SMX11 Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 I can see this happening to many back benchers who are at odds with their leadership. Not enough people about with the guts to change parties if they don't agree with what they are doing.
Alf Bentley Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 Be interesting to see how the bye election goes. If Carswell loses that would be a massive blow to Ukip, if he wins it will give them momentum. Hadn't realised that he was planning to force a byelection. He's MP for Clacton....Tory-voting seaside town in Essex, near to Harwich port, large retired population plus farming country....sounds like the sort of place that UKIP would expect to get a decent vote, anyway. Throw in the fact that Carswell is the incumbent, then unless the locals loath him as a lazy git, then I assume that he'd at least get close to winning.....so I think this is a win-win for UKIP, I'm afraid, keeping them in the headlines.
lavrentis Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 Never understand anyone who votes for a party just to try and keep another party out. You vote for the party you agree with the most, under every circumstance. What happens then happens.
lavrentis Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 Plus "voting for UKIP will help labour" is false and spouted by the tory fanboys
MooseBreath Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 Maybe they've brought him in to help write their 2nd policy.
Vacamion Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 Plus "voting for UKIP will help labour" is false and spouted by the tory fanboys "Tory Fanboys" ??? Sounds like something a stoooodent from about 1994 would say. Contrary to your assertion, it appears to me (and many others) that UKIPs right-leaning policies will attract more Conservative voters than Labour voters. How will this not split the right wing vote in some seats and help Labour?
lavrentis Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 "Tory Fanboys" ??? Sounds like something a stoooodent from about 1994 would say. Contrary to your assertion, it appears to me (and many others) that UKIPs right-leaning policies will attract more Conservative voters than Labour voters. How will this not split the right wing vote in some seats and help Labour? I am as far as a Labour student as you will ever get. UKIP are taking votes from all parties, thats why they have done well in the north and the east
Voll Blau Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 Never understand anyone who votes for a party just to try and keep another party out. You vote for the party you agree with the most, under every circumstance. What happens then happens. Full agree. Nothing makes me despair more than New Labour resorting to the tired "keep out the Tories" line. Maybe they should be looking at why mobilising their own vote is such a problem rather than scaremongering.
Webbo Posted 28 August 2014 Author Posted 28 August 2014 As a tory fanboy it seems to me if you want less EU the last thing you'd want would be a Labour govt. If UKIP win 10 seats in the next election they'll have surpassed their own wildest dreams. The choice is Tory or Labour.
Jon the Hat Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 Plus "voting for UKIP will help labour" is false and spouted by the tory fanboys Tell us that again when we have a Labour majority becuase UKIP split the Tory vote.
leicsmac Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 Never understand anyone who votes for a party just to try and keep another party out. You vote for the party you agree with the most, under every circumstance. What happens then happens. With a voting system where every vote was critical I'd agree with you. Sadly we live in a country where the system means that only around a sixth of the populations vote actually has any bearing on who gets in power this time round. The rest are utterly entrenched seats where if you have a view that is opposite to the vast majority, you're hosed. Really, really want a hung Parliament next time round that lasts months just to highlight how ridiculous it is.
Webbo Posted 28 August 2014 Author Posted 28 August 2014 With a voting system where every vote was critical I'd agree with you. Sadly we live in a country where the system means that only around a sixth of the populations vote actually has any bearing on who gets in power this time round. The rest are utterly entrenched seats where if you have a view that is opposite to the vast majority, you're hosed. Really, really want a hung Parliament next time round that lasts months just to highlight how ridiculous it is. If we had PR every parliament would be hung.
lavrentis Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 Tell us that again when we have a Labour majority becuase UKIP split the Tory vote. There won't be a labour majority. Maybe if the people who voted tories who were scared that labour might get into power voted UKIP, UKIp might actually do well?
leicsmac Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 If we had PR every parliament would be hung. And if that is truly representative of the votes of all the people, so be it.
Webbo Posted 28 August 2014 Author Posted 28 August 2014 And if that is truly representative of the votes of all the people, so be it. Then everything is a compromise and the 3rd party is in govt forever with a disproportionate power over policy and which party leads. Some people like that and that's their right, but I'd rather have a govt that's allowed to make necessary but unpopular policies, where you know who responsible for any successes or failures.
leicsmac Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 Then everything is a compromise and the 3rd party is in govt forever with a disproportionate power over policy and which party leads. Some people like that and that's their right, but I'd rather have a govt that's allowed to make necessary but unpopular policies, where you know who responsible for any successes or failures. Fair enough. And I think right there you've struck one of the hearts of the competing political ideologies. One believes in compromise, the other doesn't. I think it also comes down to how much you trust those in power.
Jon the Hat Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 It seems the existing UKIP Candidate for Clacton has no intention of standing down for Dougie! Comedy gold!
Guest MattP Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 It seems the existing UKIP Candidate for Clacton has no intention of standing down for Dougie! Comedy gold! Standard stuff in UKIP, it goes to a vote of party members, Farage will still have to be selected by the members of the party in South Thanet.
Sir Fynwy Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 It seems the existing UKIP Candidate for Clacton has no intention of standing down for Dougie! Comedy gold!Maybe UKIP will split the UKIP vote
Guest MattP Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 There are only 2 parties who can win the election, 1 that wants to reduce Immigration but can't and 1 that sent out search parties when they were in power. There's 1 that wants to renogiate with the EU and give a referendum and 1 that wants more integration. A vote for UKIP will only put Labour in. The Tories will get what they deserve come election time. Looking at most council seats these days you could argue the Tories standing is keeping UKIP out, they had the chance to make an electoral pact which would have been perfect and they didn't, they now have to live with what will come of that. I'm starting to lose hope in them now, they clearly can't do anything about immigration (as will none whilst we remain in the EU) and I'm not remotly convinced Cameron wants too, he isn't a proper conservative, if Thatcher or Churchill were around to day they would be UKIP members. I'm actually starting to warm to the idea of Labour in anyway, some great things could come from it. Just get your money out the bank and into something valuable they can't steal from you if you have any for the short time they'll be in power. 1. Let's actually see what they can do when they can't buy votes and borrow ridiculous amounts of money to engorge in the public sector, this deficit has to be paid back, George might even be playing a cool game here by still borrowing these amounts so they can't. 2. The look on the Rincewinds etc of this World when the free beer money promised doesn't come rolling in would be priceless. 3. 5 Years of Ed and Ed could see off that lot for good for the rest of my lifetime, 2 years of Brown was bad enough, 5 of Ed and Ed could see another Tory government of the length of Thatcher/Major after. Never understand anyone who votes for a party just to try and keep another party out. You vote for the party you agree with the most, under every circumstance. What happens then happens. I agree, I actually find a bit pathetic when you hear people actually say they will vote for somebody else to keep someone else out of power. Full agree. Nothing makes me despair more than New Labour resorting to the tired "keep out the Tories" line. Maybe they should be looking at why mobilising their own vote is such a problem rather than scaremongering. This. When you have to start resorting to the 'vote us to keep (insert here) party out, I think you have almost lost the argument.
Webbo Posted 28 August 2014 Author Posted 28 August 2014 I'm not sure an electoral pact would work for UKIP, it would just play into Labour's hands. They could portray them as Tories in disguise. As for 3.5 years of Labour, nothing but economic incompetence and class warfare, you're braver than me.
Guest MattP Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 I'm not sure an electoral pact would work for UKIP, it would just play into Labour's hands. They could portray them as Tories in disguise. As for 3.5 years of Labour, nothing but economic incompetence and class warfare, you're braver than me. Probably the ignorance of youth mate.
Alf Bentley Posted 28 August 2014 Posted 28 August 2014 If Thatcher or Churchill were around to day they would be UKIP members. Didn't Churchill call for a "United States of Europe"? I'd be with him on that - proper federalism, devolving power to nation states and regions, except for powers that needed to be exercised centrally such as environmental action and wealth redistribution. I'm actually starting to warm to the idea of Labour in anyway, some great things could come from it. Just get your money out the bank and into something valuable they can't steal from you if you have any for the short time they'll be in power. 1. Let's actually see what they can do when they can't buy votes and borrow ridiculous amounts of money to engorge in the public sector, this deficit has to be paid back, George might even be playing a cool game here by still borrowing these amounts so they can't. 2. [...] 3. 5 Years of Ed and Ed could see off that lot for good for the rest of my lifetime, 2 years of Brown was bad enough, 5 of Ed and Ed could see another Tory government of the length of Thatcher/Major after. You might have a point here... Could be a good election to lose for either "big party" - and a good time for UKIP to avoid being tainted by real power (look what it's done for the Lib Dems!) The Scottish referendum could yet be a loose cannon, too...imagine if the Jocks vote "Yes" and Labour take power for 2 years thanks to their Scottish MPs, before having to call another election in 2017 because all the Scots have left and the Tories are suddenly the biggest party again!
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.