language and it's connotations. 

 

"Rich" and "Wealthy" are very strong words. I wouldn't say that someone earning 60K is rich, but I'd say they're pretty lucky, most definitely comfortable and can't really justify having any complaints. 

 

The thing is people are like goldfishes - they grow to the size of their bowl (income). If I was given an immediate pay rise of 20K, I wouldn't be saving 20K more per year would I? I'd just spend more. 

 

But the point there is that, that extra spending is still a choice. Merely having the choice is what makes me comfortable (or even potentially rich). Actually acting on the choice and then spending more on various unnecessary things makes you rich/comfortable. 

 

My previous example was a family that earn 60-80K, have a big house, 2 cars, several breaks/holidays, expensive food/entertainment etc, but sometimes complain about having no money, or the cost of stuff! That's because you're spending it!!!

 

The mere fact that you can is what makes you rich.  

 

 

big house, 2 cars, several holidays on 60K?  no chance.  especially if you have a wife and kids to support.

 

 

Many people on 60k wouldn't be able to afford all that though, especially if it was 1 earner as they would then be subject to higher rate tax wouldn't receive tax credits, child benefit, housing benefit, healthcare exemptions, free school dinners, help with transport, kids uniforms etc it would be far from the life of luxury

 

Again - the example I'm using is a real one, that I know from very close personal experience (they're my in-laws!) and so it's validity isn't really in question. Regardless of that, my points still stand, that being rich/very comfortable isn't just about income, it's about the lifestyle, choices and opportunities that people are able to take. 

 

They're not rich mate, they're just better off than you. I don't say that to be harsh, it's just true, £60k a year isn't rich just because some people earn less.

 

Read my post, quoted above, I explicitly said they weren't rich. 

 

All depends on your lifestyle.

I know people on 50k who do nothing and spend nothing, they could be classed as rich.

I know a guy on 200k a year, rents a flat, no dependants and he's absolutely skint due to the lifestyle he lives.

If I was on a salary of six figures I wouldn't be rich, I'd live a decent lifestyle no doubt, but I very much doubt I'd have savings.

 

A lot of posts in this thread keeping coming back to this sort of point. It seems to me to be reducing whether someone's rich or not, merely down to the amount of disposable income available. 

 

It's about how much you are able to spend surely? 

 

You're all telling me that if I was on 100K a year and spent £99,000, thus leaving me with only £1,000, that I'm not rich?!?

 

The emboldened bit sums it up really - yes! he choses that lifestyle! So he's rich, it's a choice to do that and more importantly he's empowered by his 200k income to chose that lifestyle, it's not a choice we all have is it? 

[Guest MattP]

I never knew that.

Daily Mail will say it's because they live in big houses and spend it on television and cigarettes.

I don't like to judge but ill tell you who won't be effected by the bedroom tax. Bankers.

Instead they will be robbing the poor whilst sipping Dom 94 on the stock exchange floor, they probably fill their spare room with 500k paintings and then their mates in the Tory party can write it off as expenses before they all go off to the Cayman Islands.

As I say I don't like to make assumptions without the full facts but this will hit the disabled hardest. I know a guy who works at Shelter whose daughters cousin suffers from a rare toe condition that came about due to being bullied at pre-school. That spare bedroom is vital for her carer but as they don't read the Telegraph you can be sure Cameron isn't interested.

I don't know the full facts but you can be sure the Bullingdon club dinner will be on again this year.

[Rincewind]

1 Those on/above £100k travel Executive

2 Those on £60-£99 travel First Class

3 Those on £25k-£59 travel Ecomony

4 Everyone else walks.

 

I agree with this you may be surprised to know.

Mattp

All depends on your lifestyle.

[Monk]

Daily Mail will say it's because they live in big houses and spend it on television and cigarettes.

I don't like to judge but ill tell you who won't be effected by the bedroom tax. Bankers.

Instead they will be robbing the poor whilst sipping Dom 94 on the stock exchange floor, they probably fill their spare room with 500k paintings and then their mates in the Tory party can write it off as expenses before they all go off to the Cayman Islands.

As I say I don't like to make assumptions without the full facts but this will hit the disabled hardest. I know a guy who works at Shelter whose daughters cousin suffers from a rare toe condition that came about due to being bullied at pre-school. That spare bedroom is vital for her carer but as they don't read the Telegraph you can be sure Cameron isn't interested.

I don't know the full facts but you can be sure the Bullingdon club dinner will be on again this year.

You don't like to make assumptions without the full facts... But you just went ahead and did anyway.

What's your point? Anyone who isn't affected by the bedroom tax shouldn't be allowed to spend their money and have a bit of fun? Or that politicians should really stick to tap water?

Your mates daughters cousin is hardly first hand information on the topic is it?

[Guest MattP]

You don't like to make assumptions without the full facts... But you just went ahead and did anyway.

What's your point? Anyone who isn't affected by the bedroom tax shouldn't be allowed to spend their money and have a bit of fun? Or that politicians should really stick to tap water?

Your mates daughters cousin is hardly first hand information on the topic is it?

I was just trying to stick up for the little guy.

The bankers are too busy eating their caviar and going on all expenses paid trips to the Ashes for 3 months.

But I suppose if you are on benefits you can't do that.

Just trying to say that everything isn't black and white and we should look at the facts. Not just read the Daily Mail which says all homeless people earn 40k in benefits.

[Guest MattP]

1 Those on/above £100k travel Executive

2 Those on £60-£99 travel First Class

3 Those on £25k-£59 travel Ecomony

4 Everyone else walks.

 

I agree with this you may be surprised to know.

Mattp

All depends on your lifestyle.

 

First is above Executive (or Business as it's now known) I probably travel First around 50% of the time and I earn nowhere near the figures you quote, if you ask, smile, chat and laugh you'll get upgraded on things you wouldn't think believable for a fraction of the cost.

 

I came back from Dubai to London in Business for £300 extra in March by having a big smile and ligtening up the day or a check in desk worker, had I booked it from a laptop ten yards away it would have been 2-3k.

 

Try to forget what you earn, instead spend what you have, stop complianing, enjoy it and smile. It seems to work for a lot of people.

[Rincewind]

I think Matt was exaggerating to  try and discredit the viewpoint that he supposedly put across. With minor alterations he is not far off.

 

Parents of a university student on a low income will have to pay for the room when not used or move into a smaller property of which there is a huge waiting list (ask any council for figures under the freedom of information act) because they are unable to move they will have their income reduced per week by up to £20 per week.

With the disable a room used to store a wheelchair will be classed as a bedroom by some councils and therefore nenefits reduced as in when they have to have a carer stay overnight. A couple who are unable to stay in the same room for medical reasons will have to pay the extra.

Obviously bankers won't be affected because it only applies to those on benefits.They wom't be robbing the poor either. They will read that there are none.Do they allow alcohol to be brought into the stock exchange?

I agree with the the first part of the last line of Matts post though.

 

Now that's cleared up, I think it's been said being rich depends on your lifestyle. You can mix with the Jones but if you cannot afford to keep up with them then don't. The riff raff have some decent people amongst them.

[jonthefox]

Most people on benefits are low paid workers.

 

 

 

Actually the biggest group on benefits are pensioners. The state pension is classed as a benefit.

[Dr The Singh]

1 Those on/above £100k travel Executive

2 Those on £60-£99 travel First Class

3 Those on £25k-£59 travel Ecomony

4 Everyone else walks.

 

I agree with this you may be surprised to know.

Mattp

All depends on your lifestyle.

WHere did you get those values, I earn over 60k, and cannot afford to fly first class on a plane

[Rincewind]

Anyone watching Newsnight?

[Jon the Hat]

WHere did you get those values, I earn over 60k, and cannot afford to fly first class on a plane

I think you can safely ignore financial comment from Rincewind.

[Rincewind]

WHere did you get those values, I earn over 60k, and cannot afford to fly first class on a plane

Guesswork mainly. I was just trying to show as you go up the pay scale you can afford to improve your lifestyle unless you waste your money.

[Guest MattP]

Anyone watching Newsnight?

 

Yes, watching Ed Balls now, very entertaining, saying he won't be signing blank cheques.

 

Even Labour know the game is up when it comes to vastly spending money on public services, if the Labour voters going out expect a Gordon Brown style welfare state again they are going to be sadly disappointed.

[Rincewind]

Sorry Doc

[Jace]

I think Matt was exaggerating to  try and discredit the viewpoint that he supposedly put across. With minor alterations he is not far off.

 

Parents of a university student on a low income will have to pay for the room when not used or move into a smaller property of which there is a huge waiting list (ask any council for figures under the freedom of information act) because they are unable to move they will have their income reduced per week by up to £20 per week.

With the disable a room used to store a wheelchair will be classed as a bedroom by some councils and therefore nenefits reduced as in when they have to have a carer stay overnight. A couple who are unable to stay in the same room for medical reasons will have to pay the extra.

Obviously bankers won't be affected because it only applies to those on benefits.They wom't be robbing the poor either. They will read that there are none.Do they allow alcohol to be brought into the stock exchange?

I agree with the the first part of the last line of Matts post though.

 

Now that's cleared up, I think it's been said being rich depends on your lifestyle. You can mix with the Jones but if you cannot afford to keep up with them then don't. The riff raff have some decent people amongst them.

In the absolute cvnts thread you mentioned a housing officer putting up a 17 year old girl in a brothel because no other accommodation could be found, now you are complaining that the people who use spare rooms to store wheel chairs are having to give them up. Possibly if more people gave up their spare rooms used for storage more people like the girl you mentioned may be able to get the accommodation they need?

[Guest MattP]

In the absolute cvnts thread you mentioned a housing officer putting up a 17 year old girl in a brothel because no other accommodation could be found, now you are complaining that the people who use spare rooms to store wheel chairs are having to give them up. Possibly if more people gave up their spare rooms used for storage more people like the girl you mentioned may be able to get the accommodation they need?

 

I am sure the irony of Rincewind supporting the homeless right to accomodation whilst demanding the taxpayer pays for a person to live in four bedroom house has escaped anyone.

 

If if wasn't a Tory policy it wouldn't bother him one bit.

[Jon the Hat]

Guesswork mainly. I was just trying to show as you go up the pay scale you can afford to improve your lifestyle unless you waste your money.

And paying three or four times as much to get to the same place in the same plane isn't wasting money?? You are way off there.

[Jon the Hat]

Here's what I said:

Again - the example I'm using is a real one, that I know from very close personal experience (they're my in-laws!) and so it's validity isn't really in question. Regardless of that, my points still stand, that being rich/very comfortable isn't just about income, it's about the lifestyle, choices and opportunities that people are able to take.

Read my post, quoted above, I explicitly said they weren't rich.

A lot of posts in this thread keeping coming back to this sort of point. It seems to me to be reducing whether someone's rich or not, merely down to the amount of disposable income available.

It's about how much you are able to spend surely?

You're all telling me that if I was on 100K a year and spent £99,000, thus leaving me with only £1,000, that I'm not rich?!?

The emboldened bit sums it up really - yes! he choses that lifestyle! So he's rich, it's a choice to do that and more importantly he's empowered by his 200k income to chose that lifestyle, it's not a choice we all have is it?

How old are your in laws ? You do realise they might have inherited money, got bonuses, paid off their mortgage ? You don't get those things earning well for one year.

[Rincewind]

And paying three or four times as much to get to the same place in the same plane isn't wasting money?? You are way off there.

Didn't say it wasn't a waste of money just that they could afford it