Tory MP defects to UKIP

[Sir Fynwy]

If Thatcher or Churchill were around to day they would be UKIP members.

Didn't Churchill call for a "United States of Europe"? I'd be with him on that - proper federalism, devolving power to nation states and regions, except for powers that needed to be exercised centrally such as environmental action and wealth redistribution.

I'm actually starting to warm to the idea of Labour in anyway, some great things could come from it. Just get your money out the bank and into something valuable they can't steal from you if you have any for the short time they'll be in power.

1. Let's actually see what they can do when they can't buy votes and borrow ridiculous amounts of money to engorge in the public sector, this deficit has to be paid back, George might even be playing a cool game here by still borrowing these amounts so they can't.

2. [...]

3. 5 Years of Ed and Ed could see off that lot for good for the rest of my lifetime, 2 years of Brown was bad enough, 5 of Ed and Ed could see another Tory government of the length of Thatcher/Major after.

You might have a point here... Could be a good election to lose for either "big party" - and a good time for UKIP to avoid being tainted by real power (look what it's done for the Lib Dems!)

The Scottish referendum could yet be a loose cannon, too...imagine if the Jocks vote "Yes" and Labour take power for 2 years thanks to their Scottish MPs, before having to call another election in 2017 because all the Scots have left and the Tories are suddenly the biggest party again!

If the Scottish vote is a yes and labour win the next general election there will be massive changes to constituency boundaries in the rUK before the new election called in 2017, it will be the biggest shakeup in the UK electoral system since women got the vote.

[Webbo]

Churchill would probably be BNP.

Anti  fascist before anti fascism became popular.

[PAPA LAZAROU]

To think that people on here seriously believe Labour has any chance of forming a government.        Post Rotherham they will be lucky to get in anywhere.

[Rincewind]

To think that people on here seriously believe Labour has any chance of forming a government.        Post Rotherham they will be lucky to get in anywhere.

No doubt the Tories also have some secrets they would rather keep from the general public.

[Strokes]

As a tory fanboy it seems to me if you want less EU the last thing you'd want would be a Labour govt. If UKIP win 10 seats in the next election they'll have surpassed their own wildest dreams. The choice is Tory or Labour.

Alot of people tried to send a message in the European elections, I'm not sure it was heard. I'll be voting Ukip again.

[PAPA LAZAROU]

No doubt the Tories also have some secrets they would rather keep from the general public.

 

No doubt , but who said I'm a Tory ?

[Rincewind]

No doubt , but who said I'm a Tory ?

I was not having a go. One bunch of bad Labour Councillors (well two if you count Soulsby) is not going to influence my decision when it is time to choose. There are some things I am not happy with the Tory's too so it will be a close call as they all shit in the same bucket.

 

Saw an article in one of the papers. Think it was the Guardian so never posted it so not to alienate others, but this article gave a list of who went public school and Oxbridge. Think it was 33% Tory MP's and 23% Labour went Oxbridge (% may be a little out) 7% of the general public went. 46% judges Cant remember the others but the likes of you and me are nowhere.

So there is little difference between them.

[ADK]

No way 7% of people have been Oxbridge

[PAPA LAZAROU]

I was not having a go. One bunch of bad Labour Councillors (well two if you count Soulsby) is not going to influence my decision when it is time to choose. There are some things I am not happy with the Tory's too so it will be a close call as they all shit in the same bucket.

 

Saw an article in one of the papers. Think it was the Guardian so never posted it so not to alienate others, but this article gave a list of who went public school and Oxbridge. Think it was 33% Tory MP's and 23% Labour went Oxbridge (% may be a little out) 7% of the general public went. 46% judges Cant remember the others but the likes of you and me are nowhere.

So there is little difference between them.

 

It's quite simple, the likes of you and me don't have the intelligence or the education to be in government if we did we would be. The thing about Labour is they are full of people just like the Rotherham council , left wing to the point of allowing Asian paedophile gangs to go unchecked and unchallenged for years because of fears of being labled " racist "  And it's not just " one " bad council this has been happening all over the country including Leicester.

[Guest MattP]

7% of the general public went to oxbridge? That's about 4-5 million people

[maddog]

Our net-trade with the EU comes out as a sizable loss. I.e we import more than we export.

Our clout in the EU is minimal because nobody likes David Cameron. Even less after his pathetic attempt to stop that bloke from Luxembourg being appointed.

I despair with politics. Don't even get me started on Alistair Darling lieing through his back teeth about the North Sea oil being a burden for Scotland when the only reason Westminster don't want Scottish Independence is for the North Sea Oil companies tax revenues which makes up nearly a third of all UK Corporation Tax revenues.

Eton level hypocrisy from the conservatives who hire a former UKIP leader to challenge Farage for East Thanet seat to goad voters into thinking 'he was UKIP leader and left to be a standard Conservative MP, therefore UKIP are crap'.

When the shoe is on the other foot and they lose a MP to UKIP - its all oh what a counterproductive thing to do and call it disgraceful.

Hypocrisy at its finest from the Eton educated deluded posh boys that run this country.

[midland_red]

as a fox who hates the tories and UKIP I give full marks to Carswell for doing the honourable thing and resigneing to force a by-election. There have been too many cases of MPs elected for one party then joining the other without their constituents being given a say in the matter

[davieG]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-28953881

 

 

The UK is "deeply elitist" according to an analysis of the backgrounds of more than 4,000 business, political, media and public sector leaders.

Small elites, educated at independent schools and Oxbridge, still dominate top roles, suggests the Social Mobility and Child Poverty Commission study.

It says key institutions do not represent the public they serve.

The Headmasters and Headmistresses Conference of top private heads called the study "unreasonable and unfair".

HMC chairman Richard Harman, headmaster of Uppingham School, said that to suggest that a high number of people in positions of influence were there simply because they went to private schools was "lazy stereotyping and underestimates the diversity within the sector".

 

'Elitist Britain' Educated at private schools

• 71% of senior judges

• 62% of senior armed forces officers

• 55% of top civil servants

• 36% of the Cabinet

• 43% of newspaper columnists

Commission chairman Alan Milburn said the UK's top jobs remain "disproportionately held by people from a narrow range of backgrounds".

"The institutions that matter appear to be a cosy club."

Mr Milburn told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the report serves as a "wake-up call" to schools, universities and government.

He said: "We want the best people in the top jobs, the concern of this is the dominance they exercise.

"If there is one thing that unlocks this huge challenge for the country about the excessive dominance at the top it is the improvements in education."

Continue reading the main story “Start Quote

That is not a recipe for a healthy democratic society”

Alan MilburnSocial Mobility and Child Poverty Commission

'Stark' elitism

"Locking out a diversity of talents and experiences makes Britain's leading institutions less informed, less representative and ultimately less credible than they should be," warned Mr Milburn in his foreword to the report.

"This risks narrowing the conduct of public life to a small few who are very familiar with each other but far less familiar with the day-to-day challenges facing ordinary people in the country.

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Alan Milburn: "The institutions that really matter in our country...they look a bit like a cosy club"

"That is not a recipe for a healthy democratic society."

The commission says its findings are based on one of the most detailed analyses of its type ever undertaken.

It found that those who had attended fee-paying schools included:

• 71% of senior judges
• 62% of senior armed forces officers
• 55% of permanent secretaries (the most senior civil servants)
• 53% of senior diplomats.

Also privately educated were 45% of chairmen and women of public bodies, 44% of the Sunday Times Rich List, 43% of newspaper columnists and 26% of BBC executives.

In sport, 35% of the England, Scotland and Wales rugby teams and 33% of the England cricket team also went to private schools.

David Cameron meeting officer cadets at Sandhurst - some 62% of senior armed forces officers were privately educated

In politics, half the House of Lords attended independent schools, along with 36% of the cabinet, 33% of MPs and 22% of the shadow cabinet.

This compares with 7% of the UK population as a whole.

Figures for top people who went to Oxford and Cambridge paint a similar picture.

Some 75% of senior judges, 59% of the Cabinet, 57% of permanent secretaries, 50% of diplomats, 47% of newspaper columnists, 38% of the House of Lords, 33% of the shadow cabinet and 24% of MPs hold Oxbridge degrees.

In contrast, less than 1% of the whole population are Oxbridge graduates while 62% did not attend university, says the study.

The report describes the figures as "elitism so stark that it could be called social engineering".

The authors recognise that many talented people attend independent schools and top universities, with 32% of those with AAA or better in last year's A-level results attending private schools.

National effort

However, they ask whether top jobs are about what you know or who you know and whether some talent is being locked out.

The report calls for a national effort to "break open" Britain's elite, with:

• employers publishing data on the social background of staff
• university-blind job applications and non-graduate entry routes
• the government tackling unpaid internships that disadvantage those too poor to work for nothing
• senior public sector jobs being opened up to a wider range of people.

Sir Anthony Seldon, the master of Wellington College in Berkshire, says every independent school should start an academy - something his school has overseen.

He said: "We need to be more radical than [Alan Milburn] is currently proposing.

"If we look more at those state schools that are doing very well, they are very heavily dominated by the middle classes.

"They are the grammar schools, they are the academies and comprehensives in strongly middle class areas.

Continue reading the main story “Start Quote

We know there is more to be done. But we are part of the solution, not the root of the problem”

Richard HarmanHeadmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference

"I think to be obsessed, as Alan is by private schools, is just a little bit out of date."

Mr Harman said the key to improving social mobility was to allow more young people to access independent schools through bursaries and scholarships.

He said their strength was in developing pupils' talents, creativity, character and individuality, as well as achieving high academic results.

"We are part of the solution not the root of the problem."

'Major rethink'

The Sutton Trust, which campaigns for greater social mobility through education, welcomed the recommendations.

"It is clear more needs to be done at government level to address the issue," said policy director Lee Elliot Major.

Prof Steve West, chairman of the University Alliance group of business and technology-focused universities, urged a "major rethink of what success looks like in the 21st Century".

"There is a massive breadth of routes to success and huge diversity of opportunity in the global, technology-rich graduate employment market."

A spokeswoman for Oxford University said the institution devoted "a huge amount of resource to widening access and student support" but added that diversifying intake would require wider action.

"Social mobility is an issue stretching back to birth and beyond and early inequality of attainment is one of the major barriers to progression."

[Guest MattP]

Looking at Rotherham council and the voting patterns seats their are surely a huge target for UKIP?

Surely even Northerners won't still vote for Labour after finding out they turned a blind eye to their children being gang raped?

[Webbo]

as a fox who hates the tories and UKIP I give full marks to Carswell for doing the honourable thing and resigneing to force a by-election. There have been too many cases of MPs elected for one party then joining the other without their constituents being given a say in the matter

I agree.

[Rincewind]

me too

[Guest MattP]

Lord Ashcroft polling given UKIP a lead now in Clacton with him as the candidate.

 

Current Paddy Power Odds:

 

UKIP 1/4

Conservative 3/1

Labour 33/1

100 Bar

 

Looks like we'll be getting our first UKIP MP  afew months before a few of us expected.

[Rincewind]

This MP seems decent. Some will not agree because she is Labour but she is actually going out and listening to people. In pubs of all places.  And it seems she likes real ale which earns a plus one from me.

 

 

 

http://labourlist.org/2014/08/we-need-to-crack-westminster-open-thats-why-i-spent-so-much-of-my-summer-in-the-pub/

[l444ry]

I'm not sure an electoral pact would work for UKIP, it would just play into Labour's hands. They could portray them as Tories in disguise.

 

As for 3.5 years of Labour, nothing but economic incompetence and class warfare, you're braver than me.

As opposed to the last 3.5 years of the Tories, nothing but incompetence and class warfare....... 

[Webbo]

As opposed to the last 3.5 years of the Tories, nothing but incompetence and class warfare....... 

There's only ever 1 party that brings class into anything and as for incompetence, you keep telling yourself that.

[Darkon84]

This MP seems decent. Some will not agree because she is Labour but she is actually going out and listening to people. In pubs of all places.  And it seems she likes real ale which earns a plus one from me.

 

 

 

http://labourlist.org/2014/08/we-need-to-crack-westminster-open-thats-why-i-spent-so-much-of-my-summer-in-the-pub/

 

 

Standard tactic. Do you like DC now? Or perhaps Farage?

 

 

[Alf Bentley]

This MP seems decent. Some will not agree because she is Labour but she is actually going out and listening to people. In pubs of all places.  And it seems she likes real ale which earns a plus one from me.

 

http://labourlist.org/2014/08/we-need-to-crack-westminster-open-thats-why-i-spent-so-much-of-my-summer-in-the-pub/

 

Decent idea, however....maybe I'm cynical, but I'd be more impressed if she'd started doing this 4 years ago, rather than 9 months before a general election and with a majority of just 531. 

 

Back in my misspent youth in the 1980s Labour Party, we started going door to door regularly away from election times to see if people had any issues to raise. We got a good response: "we don't just see you lot at election time" etc.

 

 

There's only ever 1 party that brings class into anything and as for incompetence, you keep telling yourself that.

 

Both main parties engage in class politics (among other things) - and rightly so, as they each represent a class (among others). It's just that one of them pretends that it isn't representing a class. It claims that "we're all in this together". Do remind me, how is that "Big Society" initiative doing? 

[Rincewind]

Decent idea, however....maybe I'm cynical, but I'd be more impressed if she'd started doing this 4 years ago, rather than 9 months before a general election and with a majority of just 531. 

 

Back in my misspent youth in the 1980s Labour Party, we started going door to door regularly away from election times to see if people had any issues to raise. We got a good response: "we don't just see you lot at election time" etc.

 

 

 

Both main parties engage in class politics (among other things) - and rightly so, as they each represent a class (among others). It's just that one of them pretends that it isn't representing a class. It claims that "we're all in this together". Do remind me, how is that "Big Society" initiative doing? 

I may be wrong but dont think its just for the election. It's something she does regularly. The link was to a Labour paper I got from elsewhere so someone else searched for it. The difference with her and David Cameron picture is that he just posed with a glass in his hand then maybe exchanged it for a gin and tonic later Farage is a little better and has the glass to his lips which is actually a jug. I am very impressed with that and she sat down with the plebs and talked (wo)man to man about what concerned them.

If she was a Tory I would say good on her.

She does say she spent most of the summer in the pub although which country is not clear.

[Alf Bentley]

I may be wrong but dont think its just for the election. It's something she does regularly. The link was to a Labour paper I got from elsewhere so someone else searched for it. The difference with her and David Cameron picture is that he just posed with a glass in his hand then maybe exchanged it for a gin and tonic later Farage is a little better and has the glass to his lips which is actually a jug. I am very impressed with that and she sat down with the plebs and talked (wo)man to man about what concerned them.

If she was a Tory I would say good on her.

 

Fair enough. I just went back and read the article. It doesn't mention anything about her meeting people in pubs previously, but she does claim to have been going to see constituents door to door since 2010 - and her comments about the difficulty of talking to people properly at surgeries (limited time) and door to door (busy lives) are fair comment.

 

It's hard to avoid being over-cynical about politicians (of all parties) as cynicism is well-justified with so many of them.

[Webbo]

 

 

 

 

Both main parties engage in class politics (among other things) - and rightly so, as they each represent a class (among others). It's just that one of them pretends that it isn't representing a class. It claims that "we're all in this together". Do remind me, how is that "Big Society" initiative doing? 

Sorry, I disagree. The Tories don't attack the poor at all.