Bettsj2 Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 There isnt a fear to talk about it as everybody does talk about it. Any time any incident happens around the world involving islamic fundamentalists, half of QT is taken up talking about it, leaders of the muslim community have to defend themselves, those who lean to the right say its a massive problem and those that lean to the left say the opposite. My view is its an issue. Grooming gangs, terrorism, radicalisation, all problems that need attention but I think we're all looking for solutions in the wrong place. How many times do we hear from these radical groups citing foreign policy as the reason for brutal murders and attacks, only for Politicians to say 'we dont know the reasons why'? Yes you do. They've told you. On camera, Rigby's killer said, 'women and children are murdered in our lands every day'. Try acknowledging this first rather than asking the Muslim community leaders to keep an eye on everyone and we may get somewhere. The grooming gangs are an issue but this sort of thing has happened throughout time and isnt an islamic issue, it just happens to be the religion of the gangs doing it at the minute. Lets ignore the social problems in poverty ridden communities that have scores of young girls hanging around outside at all hours with no common sense to recognise they're being taken advantage of. Its just the scary muslims yeah? You'll hear 'Mohammed was a pedophile. It says so in the Quran'. What a stupid point. Throughout history, men had child brides in all religions. Its only in recent history this has changed. To summarise my view, there are issues but by focusing on islam and the muslim community, you're ignoring the causes so delaying a solution. Islam is no more the cause for any of this than christianity was for the crusades.
MooseBreath Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 Here's another article and it mentions the pressure on the schools in Peterborough. I suspect the Tory leader, Marco Cereste, must be on the phone day and night to DC telling him to stop these immigrants putting a strain on his locality and his bank balance. I suspect his wallet doesn't fit anymore in his trouser pocket ffs! Not sure what your point is here or in your previous post. Still waiting for your evidence that additional immigrants don't require additional services.
sphericalfox Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 Not sure what your point is here or in your previous post. Still waiting for your evidence that additional immigrants don't require additional services. I gave you the report which indicated VERY specifically that immigrants DO NOT CLOG up the services. You can aim to be pedantic, but the report clearly states that your turn-of-phrase is very inaccurate.
MooseBreath Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 I gave you the report which indicated VERY specifically that immigrants DO NOT CLOG up the services. You can aim to be pedantic, but the report clearly states that your turn-of-phrase is very inaccurate. It didn't say that at all. At most it said immigrants use services less than residents, which I don't deny. You can be pedantic over the definition of 'to clog up' but the fact is that additional immigrants requiring additional services requires additional service capacity to be provided and in some cases, such as the one I linked to, this is causing problems.
sphericalfox Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 It didn't say that at all. At most it said immigrants use services less than residents, which I don't deny. You can be pedantic over the definition of 'to clog up' but the fact is that additional immigrants requiring additional services requires additional service capacity to be provided and in some cases, such as the one I linked to, this is causing problems. I gave you an additional article which states quite clearly that the educational system in Peterborough, which undeniably has additional pressure on it from migrants' children is actually got a rise in improvement in results. Does that seem to you like a system that's failing?
MooseBreath Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 I gave you an additional article which states quite clearly that the educational system in Peterborough, which undeniably has additional pressure on it from migrants' children is actually got a rise in improvement in results. Does that seem to you like a system that's failing? Results aren't the issue, capacity is the issue.
sphericalfox Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 Results aren't the issue, capacity is the issue. Yeah results aren't important at all. There are plenty of localities were capacity is an issue to services, and it has **** all to do with immigration. There are NHS Trusts falling down due to oversubscription, there are councils all across the country in serious debt, but it has **** all to do with immigration. Yes the results might even be better if capacity was lowered, but if the system is managing through system reform, efficient management and lean programme restructure, then surely that's a good thing, and should be an example set for others?
sphericalfox Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 Considering immigrants bring cheap, disposable labour with great benefits to big business, while simultaneously clogging up services in predominantly poor areas, causing further hardship to people already at a disadvantage, it's amazing that the issue sits where it does on the left/right paradigm. I think it must be a hangover from the old "if you say anything bad about immigration you're a racist" days, if they ever went away. Here's the quote where you've specified that services are 'clogged-up' by immigrants. You then went on to use Peterborough as an example of an education system being 'clogged up'. I've given you an official report that very specifically advised that immigrants DO NOT put an additional strain on social systems, and DO NOT clog up the NHS. I also indicated that specifically in Peterborough that the educational results are actually getting better NOT worse, therefore either the educated immigrant children are a clever lot and are actually improving the schools reputations with their hard work and graft, or simply the system actually is coping and thriving regardless of the extra demand. Given that the local Tory leader of the council is personally benefitting from the migration, one might guess with even basic logic that he is encouraging and happy with the current circumstances within his locality, and has been interviewed saying so, that he and his colleagues DO NOT feel these migrants are clogging up their local amenities and public services. You on the otherhand have posted one article from the BBC, and i'm sure you could find numerous others easily from the Tory propaganda papers with one simple google click, however, you've failed to actually come up with any proven statistics that services, yes that's PLURAL are under threat from the pressure of these migrants either nationally, or even in the example that you gave yourself. Give up Moosey, it's because that evidence DOESN'T EXIST.
Captain... Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 We have an economy based on growth without immigration how are we going to continue to grow? The burden on public services is another misnomer, unless you feel every single person in this country is a burden, in which case the issue isn't immigration it is the mismanagement of public services and revenue generation for public services. The average contribution to the public purse should outweigh the average cost per person to. It has been proven time and again that immigrants contribute more and take less than the average Brit, there is an issue with money being sent to other countries, with unscrupulous employers paying an illegal wage, along with a "housing shortage" and there are cultural issues with immigration but I and many others believe it has had a positive impact on this country. As for the Muslim issue, it is ridiculous that any authority would ever consider religious sensitivity when it comes to investigating child abuse, regardless of the social factors behind it any reports of child abuse, irrelevant to religious groups or celebrity status, must be investigated fully and quickly, we must not let religion come into ruling/policing this country and we must not demonise innocent people in this country for their beliefs it really isn't that difficult.
city187 Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 Some of u in here **** me especially bilo rince and mouse. Unless your name is Google stop thinking your always correct and know everything there is to know. W*nkers. Pretty sure that they would sit in a room filled with there own farts inhaling and sayin me me me meeeeeee. Especially rince.
Rincewind Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 Some of u in here **** me especially bilo rince and mouse. Unless your name is Google stop thinking your always correct and know everything there is to know. W*nkers. Pretty sure that they would sit in a room filled with there own farts inhaling and sayin me me me meeeeeee. Especially rince. I do not think I am always right. As for me me me, that is something attributed to people that are out of touch with those worse off than themselves. Compassion seems to be lost on many in government.
Guest Bilo Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 I don't think I'm always right either. I'm right most of the time, but not always.
Rincewind Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 I was going to post a link to another section to this site (Tory Labour coalition) but I think this one will interest the more savvy than me on economics. I have read it but do not feel qualified tor understand enough to give a knowledgeable comment on it. Over to you Moose, Alf Matt etc. http://viridislumen.blogspot.co.uk/p/cutting-deficits-necessity-or-choice.html
MooseBreath Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 I was going to post a link to another section to this site (Tory Labour coalition) but I think this one will interest the more savvy than me on economics. I have read it but do not feel qualified tor understand enough to give a knowledgeable comment on it. Over to you Moose, Alf Matt etc. http://viridislumen.blogspot.co.uk/p/cutting-deficits-necessity-or-choice.html Interesting article. Appears to have been written at some point in early 2010 and makes some predictions for the years ahead including double dip recessions, a depression and mass unemployment, as well as hinting that the country may become overrun with shanty towns akin to 1980s Chile. Must have been worrying for anyone who believed any of that at the time, and how relieved they must now feel that none of those predictions became even a remote reality.
Strokes Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 I am always right, if I'm wrong, it was deliberate.
MooseBreath Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 Some of u in here **** me especially bilo rince and mouse. Unless your name is Google stop thinking your always correct and know everything there is to know. W*nkers. Pretty sure that they would sit in a room filled with there own farts inhaling and sayin me me me meeeeeee. Especially rince. If I had to guess I'd say ScouseFox
lavrentis Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 http://news.sky.com/election/constituency/367/leicester-west Just checking the last election results. BNP did relatively well in Leicester West
Danno Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/19/700-migrants-feared-dead-mediterranean-shipwreck-worst-yet And still we do nothing to help.
BlueSi13 Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/19/700-migrants-feared-dead-mediterranean-shipwreck-worst-yet And still we do nothing to help. Terrible tragedy but what do you propose?
Danno Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 Terrible tragedy but what do you propose?Restarting the rescue missions.
bovril Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 I'm surprised so many people are trying to leave Libya after NATO so benevolently liberated them in 2011.
city187 Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 I do not think I am always right. As for me me me, that is something attributed to people that are out of touch with those worse off than themselves. Compassion seems to be lost on many in government. The fact you responded says it all. Your on a football website talking like you think your ed miliband. Pretty easy to out debate people on a football website to all feel smug about yourself as the average fan probably isn't that interested in it. Go somewhere else with your know it all shite. Id imagine the majority of you knock doors for the party of your choice. Total ******.
Rincewind Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 The fact you responded says it all. Your on a football website talking like you think your ed miliband. Pretty easy to out debate people on a football website to all feel smug about yourself as the average fan probably isn't that interested in it. Go somewhere else with your know it all shite. Id imagine the majority of you knock doors for the party of your choice. Total ******.
BlueSi13 Posted 19 April 2015 Posted 19 April 2015 Restarting the rescue missions. Which essentially gave the whole of North Africa a free ticket to Europe. This would increase the number of boats trying to get to Europe (with the belief that would be rescued and taken ashore if they got into trouble) and would increase the risk of serious casualties.
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