Do businesses really want work.

[ADK]

I think we might be feeling the aftershocks of a decade or so of young people not being invested in.

 

It might be profitable to be a plumber now but what are the opportunities for young people to become skilled tradesmen?

 

A friend wanted to go down that route a few years ago but found nobody was offering training because they could simply bring in someone polish who was ready qualified to do the work. Now we see demand increasing and some of those immigrants returning home and we have a shortfall. It is what happens when you don't invest in young people.

 

If you think about it though:

 

Company A chooses to invest in apprentices, company B doesn't and simply tries to poach trained workers. If it costs company A money to train apprentices then it will struggle to compete with company B. So company A stops training apprentices. The end result is both companies end up short of staff and the cost of staff rises. It's a classic bit of game theory.

[davieG]

I think we might be feeling the aftershocks of a decade or so of young people not being invested in.

 

It might be profitable to be a plumber now but what are the opportunities for young people to become skilled tradesmen?

 

A friend wanted to go down that route a few years ago but found nobody was offering training because they could simply bring in someone polish who was ready qualified to do the work. Now we see demand increasing and some of those immigrants returning home and we have a shortfall. It is what happens when you don't invest in young people.

 

If you think about it though:

 

Company A chooses to invest in apprentices, company B doesn't and simply tries to poach trained workers. If it costs company A money to train apprentices then it will struggle to compete with company B. So company A stops training apprentices. The end result is both companies end up short of staff and the cost of staff rises. It's a classic bit of game theory.

Also due to the relentless pressure put on school leavers to go to university there have been less people of the right calibre from which to recruit apprentices.

Id suggest that being an apprentice has been systematically put across as being second rate even though there seems to be plenty of graduates that can't get a decent job due to the degree they've taken.

[davieG]

Just to add that during times of recession the training budget is always the first to be cut often totally annihilated.

[Soar Fox]

When I was at school 10 years ago the school and teachers only seemed interesting in pushing people towards going to university.

I had a careers meeting and they asked me what I wanted to do when I left school, I said car mechanic. The response I got was "why do you want to do a dirty job like that" then a load of university booklets got pushed towards me instead.

[pSinatra]

I worked for the council & I was lucky enough to get in when they used to train people to do their job properly.  I went Brooksby College for RHS Certificate in Gardening, chainsaw/tree felling certificates, NVQ's, chemical spraying, etc.

 

I don't know if it was a deliberate decision on their part or if it was down to budget cuts, but that all changed about 5 years ago.  Now they just employ any old twat & any knowledge in the job is minimal (if at all).  They've never been near any gardening equipment & their only experience is their own back garden.  They can't identify any plants, don't know when or how to prune & ask them the simplest of questions - they don't know.  It's embarrassing, when the residents are paying good money for a service they aren't receiving.

 

The council is only interested in doing the bare minimum, as I guess they aren't answerable to anyone.  The residents have to like it or lump it.  It's why I got out.

 

Most of my work is through word-of-mouth & my reputation is everything.  It wouldn't take long to lose that reputation if I was to cut corners, rip people off or let people down.

 

I can't think I've ever told someone I would be somewhere & not turned up........or at least given the customer a call to let them know I'm running late.

 

This is my busiest time of the year & there are some jobs that I have to turn down.  What's the point in saying you can do a job, not turning up & have that customer tell everyone he knows & everyone on here?  It just shows how quickly word can get around that you are untrustworthy & that you would be better off trying someone else.

[davieG]

What is wrong with businesses these days it's so hard to get them to do work for you.

 

I've been trying to get someone to cut back a dangerous tree in my garden, after several calls the guy came and gave me a quote £300 and said he'd ring on Sunday to say when he could do it - no call received !!!

 

I have a property that has been damaged by fire that needs cleaning up.

 

First company emailed and called. left message no reply, rang again spoke to a guy he promised he'd call me back at 9.30 the following morning - no further contact !!!!

 

Contacted another company, success the guy came and looked and promised us a prompt quote, 1 week later it finally arrives  £2700. Tried to contact him 3 times on the phone to give the go ahead been round the houses press 1, 2 etc etc, spoke to admin staff and other personnel been promised he'd ring back no - no call received!!!

 

So that's £3000 worth of business that doesn't seem to be wanted, I thought people were desperate for work!!!

 

Totally frustrated and pissed off!!!!!

 

 

Rant over, off to hopefully get a garage to do £200 worth of repairs on my car.

Oh well yet another example of could care less customer service.

 

Took my car in at 9.30 as agreed was told it would be a 3/4 hr job. Having heard nothing by 4.00 rang up and someone promised they'd get the boss to ring back in 20 mins.

 

5.30 still no call rang them and I'm told the job is done but it's now too late for me to pick up so will have to do it tomorrow.

[pSinatra]

Oh well yet another example of could care less customer service.

 

Took my car in at 9.30 as agreed was told it would be a 3/4 hr job. Having heard nothing by 4.00 rang up and someone promised they'd get the boss to ring back in 20 mins.

 

5.30 still no call rang them and I'm told the job is done but it's now too late for me to pick up so will have to do it tomorrow.

 

My neighbour has just been round with a similar complaint.

 

His car was supposed to be picked up today to be taken for repair - an insurance job.  He rang the garage to ask when they were picking up & says he got some snotty woman who told him it could be any time this afternoon.  They haven't turned up.

 

He's got to go out & is working in the morning, so he's left the keys with me so I can give them to the driver from the garage.  I don't know the garage but it's in Hamilton somewhere?

 

So he's been waiting all day for something that was never going to happen & now I'm stuck in the house until they eventually turn up.

[Stadt]

I'm in year 11, my year group is the first year to either have to stay on to do A levels or get an apprenticeship.

Not many seem to be going for an apprenticeship and the ones that are seem to think'll it will be easy and there's not much work involved.

[Haydos]

I'm in year 11, my year group is the first year to either have to stay on to do A levels or get an apprenticeship.

Not many seem to be going for an apprenticeship and the ones that are seem to think'll it will be easy and there's not much work involved.

 

What about college or getting another job? How can they force you to do either or? I thought once year 11 was done you were free to do whatever or have things changed?

[Stadt]

What about college or getting another job? How can they force you to do either or? I thought once year 11 was done you were free to do whatever or have things changed?

No it's changed, I probably should have said that you can go to college as well but you couldn't just leave to work at Asda or another dead end job but as far as not bothering I'm not sure what they do.

[ADK]

When I was at school 10 years ago the school and teachers only seemed interesting in pushing people towards going to university.

I had a careers meeting and they asked me what I wanted to do when I left school, I said car mechanic. The response I got was "why do you want to do a dirty job like that" then a load of university booklets got pushed towards me instead.

 

Same here. And many people who went to low tier uni's doing shit subjects have ended up working low paid jobs that pay far less than a car mechanic can get.

[yorkie1999]

You seriously think Wilson and Thatcher would have closed the pits had they been making a profit for the country?

 

Come on Zing, even for you that's a conspiracy theory too far!

He's right though, documents are coming to light now that document mp's wishes to destroy the num because of its power. 

[davieG]

In my last two jobs, I'm retired now I was responsible for the recruitment and training of apprentices and trainee engineers. The apprentice need 5 GCSEs at 5 or above and started on ONC - HNC/HND and the engineers needed 3 A levels and started on HNC both need maths and English.

 

 

20% of the apprentices and 90% of the engineers went on to be sponsored to do sandwich/part-time degrees in engineering. It may have taken them 4 to 7 years or so but they ended up as experienced Technicians/Engineers on top wages with no debts.

 

If you can find a company to do that for you then you're going to be much better off than going straight to a degree.

 

These were in mechanical/software/electrical/construction engineering.

 

One of them ended up being my boss/director just before I retired.

[yorkie1999]

In my last two jobs, I'm retired now I was responsible for the recruitment and training of apprentices and trainee engineers. The apprentice need 5 GCSEs at 5 or above and started on ONC - HNC/HND and the engineers needed 3 A levels and started on HNC both need maths and English.

 

 

20% of the apprentices and 90% of the engineers went on to be sponsored to do sandwich/part-time degrees in engineering. It may have taken them 4 to 7 years or so but they ended up as experienced Technicians/Engineers on top wages with no debts.

 

If you can find a company to do that for you then you're going to be much better off than going straight to a degree.

 

These were in mechanical/software/electrical/construction engineering.

 

One of them ended up being my boss/director just before I retired.

Where at?, if you don't mind me asking.

[davieG]

Where at?, if you don't mind me asking.

I'd sooner not say. i'm fairly sure neither of them still put that much into their apprentice schemes. I'd like to think a lot of it was down to my influence. Being an ex apprentice myself it was something i was very keen on.

[yorkie1999]

I'd sooner not say. i'm fairly sure neither of them still put that much into their apprentice schemes. I'd like to think a lot of it was down to my influence. Being an ex apprentice myself it was something i was very keen on.

okay

[Bryn]

My careers advice meeting when I was 15, so about 9 years ago now, was absolutely entirely focused on getting people into Uni. To this day I don't understand why such a focus came about, and now we're feeling the after effects with thousands of graduates unemployed. I've got a friend, an intelligent, charismatic and thoroughly decent girl the same age as me, did a good degree (Biology) at a good institution (Manchester). Just took a job at Pizza Hut.

 

For me personally I was always going to pursue something academic, given that I'm above averagely intelligent and shockingly below average in terms of practicality, but for some people it was terrible advice. When the tuition fees went up, I personally felt that tuition fees should be slashed, with funding for useless courses at crap institutions slashed as well, with the money saved from paying loans/grants to these futile endeavous going to apprenticeships and to stimulate jobs. But the focus on crowbarring kids who don't want to go to University into it continues despite the costs and lack of opportunities. Utterly bizarre and I don't understand who and from where it comes from.

[sphericalfox]

What benefits are there for a small independent company of plumbers, builders, electricians to take on apprentices? You and other companies take on young lads to eventually dilute the marketplace, and reduce the potential profits you can be making due to competition. Short-sighted greed?

[Zingari]

What benefits are there for a small independent company of plumbers, builders, electricians to take on apprentices? You and other companies take on young lads to eventually dilute the marketplace, and reduce the potential profits you can be making due to competition. Short-sighted greed?

If I understand you correctly, that's a very good point spherical.

The best way for tradesmen to keep  higher rates is to keep themselves in higher demand. And as you say, if they  train lots of others to do the job , they do in fact  become your competitors in the marketplace.

[Webbo]

As you get older the idea of having a youngster doing the grunt work becomes more appealing. You can also pay them less.

[sphericalfox]

As you get older the idea of having a youngster doing the grunt work becomes more appealing. You can also pay them less.

 

Sure I have heard plenty of stories of youngsters brought in as apprentices to do the grunt work, they get tormented and bullied and eventually get sick of it and leave the trade too disillusioned and bitter. Not sure if it's a conscious thing, but it certainly leaves a huge generational gap of both technical and practical knowledge that we as customers pay through the nose for.

[Webbo]

Sure I have heard plenty of stories of youngsters brought in as apprentices to do the grunt work, they get tormented and bullied and eventually get sick of it and leave the trade too disillusioned and bitter. Not sure if it's a conscious thing, but it certainly leaves a huge generational gap of both technical and practical knowledge that we as customers pay through the nose for.

We've all had to do it.

 

We're not social workers we're in the building trade, if you're too soft you'll get shat on. If you can't handle a few bollockings you're in the wrong trade.

[Guesty]

My careers advice meeting when I was 15, so about 9 years ago now, was absolutely entirely focused on getting people into Uni. To this day I don't understand why such a focus came about, and now we're feeling the after effects with thousands of graduates unemployed. I've got a friend, an intelligent, charismatic and thoroughly decent girl the same age as me, did a good degree (Biology) at a good institution (Manchester). Just took a job at Pizza Hut.

 

For me personally I was always going to pursue something academic, given that I'm above averagely intelligent and shockingly below average in terms of practicality, but for some people it was terrible advice. When the tuition fees went up, I personally felt that tuition fees should be slashed, with funding for useless courses at crap institutions slashed as well, with the money saved from paying loans/grants to these futile endeavous going to apprenticeships and to stimulate jobs. But the focus on crowbarring kids who don't want to go to University into it continues despite the costs and lack of opportunities. Utterly bizarre and I don't understand who and from where it comes from.

 

I'm pretty sure for every student who went to Uni the school who sent them got some financial reward.

[pSinatra]

Sure I have heard plenty of stories of youngsters brought in as apprentices to do the grunt work, they get tormented and bullied and eventually get sick of it and leave the trade too disillusioned and bitter. Not sure if it's a conscious thing, but it certainly leaves a huge generational gap of both technical and practical knowledge that we as customers pay through the nose for.

 

I think this happens in all jobs.

 

I've done several jobs, in different environments with people of varying levels of intelligence & experience.  There will always be bullying.....whether it be openly or discreetly.

 

I much prefer things out in the open.  You've got to be able to give as good as you take.  Some can & some can't, but that's life.

[sphericalfox]

We've all had to do it.

 

We're not social workers we're in the building trade, if you're too soft you'll get shat on. If you can't handle a few bollockings you're in the wrong trade.

 

I've heard of trends that weren't bollocking for doing something wrong or merely a bit of banter across several trades. Bordering on the sadistic. No wonder young people are put off these days, and again, I wonder whether it's a conscious or unconscious effort to maintain a status quo.