Too many pupils "Failures at seven"

[Jon the Hat]

According to this rather depressing study, if your kids haven't nailed reading early enough and fall behind at seven, we are not able to bring them in line with those who dont fall behind by the time they sit their GCSEs.

 

This is not about Rich vs Poor, this is about lving in a home that encourages and values reading and education in general.

 

Seeing as we have had quite a whinging thread about teaching recently, how about some positivie thinking??  What do we change to improve the outlook for these kids and stop another generation falling into this trap? Before and at school.

[Jon the Hat]

Much earlier inevention is key for me.  We need to stop wasting time talking about the gap, and bemoaning the sucess of the better off - evidently they spend more time reading with their kids, and this makes a big difference.  This is quite pertinent in my house at the moment, as 3+ years of reading stories to my duaghter every night is paying dividends now she has started reception, she is so excited about being able to start spelling out words herself.  On the flip side, she was upset that another child got to take a reader home from school before her, so I can only imaging the upset of finding yourself left behind in these early stages.

 

What that early intervention looks like is rather more difficult!

[leicsmac]

You've hit the nail on the head. Bad parenting and apathy at home is going to encourage apathy for learning at school, and unfortunately that's a societal problem that the education system alone cannot solve.

 

However to help I would really recommend more flexible means of education as every pupil learns differently, through different visual, aural and activity-based cues. However that would mean lowering class sizes in order to tailor the lessons more individually and that would mean more staff, hence more money. But a 'one size fits all' education policy is not the way forward.

[Finnegan]

Teaching kids as per their ability / needs and not the year they happened to be born in would be nice.

All of these threads should start with a link to a Ken Robinson lecture.

[Alf Bentley]

Much earlier inevention is key for me.  We need to stop wasting time talking about the gap, and bemoaning the sucess of the better off - evidently they spend more time reading with their kids, and this makes a big difference.  This is quite pertinent in my house at the moment, as 3+ years of reading stories to my duaghter every night is paying dividends now she has started reception, she is so excited about being able to start spelling out words herself.  On the flip side, she was upset that another child got to take a reader home from school before her, so I can only imaging the upset of finding yourself left behind in these early stages.

 

What that early intervention looks like is rather more difficult!

 

Maybe part of that early intervention is somehow encouraging parents to interact with children, speak to them etc? When our daughter was younger, my mother used to praise us for talking to her a lot, which I found bizarre, as it was just a natural instinct, not some sort of responsible parenting decision. "Don't all parents talk to their children?", I thought. But looking around, many don't! I don't say that to be smug (we've made mistakes in other areas and will make more), as a lot of parents have stressful lives, long hours of work or short of cash in this ever more demanding material world of ours. Then, there's the ready availability of TV and other electrical gadgets - passive language consumption, not active language use/conversation. How you change the parenting environment without major change in the "work long hours for material goodies - or get stressed cos you can't afford them" culture, I'm not sure.

 

Language is initially verbal, of course - reading/writing is an add-on to verbal communication, important as it is. 

 

The idea that "you're lost if you've fallen behind at age 7" is an interesting one. My Dad grew up in a large, fairly poor farming family in the west of Ireland and didn't even start school until age 7. Nor did he live in a home where reading was encouraged - his early reading was cowboy comics obtained from other kids, but he went on to do the Irish equivalent of A-levels (unusual back in the 1940s, for someone of his class), got a white collar job in England, good OU degree, fluent Greek etc. Now, he obviously had above-average ability, but I imagine that the extensive verbal communication (talkative parents/neighbours & 8 siblings) also helped. His siblings left school at 13-14 but became intelligent, articulate people - even the ones who "remained on the farm".

[Alf Bentley]

Teaching kids as per their ability / needs and not the year they happened to be born in would be nice.

All of these threads should start with a link to a Ken Robinson lecture.

 

Maybe it's different where you live, but at my daughter's school (in Leicester) kids ARE put in groups according to their ability/needs (within their year group, admittedly) for Maths & Reading/Writing...from age 7, if I remember correctly.

 

As Jon correctly points out, though, even at a young age kids are very aware of their "status" at Maths, English etc. A couple of years back (age 7?), my daughter was put down by a group in Maths as the school felt she'd benefit from taking it a bit more slowly at the time - and she was absolutely distraught, seeing herself as a failure, even though she was doing absolutely fine. I imagine that would be worse for a kid who, say, found themselves doing English with kids 2 years younger...

 

I'm sure one thing kids need is less stress/competition, fewer targets etc. (targets are recorded in the kids' work books at our daughter's school - isn't it enough for the teacher to keep records?).

 

Kids 40 years ago (as I was) were aware of who were the "clever ones at sums" or "no good at spelling", but it seemed less of an issue, somehow. The fact that you now have primary school kids being tutored for, or worrying about SATS tests (which are supposed to assess the teachers, not the kids) is an absolute obscenity!

[Harry - LCFC]

Parenting. I think it really is that simple. If a child isn't able to read at that age then I think you can only blame those who brought him or her up.

[davieG]

You don't need to be able to read or do maths to win XFactor or Britain's got Talent or to become a 15 minute celebrity which seems to be the aspirations of many parents and children.

 

We need to return to the days when people of substance like engineers were the celebrities. 

[ADK]

On the flip side you could just as easily argue that thick kids have fallen behind by age 7 and don't generally catch up.

[Alf Bentley]

On the flip side you could just as easily argue that thick kids have fallen behind by age 7 and don't generally catch up.

 

I'm sorry for your trouble.

 

[ADK]

 

I'll also add that implying anyone who isn't academic is a "failure" is rather offensive.

[Zingari]

Roses don't all blossom simultaneously. 

[Alf Bentley]

 

I'll also add that implying anyone who isn't academic is a "failure" is rather offensive.

 

Agree with that 100%. I've known some thick people with Oxbridge degrees and some people who've achieved great success with few qualifications...some of whom would have been deemed to have been "failing" at age 7.

 

Roses don't all blossom simultaneously. 

 

Is that some sort of truncated haiku inserted to please Rincewind, or a bit of Confucian wisdom or something?!

 

In all seriousness, I agree 100% again!

[Zingari]

Agree with that 100%. I've known some thick people with Oxbridge degrees and some people who've achieved great success with few qualifications...some of whom would have been deemed to have been "failing" at age 7.

 

 

Is that some sort of truncated haiku inserted to please Rincewind, or a bit of Confucian wisdom or something?!

 

In all seriousness, I agree 100% again!

no it was something my grandmother used to say when talking about kids who didn't seen to be learning as fast as others.

She also said something about continually weighing the calf doesn't fatten it , in relation to constant testing of kids .

[Alf Bentley]

no it was something my grandmother used to say when talking about kids who didn't seen to be learning as fast as others.

She also said something about continually weighing the calf doesn't fatten it , in relation to constant testing of kids .

 

Sounds like your grandmother would have been a better Education Secretary than we've had in my lifetime, then!

[Jon the Hat]

On the flip side you could just as easily argue that thick kids have fallen behind by age 7 and don't generally catch up.

 

And that poor kids are more likely to be thick?  I see you argument here, but I don't buy it.  70,000 kids are deemed to be below where they should be at 7.  We can't have 70,000 thick kids?  I cant believe they are setting the bar very high.

 

 

I'll also add that implying anyone who isn't academic is a "failure" is rather offensive.

 

Reading is a pretty fundamental part of lots of things.  Simply whether you are destined to be an Oxford Don or a bin man, being able to read is something we are all capable of with very few exceptions. 

[Zingari]

Sounds like your grandmother would have been a better Education Secretary than we've had in my lifetime, then!

I'd love to think that she was some sort of wise old mystic woman. but in all probability she was just repeating something she'd read on the top of the old fashioned tombola tickets .   ( not many on here will remember bingo tickets having proverby type headings on them )

 

 

i suppose she must have grasped the meaning and relevance of it though, 

[ADK]

And that poor kids are more likely to be thick?  I see you argument here, but I don't buy it.  70,000 kids are deemed to be below where they should be at 7.  We can't have 70,000 thick kids?  I cant believe they are setting the bar very high.

 

 

Reading is a pretty fundamental part of lots of things.  Simply whether you are destined to be an Oxford Don or a bin man, being able to read is something we are all capable of with very few exceptions. 

 

I wasn't really arguing that poor people are more likely to be thick, just that it's not necessarily shocking that non academic kids remain non academic in later years.

 

As for poor people achieving less, well that is hardly a revelation, the causes need far more investigation before people can start suggesting interventions though. There are probably many reasons to do with opportunity and the aptitude of the parents. 

[Webbo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-24433320

 

 

Young adults in England have scored among the lowest results in the industrialised world in international literacy and numeracy tests.

A major study by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) shows how England's 16 to 24-year-olds are falling behind their Asian and European counterparts.

England is 22nd for literacy and 21st for numeracy out of 24 countries.

The OECD's Andreas Schleicher warned of a shrinking pool of skilled workers.

Unlike other developed countries, the study also showed that young people in England are no better at these tests than older people, in the 55 to 65 age range.

When this is weighted with other factors, such as the socio-economic background of people taking the test, it shows that England is the only country in the survey where results are going backwards - with the older cohort better than the younger.

Obviously I'm not a teacher so I'm not qualified to comment but it seems the experts who ran education before Michael Gove weren't doing the brilliant job they thought they were.

[Lobsterboyuk]

You don't need to be able to read or do maths to win XFactor or Britain's got Talent or to become a 15 minute celebrity which seems to be the aspirations of many parents and children.

 

We need to return to the days when people of substance like engineers were the celebrities. 

 

An apt point on the day that Peter Higgs shares the Nobel physics prize. Do enough people in this country have the first idea who he is and what he has achieved? Or will he have to eat insects off of the plastic boobs of an ex-glamour model in the jungle live on an ITV2 reality TV show before the general populous recognise him?

[ADK]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-24433320

 

 

Obviously I'm not a teacher so I'm not qualified to comment but it seems the experts who ran education before Michael Gove weren't doing the brilliant job they thought they were.

 

Interesting how the USA came bottom. That right wing utopia.

[Webbo]

Interesting how the USA came bottom. That right wing utopia.

I don't care about america,I care about this country.

[leicsmac]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-24433320

 

 

Obviously I'm not a teacher so I'm not qualified to comment but it seems the experts who ran education before Michael Gove weren't doing the brilliant job they thought they were.

 

That doesn't necessary preclude a career politician who has never taught a day in his life will know better. Devil and deep blue sea.

 

I think we do need to swallow our pride and look at other countries for education ideas, as has been mentioned on here before. Personally I'd prefer the Scandinavian system over the Far Eastern one due to the rigidity and 'one size fits all' pressure cooker approach of the latter (produces results but so many kids get left at the wayside with no options), but changes have to be made.

 

An apt point on the day that Peter Higgs shares the Nobel physics prize. Do enough people in this country have the first idea who he is and what he has achieved? Or will he have to eat insects off of the plastic boobs of an ex-glamour model in the jungle live on an ITV2 reality TV show before the general populous recognise him?

 

The culture of celebrity in this country is too strong. Most people want vain, vapid and shallow. Sad.

 

And also...there's attacks from the other side too - I know people who think Professor Brian Cox has 'sold out' by trying to explain advanced science to lots of people. Geek elitism at its finest.

[ADK]

Surely we have enough literate people left in the UK to actually work out why these other countries are outperforming us?

[Matt]

All based on test and results again then...

Failures? Hmmm ok.