2015 Election season ..........stuff it in here.

[L1HT]

Few things:

 

1) - Why has the conversation changed to brits moving abroad?  The original question was about Thursdays debate 'Does the 300k growth of our population effect the housing crisis'  No mention of finance, no mention of if these people are cleaners or professors

 

2) The Doctor said The Invinsible is scare mongering, but it is actually an undeniable legal fact.  It is your OPINION that it is unlikely, but it is factually correct that anyone from the EU can come here, and therefore how can Bilo predict the number of houses needed

 

You'll notice I've never given an opinion of whether this is good/bad for britain or if I a pro/anti open movement of people, but this debate (Election 2015 and Foxestalk) lacks people agreeing with hard facts for some reason.

[L1HT]

I actually notice that the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors only agree with UKIP housing policy (I think UKIP nicked it from RICS because they're the experts)

[Vacamion]

Is anyone else going to vote tactically?

I voted Conservative last time. I have previously, on occasion, voted Lib Dem. Whilst I don't agree wholeheartedly with their offering, I think the Tories should carry on. I am particularly impressed by the leader of the Scottish Conservatives Ruth Davidson, who had a good referendum.

The Tories are polling 3rd in my constituency. The sitting MP was Labour's Scottish leader Jim Murphy. The Lib Dems are nowhere. The SNP are hopeful of snatching it from Labour and "decapitating" the party up here.

As I've pointed out elsewhere, support for Indy is steady at 40 something percent, which lost the referendum but will sweep the board under FPTP.

Latest polling suggests it is neck and neck between Labour and the SNP in this constituency and the difference could be made by Lib Dem and Tory voters tactically supporting Labour, to keep the SNP out.

I dislike the idea of Ed M as Prime Minister.

I dislike more the SNP, their likely effect on UK government and their ultimate goal.

I think I'm going to hold my nose and vote Labour.

Eurgh.

I hate the FPTP system. I think this election might kill it.

[Guest]

Bilo you say immigration has contribued to economic recovery....but that is totally irrelevant to my point.  When the population grows by 300,000 we need 150,00 houses, 100,000 school places NOW! Next year it could be 50,000, year after 700,000, no planning can take place.  In the leaders debate no one would say that apart from the Welsh in debate one.  How can it be denied

 

A house for every 2 people and 1 in three are kids. Your numbers are a little weird.

 

England's problem with housing is that every 17yo thinks they should have a house of their own.  

[Guest Bilo]

I'm still wondering what awards the blog has won, how it came to influence the national result of the 2010 election, how it has broken ground and by whom has it been praised.

[Webbo]

Is anyone else going to vote tactically?

I voted Conservative last time. I have previously, on occasion, voted Lib Dem. Whilst I don't agree wholeheartedly with their offering, I think the Tories should carry on. I am particularly impressed by the leader of the Scottish Conservatives Ruth Davidson, who had a good referendum.

The Tories are polling 3rd in my constituency. The sitting MP was Labour's Scottish leader Jim Murphy. The Lib Dems are nowhere. The SNP are hopeful of snatching it from Labour and "decapitating" the party up here.

As I've pointed out elsewhere, support for Indy is steady at 40 something percent, which lost the referendum but will sweep the board under FPTP.

Latest polling suggests it is neck and neck between Labour and the SNP in this constituency and the difference could be made by Lib Dem and Tory voters tactically supporting Labour, to keep the SNP out.

I dislike the idea of Ed M as Prime Minister.

I dislike more the SNP, their likely effect on UK government and their ultimate goal.

I think I'm going to hold my nose and vote Labour.

Eurgh.

I hate the FPTP system. I think this election might kill it.

thats a hard decision, I'd hate to vote labour but the snp are worse. Jim Murphy is one of the better labour MPs.

[MooseBreath]

What has Brits abroad got to do with this debate? If anything it strengthens the argument for control across Europe if it is harming our relationship with our European mates. Nobody is suggesting we send all immigrants home, just that we have a policy that stop people coming here that offer nothing and a total cap to match our improvements in public services and housing.

I'm not sure you have to be right wing to believe in a fair immigration policy, this is not about colour or creed anymore. The freedom of movement act, whilst a wonderful idea, is not fit for purpose across Europe and needs abolishing.

Considering immigrants bring cheap, disposable labour with great benefits to big business, while simultaneously clogging up services in predominantly poor areas, causing further hardship to people already at a disadvantage, it's amazing that the issue sits where it does on the left/right paradigm. I think it must be a hangover from the old "if you say anything bad about immigration you're a racist" days, if they ever went away.

[Strokes]

Considering immigrants bring cheap, disposable labour with great benefits to big business, while simultaneously clogging up services in predominantly poor areas, causing further hardship to people already at a disadvantage, it's amazing that the issue sits where it does on the left/right paradigm. I think it must be a hangover from the old "if you say anything bad about immigration you're a racist" days, if they ever went away.

I'm amazed at the the left stance on the EU to be frank, it goes against such a lot of socialist beliefs it's a very peculiar stance. Big businesses sharing wealth and pooling together, making the rich richer and.........

[Guest Bilo]

You can plug your blog as much as you like - I suppose it's one way of getting people to read the thing.

 

However, none of those questions are answered within.

 

1) What awards did it win?

2) How did it come to influence the national result of the 2010 election?

3) How is it groundbreaking?

4) Who has praised it?

 

Four straight questions that call for four straight answers.

 

Can you answer them without directing people to the blog?

[Rincewind]

After the opening paragraph it gets no rewards from me. With the language alone it is obviously biased and gives a one sided view. It is derogatory towards anyone who is left of centre and panders to the right. It is no better than blogs that are biased to the left.Which no doubt you would condemn for that very reason.

It is insulting to anyone who believes in a fair society to be called a 'leftie' in that manner and you are only preaching to the converted.

[MooseBreath]

A house for every 2 people and 1 in three are kids. Your numbers are a little weird.

England's problem with housing is that every 17yo thinks they should have a house of their own.

It's not just about building houses for new immigrant households one for one, but also about replacing existing stock so the poor, particularly, don't have to put up with sub-standard accommodation and also providing enough supply to prevent the house price to earnings ratio getting too out of control.

I don't think the dream of home ownership is unique to Britain, and certainly to put the blame on 17-year-olds when the average age of moving out of the parent's home is pushing up to 30 is a bit unrealistic. But I gather that home ownership is not such a big deal in some other countries. The trouble in Britain is that with house prices increasing above inflation over decades it makes obvious financial sense to buy, and until something is done (whether increasing supply or reducing demand) this will always be the case and so house prices will keep rising.

It's a fantastic model for existing home owners, landlords and house builders. Not so good for everyone else.

[sphericalfox]

Considering immigrants bring cheap, disposable labour with great benefits to big business, while simultaneously clogging up services in predominantly poor areas, causing further hardship to people already at a disadvantage, it's amazing that the issue sits where it does on the left/right paradigm. I think it must be a hangover from the old "if you say anything bad about immigration you're a racist" days, if they ever went away.

 

There is no evidence that immigrants 'clog up services'. They in fact are less likely to use social services than the resident population.

[Rincewind]

It's not just about building houses for new immigrant households one for one, but also about replacing existing stock so the poor, particularly, don't have to put up with sub-standard accommodation and also providing enough supply to prevent the house price to earnings ratio getting too out of control.

I don't think the dream of home ownership is unique to Britain, and certainly to put the blame on 17-year-olds when the average age of moving out of the parent's home is pushing up to 30 is a bit unrealistic. But I gather that home ownership is not such a big deal in some other countries. The trouble in Britain is that with house prices increasing above inflation over decades it makes obvious financial sense to buy, and until something is done (whether increasing supply or reducing demand) this will always be the case and so house prices will keep rising.

It's a fantastic model for existing home owners, landlords and house builders. Not so good for everyone else.

I actually agree with a lot of this. Has someone taken over your account?

[Guest Bilo]

There is no evidence that immigrants 'clog up services'. They in fact are less likely to use social services than the resident population.

 

Less likely to use the NHS too as the majority of immigrants are fit, healthy and of working age.

[Guest Bilo]

It's not just about building houses for new immigrant households one for one, but also about replacing existing stock so the poor, particularly, don't have to put up with sub-standard accommodation and also providing enough supply to prevent the house price to earnings ratio getting too out of control.

I don't think the dream of home ownership is unique to Britain, and certainly to put the blame on 17-year-olds when the average age of moving out of the parent's home is pushing up to 30 is a bit unrealistic. But I gather that home ownership is not such a big deal in some other countries. The trouble in Britain is that with house prices increasing above inflation over decades it makes obvious financial sense to buy, and until something is done (whether increasing supply or reducing demand) this will always be the case and so house prices will keep rising.

It's a fantastic model for existing home owners, landlords and house builders. Not so good for everyone else.

 

A good post, that.

 

The supply crisis can be combated by supplying more homes. Home ownership is great but selling off too many homes lets the landlords in and gives them the opportunity to name their own rents, we need to ringfence existing social housing and build more of it. That will ensure affordable housing for the less affluent and help to bring down rents in the private sector.

 

One good thing was the Help to Buy scheme that was helped with government loans and low deposits, it's a sound way of getting first time buyers on the property ladder, but needs to be properly vetted to ensure that it isn't being taken advantage of.

[Rincewind]

You are far too late to be concerned about boring us, you managed to do that a long time ago.

How about answering Bilo's questions?

I was going put a reply but it asks for my name and email address. I do not want to receive a load of spam mail. There are 3 replies praising it who had most likely made their mind up before reading it.

[Guest Bilo]

Interesting you mention Left Food Forward - this from their about page.

 

When you can make all those claims and provide evidence for them, your blog may actually be taken seriously!

 

Left Foot Forward is a political blog for progressives. We provide evidence-based analysis on British politics, policy, and current affairs.

Left Foot Forward is Britain’s No.1 left-wing blog and Will Straw was named one of the “best political pundits on the web” by theObserver. We have been cited in The Economist, Financial Times, Guardian, Times, and Spectator among many other print and online publications.

We have been described as:

• “an increasingly influential left-leaning blog” – Financial Times

• “The place to start the hunt for intelligent views and news about the centre left” – Observer

• “an intelligent blog” – Conservative Home

• “undoubtedly an influential and serious operation” – Independent on Sunday

Without your generous support, we cannot do the work that we do. Please consider donating. Thank you.

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We are a non-aligned blog. Because we are progressive and because of the aims we’re committed to, we often find ourselves in agreement with left of centre policies and politicians. But we are focused purely on the quality of policies and furthering progressive goals, rather than on promoting individual politicians and parties.

Left Foot Forward’s sister sites are Think Progress in the US and Chifley in Australia, and we have therefore adopted their approach to blogging by setting out our beliefs and categorising our stories accordingly.

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Left Foot Forward is edited by James Bloodworth. Our editorial policy is set by the editor and contributors of Left Foot Forward alone, and no one else.

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[MooseBreath]

There is no evidence that immigrants 'clog up services'. They in fact are less likely to use social services than the resident population.

If 10 resident households use 5 social services while 10 immigrant households use only 3 social services that makes immigrants less likely to use services than residents, but you've still got to provide for the additional 3 services. The only way that argument works is if the immigrants are replacing the residents, which they're not.

I'm thinking of education particularly. When immigrants bring their kids over, which they do, those kids need school places. That's undeniable.

Unless you believe that the economic benefits of immigration translate quickly and cleanly into more money and capacity being made available to cope with the additional demand for services, which I expect would be a leap of faith for anyone to make, then you're left with the undeniable fact that some areas, particularly poor areas, will be left to deal with a greater demand for services without any additional resources with which to deal with it.

[sphericalfox]

If 10 resident households use 5 social services while 10 immigrant households use only 3 social services that makes immigrants less likely to use services than residents, but you've still got to provide for the additional 3 services. The only way that argument works is if the immigrants are replacing the residents, which they're not.

I'm thinking of education particularly. When immigrants bring their kids over, which they do, those kids need school places. That's undeniable.

Unless you believe that the economic benefits of immigration translate quickly and cleanly into more money and capacity being made available to cope with the additional demand for services, which I expect would be a leap of faith for anyone to make, then you're left with the undeniable fact that some areas, particularly poor areas, will be left to deal with a greater demand for services without any additional resources with which to deal with it.

 

Where is your evidence that they are CLOGGING UP our services?

[Strokes]

Where is your evidence that they are CLOGGING UP our services?

Where is your evidence that they are in fact less likely to use social services?

[Dr The Singh]

Where is your evidence that they are CLOGGING UP our services?

Come on, greater the population of a nation, the greater the drain in services. There is already a strain on medical services, limited school place availability. Its just logical in it? The Mrs works for children's services at the Qmc, the demographics of the patients have changed which is a direct correlation with numbers.

[Guest Bilo]

Where is your evidence that they are in fact less likely to use social services?

 

It's something that has been reported for many years in many different places. 

 

Here it is from the horse's mouth.

 

Research which explores migrants‟ use of social care and social services notes their low levels of take-up (Kofman et al., 2009; Khan and Flak, 2010; Orchard et al., 2007). Reasons for low take up of services and low levels of awareness of social care services are explored in a small number of studies. Research in Scotland which included a survey of 90 migrants and two focus groups, found that very few had used any social work services and were not aware of the services which they could access (Khan and Flak, 2010). Other research, on A8 migrants in Edinburgh, found that very few had accessed care and social services, with the exception of welfare services for children, accessed by only a small minority (Orchard et al., 2007).

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/257236/impact-of-migration.pdf

[Guest]

It's not just about building houses for new immigrant households one for one, but also about replacing existing stock so the poor, particularly, don't have to put up with sub-standard accommodation and also providing enough supply to prevent the house price to earnings ratio getting too out of control.

I don't think the dream of home ownership is unique to Britain, and certainly to put the blame on 17-year-olds when the average age of moving out of the parent's home is pushing up to 30 is a bit unrealistic. But I gather that home ownership is not such a big deal in some other countries. The trouble in Britain is that with house prices increasing above inflation over decades it makes obvious financial sense to buy, and until something is done (whether increasing supply or reducing demand) this will always be the case and so house prices will keep rising.

It's a fantastic model for existing home owners, landlords and house builders. Not so good for everyone else.

Young British feel they have an entitlement to a house when in fact they are not even entitled to a rented property.

 

Get a job, earn some money and put yourself in a position to buy a house without having to worry about an increase in interest rates. If you can't do that then stay at home and live with parents and grandparents.

 

On top of that don't have children until you can afford them and have time for them.

 

Same can be said for cars/tvs/Iphones and all the other consumer goods that are sought after without being affordable in the situation you find yourself.

[MooseBreath]

Where is your evidence that they are CLOGGING UP our services?

I was hoping you'd concede that an increase in numbers leading to an increase in demand for services, at whatever rate, is basic logic. But if you need to hear it from someone else then here you go, I could have picked any of perhaps ten thousand similar and more in depth articles over the last decade but this one is recent and from a left-leaning source.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-32333911

[Guest Bilo]

A lot to be said for that in honesty, FIF.

 

I didn't leave home until my mid twenties, but I managed to buy my own home and have never looked back.