People earning £60k are not rich?

[The People's Hero]

Very interesting thread. There's definitely some differing opinion as to what constitutes rich. I suppose that depends on your circumstances.

My two cents is that a high income does not always equal wealth. You're wealthy when you can pay for your desired lifestyle with income from sources not tied directly to your time, or at least not 100% dependant on your time.

I earn six figures but don't consider myself wealthy. I'm debt free and have a nice lifestyle but don't have a huge pension pot and don't have a lot of investments

As someone else mentioned, you don't get rich working in a salaried job, with only a few exceptions.

I think that's probably quite an elegant way of putting it.

Nicely done as well mate. I know you've worked hard at it and made some big decisions over that time.

[Monk]

I think that's probably quite an elegant way of putting it.

Nicely done as well mate. I know you've worked hard at it and made some big decisions over that time.

Indeed. But a baby on the way in 9 weeks so that'll probably invalidate anything in my previous comment!

Here's a little parable about wealth:

An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, "only a little while."

The American then asked why didn't he stay out longer and catch more fish?

The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs.

The American then asked, "but what do you do with the rest of your time?"

The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life."

The American scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise."

The Mexican fisherman asked, "But, how long will this all take?"

To which the American replied, "15 - 20 years."

"But what then?" Asked the Mexican.

The American laughed and said, "That's the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions!"

"Millions - then what?"

The American said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."

[The People's Hero]

All the best with the new arrival mate.

[Rincewind]

Nice story Monk. Being rich is not always about money, I have had a little stick for never being ambitious but I have never saw myself as managerial or boss material. I have never wanted for anything, had holidays, possessions and ate reasonably well. Why would I want the stress of never knowing if my business is still afloat every week.

My brother worked his way from a B&B to a hotel. He worked hard at the B&B with a hands on approach. As he progressed he delegated more and more until he moved to the hotel partnership. He employed a n acquaintance and friend to manage it and hoped he could spend more time with the family or be on the golf course. But he kept getting calls to sort problems out so let the manager go to do the job. They then had an offer from a hotel chain. Sold out and he retired at around 55. He has enough in the bank to live on probably some investments plays poker to win and in the last month moved into a smaller property with kids grown up. He is two years older than me. He is also very money conscious so would never spend untill he weighed up all the options and found the most profitable one.

Once he was renewing his car tax. He called his company and they gave a quote he said not good enough I have a figure written down go and have a word with your line manager if the new offer is better I'll take it if not i will hang up and you won't hear from me again. They came back with a quote much lower so he took it. I would never think of doing that.

Hopefully I will cope in my remaining years.

 

Finally there is an old saying 'What you never had you will never miss.'

[MooseBreath]

I don't know how you can earn six figures and not have your financial future fully secured. If I was on £100k it would take me less than 10 years to get to the stage where I could retire if I wanted. I guess it's true when they say the more you earn, the more you fill your life with pointless material crap. It often strikes me that a lot of well paid people are far more concerned about putting on a show of wealth than they are in properly looking after their money. A lot of the senior guys at my place who are typically on about £50k know everything about BMW's and Rolexes but wouldn't have a clue how to set up a decent investment portfolio. Maybe there's a certain kind of vain desperation that comes with salary success.

[Jace]

The household itself really has to be considered if you had a couple who had no children both on £60k per year you would be fairly wealthy, if you were on 60k a year partner didn't work and you had several children to support then you would probably be financially secure but certainly not rich

[Monk]

Don't agree with all of that MooseBreath. Yes there are plenty of people who earn good money and spend it all on material stuff. But people live beyond their means in all walks of life.

If you're referring to my comment specifically all of my savings are going towards a decent house deposit. Times haven't always been this good - started a business 2 years ago and year 1 I had - lot of debt to pay off.

The only think I really splurge on is travel, but to me that's one of the things I enjoy most in life, which makes the stupid hours I work worth it.

Saving for retirement in 10 years obviously depends on your age - I'm 31, can't see my current income alone allowing me to retire at 41 even on a frugal lifestyle.

[cambridgefox]

I think we manage our money fairly well, definitely not in the rich category but have a joint income of about 80k.Lots of friends earn less and lots considerably more.Never try to keep up with the Joneses but like monk do enjoy holidays.2 kids so holiday spends have been 10k each of the last 2 years.Have a few shares and save up for things like bathroom,garden,kitchen and ensuite to be fitted/re doneAfter that I really don't have too much for savings as this goes on the above.im happy with this,I could have a bigger house but I wouldn't want to change my lifestyle for a larger mortgage.ok ,I have a 4 bed detached but it's not that big,it would be a good 3 bed to be honest.Do appreciate this but I've had hard times too.My wife has a job that probably isn't safe from one year to the next as a business manager for a bank( not that well paid for hours,pressure)

Got a mate who is on the board of directors at Aviva and another is a Director of a company on the money markets.Both earn obscene amounts.Both hate their jobs with a passion and I wouldn't ever change roles with them.

[absolutelegend]

Easiest thread in the world to answer.  Nowhere near rich.  Not even close.

[Les-TA-Jon]

I'm confused by some people on this thread. Earning 60-100k plus and still not rich/comfortable? 

 

What? 

 

As I've said already - I think a lot of the disagreements in this thread, and generally in public discourses that surround wealth, rich(ness), income, poverty etc, comes down to language and it's connotations. 

 

"Rich" and "Wealthy" are very strong words. I wouldn't say that someone earning 60K is rich, but I'd say they're pretty lucky, most definitely comfortable and can't really justify having any complaints. 

 

The thing is people are like goldfishes - they grow to the size of their bowl (income). If I was given an immediate pay rise of 20K, I wouldn't be saving 20K more per year would I? I'd just spend more. 

 

But the point there is that, that extra spending is still a choice. Merely having the choice is what makes me comfortable (or even potentially rich). Actually acting on the choice and then spending more on various unnecessary things makes you rich/comfortable. 

 

My previous example was a family that earn 60-80K, have a big house, 2 cars, several breaks/holidays, expensive food/entertainment etc, but sometimes complain about having no money, or the cost of stuff! That's because you're spending it!!!

 

The mere fact that you can is what makes you rich.  

[absolutelegend]

 

My previous example was a family that earn 60-80K, have a big house, 2 cars, several breaks/holidays, expensive food/entertainment etc, but sometimes complain about having no money, or the cost of stuff! That's because you're spending it!!!

 

big house, 2 cars, several holidays on 60K?  no chance.  especially if you have a wife and kids to support.

[Bryn]

I'm confused by some people on this thread. Earning 60-100k plus and still not rich/comfortable? 

 

What? 

 

As I've said already - I think a lot of the disagreements in this thread, and generally in public discourses that surround wealth, rich(ness), income, poverty etc, comes down to language and it's connotations. 

 

"Rich" and "Wealthy" are very strong words. I wouldn't say that someone earning 60K is rich, but I'd say they're pretty lucky, most definitely comfortable and can't really justify having any complaints. 

 

The thing is people are like goldfishes - they grow to the size of their bowl (income). If I was given an immediate pay rise of 20K, I wouldn't be saving 20K more per year would I? I'd just spend more. 

 

But the point there is that, that extra spending is still a choice. Merely having the choice is what makes me comfortable (or even potentially rich). Actually acting on the choice and then spending more on various unnecessary things makes you rich/comfortable. 

 

My previous example was a family that earn 60-80K, have a big house, 2 cars, several breaks/holidays, expensive food/entertainment etc, but sometimes complain about having no money, or the cost of stuff! That's because you're spending it!!!

 

The mere fact that you can is what makes you rich.  

 

They're not rich mate, they're just better off than you. I don't say that to be harsh, it's just true, £60k a year isn't rich just because some people earn less.

[Jace]

I'm confused by some people on this thread. Earning 60-100k plus and still not rich/comfortable? 

 

What? 

 

As I've said already - I think a lot of the disagreements in this thread, and generally in public discourses that surround wealth, rich(ness), income, poverty etc, comes down to language and it's connotations. 

 

"Rich" and "Wealthy" are very strong words. I wouldn't say that someone earning 60K is rich, but I'd say they're pretty lucky, most definitely comfortable and can't really justify having any complaints. 

 

The thing is people are like goldfishes - they grow to the size of their bowl (income). If I was given an immediate pay rise of 20K, I wouldn't be saving 20K more per year would I? I'd just spend more. 

 

But the point there is that, that extra spending is still a choice. Merely having the choice is what makes me comfortable (or even potentially rich). Actually acting on the choice and then spending more on various unnecessary things makes you rich/comfortable. 

 

My previous example was a family that earn 60-80K, have a big house, 2 cars, several breaks/holidays, expensive food/entertainment etc, but sometimes complain about having no money, or the cost of stuff! That's because you're spending it!!!

 

The mere fact that you can is what makes you rich.  

 

Many people on 60k wouldn't be able to afford all that though, especially if it was 1 earner as they would then be subject to higher rate tax wouldn't receive tax credits, child benefit, housing benefit, healthcare exemptions, free school dinners, help with transport, kids uniforms etc it would be far from the life of luxury

[Rincewind]

But if you are having two holidays a year costing 1-5k it is a lot better than a lot of people. If you are struggling have one holiday or two 500£ hols you do not have to spend it

[Rincewind]

Many people on 60k wouldn't be able to afford all that though, especially if it was 1 earner as they would then be subject to higher rate tax wouldn't receive tax credits, child benefit, housing benefit, healthcare exemptions, free school dinners, help with transport, kids uniforms etc it would be far from the life of luxury

Do you think all the benefits equals £60k?

[Guest ttfn]

But if you are having two holidays a year costing 1-5k it is a lot better than a lot of people. If you are struggling have one holiday or two 500£ hols you do not have to spend it

I havent been able to afford a £500 holiday for three years. My fiancée and I have a total gross income of about £100k. We have spent the overwhelming majority of our money since then on saving for a deposit for a 2 bed flat.

If you're telling me that owning a 2 bed flat, not owning a car and not being able to afford holidays is wealthy then the definition of the word has changed beyond all recognition.

My only extravagance is a City season ticket, something that plenty of people earning far less than I do wouldn't consider a particular luxury.

Maybe if you've earned £60k for 30 years you might be rich. But this certainly goes to show the fallacy of basing "wealth" solely on income.

[MooseBreath]

I havent been able to afford a £500 holiday for three years. My fiancée and I have a total gross income of about £100k. We have spent the overwhelming majority of our money since then on saving for a deposit for a 2 bed flat.

If you're telling me that owning a 2 bed flat, not owning a car and not being able to afford holidays is wealthy then the definition of the word has changed beyond all recognition.

My only extravagance is a City season ticket, something that plenty of people earning far less than I do wouldn't consider a particular luxury.

Maybe if you've earned £60k for 30 years you might be rich. But this certainly goes to show the fallacy of basing "wealth" solely on income.

£100k joint income is what, £6k per month after tax? I don't think you'll convince many people you wouldn't have been able to afford a £500 holiday in the last three years if that's what you wanted. Average rents are only about £600, ok maybe £1k in London if you live there. Still leaves you five grand every month to spend or save on what you want. Not exactly bread line stuff. You could be rich in a decade if you wanted to be.

[AS78UK]

My circumstances, I am on 59k a year. For comparison purposes a good example.

I actually take home 36k a year after tax, NI and 3% pension.

This means I get no other financial support from the government including child benefit.

I have two kids under 5 years and a stay at home wife as the cost of childcare wouldn't stack up.

We live in an 3 bed semi in what was an old council house brought in 2008 just before the crash.

Currently no debts but no savings either, other than a mortgage and negative equity.

We have two cars both over 8 years old.

Can afford one UK holiday a year.

Do I feel rich? You decide?

Before the kids we both earned 45k between us and took home a similar amount to know. We could save over 10k a year comfortably back then and if we earned the same now, we would also qualify for child benefit another 135 a month.

All about circumstances.

[jonthefox]

Looking at what a few earn on here, i can safely say i'm not rich..far from it.

[Rincewind]

Just doing a post and my laptop was automatically restarted after an AV update. Lost it. Forget what I put.

 

Isn't the cap "25k on benefits? I remember some posts saying I wish I was on £25k.

To day I;ve had a 55p lasagne and a 60p steak pie same yesterday,

If someone is on £60k and a lifestyle to suit £65k then they WILL struggle. It would be best to reduce to a $55k lifestyle.

Of course if you are saving for mortgage things will be tight for a few years.

Same for someone on £300pw who goes down to £71 because of loss of work injury, illness etc

Benefits are only made up to what is deemed a 'living income'  Maybe they should raise the threshold to £60k

 

As others have said it's down to circumstances.

 

My monthly income will be when I sort my pension etc out will be about £560 plus any housing or CT I'm entitled to. (I will have to pay a percentage of CT and any shortfall of rent)

I will have to still pay fuel bills, food etc I don't think it totals £60k but on the plus side I don't have the luxury of a wife which saves me a few pence.

[Guest ttfn]

£100k joint income is what, £6k per month after tax? I don't think you'll convince many people you wouldn't have been able to afford a £500 holiday in the last three years if that's what you wanted. Average rents are only about £600, ok maybe £1k in London if you live there. Still leaves you five grand every month to spend or save on what you want. Not exactly bread line stuff. You could be rich in a decade if you wanted to be.

It's nowhere near £6k.

It's nowhere near £1k in rent.

Never said it was breadline stuff.

EDIT: I thought it was Rincewind!

[Guest MattP]

All depends on your lifestyle.

I know people on 50k who do nothing and spend nothing, they could be classed as rich.

I know a guy on 200k a year, rents a flat, no dependants and he's absolutely skint due to the lifestyle he lives.

If I was on a salary of six figures I wouldn't be rich, I'd live a decent lifestyle no doubt, but I very much doubt I'd have savings.

[Jace]

Do you think all the benefits equals £60k?

No I didn't say that at all and by the way I have been a benefits advisor for the last 6 years.

[MooseBreath]

It's nowhere near £6k.

It's nowhere near £1k in rent.

Never said it was breadline stuff.

EDIT: I thought it was Rincewind!

Never been so offended, seriously, Rincewind?!? I didn't even mention my therapy groups.

[Guest ttfn]

Never been so offended, seriously, Rincewind?!? I didn't even mention my therapy groups.

I was alerted by the fact that there were no mentions of the homeless in your post.