One night in Leicester, one punch from a lout - the life of a city family changed forever

[Bayfox]

so sad. and yet our justice systems dishes out such a shit sentence.

there is always a possibility it could be you next.

to be honest that's why I prefer a few drinks in my local now. to a bender in town. as soon as I had my kids I wanted to make sure I come home.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Bloody heartbreaking! That poor lad and his family have had their lives destroyed by that evil piece of filth. Six months!  Sentencing is a sick travesty of justice.in this country. It makes me fume to see evil people getting away, almost scot free.

 

My thoughts truly go out to the poor victim, and his family, who are also victims with their own right.

[Goddard]

It is very sad. I never knew him but had seen him at cromwell tools a few times and do remember his face.

[FoxesAreBlue]

Awful, awful story that, how can a cvnt like that show no remorse I don't know.

[VLC86]

Really sad story and while not related to football violence it makes my blood boil that some tools still think it's a good idea to 'get stuck in' at football matches.

[Freesolo]

Stories like this fill me with rage, Poor lad just starting his life has it completely cut short but some mindless **** for no reason. If this was my brother i don't know how i could handle it knowing that this scumbag will be walking the streets again, i would honestly take it into my own hands and not feel the slightest bit of remorse over it

[Bettsj2]

Terrible stuff.

Never understood why if you admit you're guilty early you get credit?

'You dont have to prove i'm a scumbag, I admit it!'

'Well done sir. Well done'

How does that make sense?

Reading this i'm so glad I dont live in Beaumont Leys anymore. Always been full of absolute scum. I remember getting 'taxed' in one of the underpasses on my way home from Tesco. What did they take off me? 4 pinter of milk. Just absolute scum. The worst thing about it is, these sorts of idiots ACTUALLY like being this way. They like the area they live to be dangerous, they want to be in trouble with Police and they want to go to town and hurt someone.

Makes me sick.

[Buzzell]

Shocking story.

[Marmite]

I agree he should of been given life because he has completely ruined the young mans life and his familys.  It worries me I have 3 lads aged 11, 7 & 6 and I know its only 7 years till my lad can go out drinking but there are so many idiots in town that just go around starting fights.  

[Mark_w]

Six months for that is an absolute disgrace. His life is 90% destroyed, the perpetrator should have been sentenced to 90% of a murder charge.

 

I'm incredibly uneasy with that and suggestions that he should be given anything near to life imprisonment.

 

If they can prove to a jury it was unprovoked, then I think six months is very lenient. If they can prove that it was more than one punch (looks like it, but it seems they couldn't prove it) then absolutely they should look at a significantly lengthy sentence.

 

I've never hit anyone and I'd never do so unless I was doing so in self defense. To attack someone unprovoked is absolutely disgusting and I don't think six months is enough for it. But speaking as a 19 year old educated at a public school in Leicester, I naively wasn't really aware prior to reading this that one punch could do that amount of damage to a healthy adult male other than in freak cases. Now that may be because I hadn't been educated properly about it, but as the guilty party here appears to have similar circumstances (in terms of age/education), I think it'd be quite difficult to prove that he new the full extent of the damage his action could cause. Taking that into account, no matter how horrible this kid clearly is, it feels very harsh to me to take his life away because of one punch. I'm aware that that's potentially what has happened to the victim of this, it's a tragic situation and I do feel an awful lot of sympathy for him and his family, hopefully his recovery will continue and things can improve for him. And I can understand why they would want him to receive a punishment that is close to life.

 

But I don't think that we should be punishing a 19 year old by basically taking away his life, for one mistake, unless you can prove that he was aware of the potential consequences.

 

 

So tragic and needless. Some people are actually evil. No way the idiot responsble can be rehabilitated after six months, too. Baffling.

 

He's not gone out and stabbed or shot someone. I imagine this is the kind of case where there's actually a pretty decent chance of rehabilitation. As I say, I think there's a chance that he simply had no idea how much damage he could cause, and maybe this incident itself will be enough to make him realise that he needs to change. I'm speculating, but that's possible. And maybe if that is the case, he could be rehabilitated.

 

 

He got the same sentence as the person who stole a bottle of water during the london riots......amazing.

 

To be fair that sentence is an absolute joke, I don't think it's fair to compare it to any genuine crime.

 

 

Awful, awful story that, how can a cvnt like that show no remorse I don't know.

 

Who says he hasn't? The defence says he felt guilty, the family said he showed them no sign of remorse. But again, he could potentially have just been too ashamed to look them in the eyes knowing the pain he'd caused.

 

Equally, he could still be the horrible human being he was when he committed the crime. I don't want to appear to be defending him (I'm sort of defending the sentence - without knowing the full facts of the case), because he was clearly a vile 19 year old. But we are just getting one side of the story here, and maybe we shouldn't be so quick to call for a 19 year old to face life in prison without hearing the other side and coming to a conclusion based on that, like the jury and judge did.

[Aus Fox]

I'm incredibly uneasy with that and suggestions that he should be given anything near to life imprisonment.

If they can prove to a jury it was unprovoked, then I think six months is very lenient. If they can prove that it was more than one punch (looks like it, but it seems they couldn't prove it) then absolutely they should look at a significantly lengthy sentence.

I've never hit anyone and I'd never do so unless I was doing so in self defense. To attack someone unprovoked is absolutely disgusting and I don't think six months is enough for it. But speaking as a 19 year old educated at a public school in Leicester, I naively wasn't really aware prior to reading this that one punch could do that amount of damage to a healthy adult male other than in freak cases. Now that may be because I hadn't been educated properly about it, but as the guilty party here appears to have similar circumstances (in terms of age/education), I think it'd be quite difficult to prove that he new the full extent of the damage his action could cause. Taking that into account, no matter how horrible this kid clearly is, it feels very harsh to me to take his life away because of one punch. I'm aware that that's potentially what has happened to the victim of this, it's a tragic situation and I do feel an awful lot of sympathy for him and his family, hopefully his recovery will continue and things can improve for him. And I can understand why they would want him to receive a punishment that is close to life.

But I don't think that we should be punishing a 19 year old by basically taking away his life, for one mistake, unless you can prove that he was aware of the potential consequences.

He's not gone out and stabbed or shot someone. I imagine this is the kind of case where there's actually a pretty decent chance of rehabilitation. As I say, I think there's a chance that he simply had no idea how much damage he could cause, and maybe this incident itself will be enough to make him realise that he needs to change. I'm speculating, but that's possible. And maybe if that is the case, he could be rehabilitated.

To be fair that sentence is an absolute joke, I don't think it's fair to compare it to any genuine crime.

Who says he hasn't? The defence says he felt guilty, the family said he showed them no sign of remorse. But again, he could potentially have just been too ashamed to look them in the eyes knowing the pain he'd caused.

Equally, he could still be the horrible human being he was when he committed the crime. I don't want to appear to be defending him (I'm sort of defending the sentence - without knowing the full facts of the case), because he was clearly a vile 19 year old. But we are just getting one side of the story here, and maybe we shouldn't be so quick to call for a 19 year old to face life in prison without hearing the other side and coming to a conclusion based on that, like the jury and judge did.

That's absolute bull shit, every word! And this is the problem, because he's young and didn't know let him get away with it.

He has ruined another humans life, and you can sit there and defend this sentence?

How would you feel if the victim was your brother, son, best friend?

This man has not just ruined the life of one man, but all of those close to him.

It's time scum like this were taken off the street completely and sentences were given which reflect the impact they have has on their victim.

[Mark_w]

That's absolute bull shit, every word! And this is the problem, because he's young and didn't know let him get away with it.

He has ruined another humans life, and you can sit there and defend this sentence?

How would you feel if the victim was your brother, son, best friend?

This man has not just ruined the life of one man, but all of those close to him.

It's time scum like this were taken off the street completely and sentences were given which reflect the impact they have has on their victim.

 

Personally I think people should be punished for their intentions rather than the result of their actions (to an extent), because I think that's a better way of assessing how much of a danger to society they are and the chances of rehabilitating them. Of course that's difficult to do. If he re-offends then I think by all means give him a significant sentence. If I was the victim of this of course I would want stricter punishment because of my emotional state, but I don't believe people with such a close connection to a case should have any influence on the outcome. Guilt needs to be judged by a jury, not by the victim, the Leicester Mercury or people on Foxes Talk who don't have all the facts.

 

Do you think Ben Flower should be given life imprisonment? Or do you think what he did is less of a crime, because the outcome was (luckily) different?

[fuchsntf]

I'm incredibly uneasy with that and suggestions that he should be given anything near to life imprisonment.

If they can prove to a jury it was unprovoked, then I think six months is very lenient. If they can prove that it was more than one punch (looks like it, but it seems they couldn't prove it) then absolutely they should look at a significantly lengthy sentence.

I've never hit anyone and I'd never do so unless I was doing so in self defense. To attack someone unprovoked is absolutely disgusting and I don't think six months is enough for it. But speaking as a 19 year old educated at a public school in Leicester, I naively wasn't really aware prior to reading this that one punch could do that amount of damage to a healthy adult male other than in freak cases. Now that may be because I hadn't been educated properly about it, but as the guilty party here appears to have similar circumstances (in terms of age/education), I think it'd be quite difficult to prove that he new the full extent of the damage his action could cause. Taking that into account, no matter how horrible this kid clearly is, it feels very harsh to me to take his life away because of one punch. I'm aware that that's potentially what has happened to the victim of this, it's a tragic situation and I do feel an awful lot of sympathy for him and his family, hopefully his recovery will continue and things can improve for him. And I can understand why they would want him to receive a punishment that is close to life.

But I don't think that we should be punishing a 19 year old by basically taking away his life, for one mistake, unless you can prove that he was aware of the potential consequences.

You see we do know the case, or ones like it,...it wasnt a brawl, it wasnt a clash of youth all being involved in a rumble, it wasnt

even an argument, that went too far.It was a group of yobs where this arrogant bully intended to harras and show his mates he

is the king of the streets, with some type of theft and use of fists was premeditated.

You get this type of low life in all walks of life, public and state schools, grammer, comprehensives, secondary.

I know , I originate from New Parks, been involved in rumbles, some so bloody useless everybody fell on the floor laughing,

some lads I knew were like that, but other even harder fairer lads put them in their place.It does seem the yobs have taken over

a large part of the cities streets.I am a teen from the 70s, the Friday and saturday night busses were s great craic for the banter,youth, teenies, older groups having a laugh, protect the drivers and conductors if some one tried it on, or went too far.

Rape, out of the question, even girls and women you didnt know, you kept you eye on.Walking home from the disco or late

party, that type of bully groups were outweighed by the hard goodguys.Local pub bullies a bit different, somebody could find

themselves the wrong side of a scuff wanting to prove their hardness, or how macho they are.Today so much theft, sheer- spitefullness

He's not gone out and stabbed or shot someone. I imagine this is the kind of case where there's actually a pretty decent chance of rehabilitation. As I say, I think there's a chance that he simply had no idea how much damage he could cause, and maybe this incident itself will be enough to make him realise that he needs to change. I'm speculating, but that's possible. And maybe if that is the case, he could be rehabilitated.

To be fair that sentence is an absolute joke, I don't think it's fair to compare it to any genuine crime.

Who says he hasn't? The defence says he felt guilty, the family said he showed them no sign of remorse. But again, he could potentially have just been too ashamed to look them in the eyes knowing the pain he'd caused.

Equally, he could still be the horrible human being he was when he committed the crime. I don't want to appear to be defending him (I'm sort of defending the sentence - without knowing the full facts of the case), because he was clearly a vile 19 year old. But we are just getting one side of the story here, and maybe we shouldn't be so quick to call for a 19 year old to face life in prison without hearing the other side and coming to a conclusion based on that, like the jury and judge did.

[Aus Fox]

Personally I think people should be punished for their intentions rather than the result of their actions (to an extent), because I think that's a better way of assessing how much of a danger to society they are and the chances of rehabilitating them. Of course that's difficult to do. If he re-offends then I think by all means give him a significant sentence. If I was the victim of this of course I would want stricter punishment because of my emotional state, but I don't believe people with such a close connection to a case should have any influence on the outcome. Guilt needs to be judged by a jury, not by the victim, the Leicester Mercury or people on Foxes Talk who don't have all the facts.

Do you think Ben Flower should be given life imprisonment? Or do you think what he did is less of a crime, because the outcome was (luckily) different?

Guilt has been judged in a court of law, the question is not one of guilt this has already been proven, it's a question of the sentence.

I can't agree it should be on intent rather than the result.

We need to teach a bit of responsibility and if you are responsible for an action, then you need to be punished accordingly.

If a driver has 10 pints and drives home, killing someone on the way should he be let off as killing wasn't his intent?

No, there is a chance of this happening when you punch someone, and you need to face the consequences of your actions.

[Mark_w]

You see we do know the case, or ones like it,...it wasnt a brawl, it wasnt a clash of youth all being involved in a rumble, it wasnt

even an argument, that went too far.It was a group of yobs where this arrogant bully intended to harras and show his mates he

is the king of the streets, with some type of theft and use of fists was premeditated.

You get this type of low life in all walks of life, public and state schools, grammer, comprehensives, secondary.

I know , I originate from New Parks, been involved in rumbles, some so bloody useless everybody fell on the floor laughing,

some lads I knew were like that, but other even harder fairer lads put them in their place.It does seem the yobs have taken over

a large part of the cities streets.I am a teen from the 70s, the Friday and saturday night busses were s great craic for the banter,youth, teenies, older groups having a laugh, protect the drivers and conductors if some one tried it on, or went too far.

Rape, out of the question, even girls and women you didnt know, you kept you eye on.Walking home from the disco or late

party, that type of bully groups were outweighed by the hard goodguys.Local pub bullies a bit different, somebody could find

themselves the wrong side of a scuff wanting to prove their hardness, or how macho they are.Today so much theft, sheer- spitefullness

 

What?

 

 

Guilt has been judged in a court of law, the question is not one of guilt this has already been proven, it's a question of the sentence.

I can't agree it should be on intent rather than the result.

We need to teach a bit of responsibility and if you are responsible for an action, then you need to be punished accordingly.

If a driver has 10 pints and drives home, killing someone on the way should he be let off as killing wasn't his intent?

No, there is a chance of this happening when you punch someone, and you need to face the consequences of your actions.

 

See the difference between those two cases, is that I think we're sufficiently taught the potential consequences of drink driving. I don't think the same is true of punching someone. That's what I think based on my education, and I imagine it's similar to that of the guilty person who is the same age and living in the same city.

 

If we're going to arrest everyone who punches someone and lock them away for the rest of their lives because this could happen then we're going to have pretty full prisons. I'm not advocating punching people especially not in these circumstances, you should get a hefty sentence, and more than six months. But I really think these calls for life imprisonment or close to it (he's guilty of GBH, but even if it was a more serious charge) are going a bit far in this case.

[Aus Fox]

What?

See the difference between those two cases, is that I think we're sufficiently taught the potential consequences of drink driving. I don't think the same is true of punching someone. That's what I think based on my education, and I imagine it's similar to that of the guilty person who is the same age and living in the same city.

If we're going to arrest everyone who punches someone and lock them away for the rest of their lives because this could happen then we're going to have pretty full prisons. I'm not advocating punching people especially not in these circumstances, you should get a hefty sentence, and more than six months. But I really think these calls for life imprisonment or close to it (he's guilty of GBH, but even if it was a more serious charge) are going a bit far in this case.

We may have full prisons for a while, or people may learn to control themselves and not go around randomly punching people, because they have the wrong clothes on.

How better to educate people than pull out some big sentences, if you behave like this then there are severe consequences for you to face.

Saying your unaware of what could have happened is no excuse in my book.

[Guest MattP]

This reminds me why I don't think I could be a solicitor. While everyone is entitled to a proper defence, I couldn't go home happy that I'd secured a scumbag such a lenient sentence. Stats don't lie, this scumbag will more than likely go on to wreck more lives.

 

Same here, I've often wondered how lawyers/solicitors do manage to wrestle with their own minds when they achieve things like this or get somebody off a serious charge that they probably know is guilty.

 

Supposed to have to be able to blank it out to be one.

 

You wouldn't get away with this in 'civilised Europe'.

 

Just think had he came down to your place in the World he could have unloaded four bullets into him and probably got 4 months longer.

 

I'm incredibly uneasy with that and suggestions that he should be given anything near to life imprisonment.

 

I'm incredibly uneasy someone could read that, scan this thread and then comment that the first thing that felt uneasy about was someone commenting that he should have got longer in prison.

 

I don't think a single person here can try and defend this, it's ridiculously lenient for what has been committed and the consequence of someone's actions, satisfying the grief of the victim and his family should also be an important part of sentencing and they have completely let them down here.

 

How can anyone not know the potential outcomes of punching people at the age of 19? I also went to school in Leicester, I certainly knew long before that. (and you have to have grave doubts this was one punch looking at that picture)

[Mark_w]

I'm incredibly uneasy someone could read that, scan this thread and then comment that the first thing that felt uneasy about was someone commenting that he should have got longer in prison.

 

I don't think a single person here can try and defend this, it's ridiculously lenient for what has been committed and the consequence of someone's actions, satisfying the grief of the victim and his family should also be an important part of sentencing and they have completely let them down here.

 

How can anyone not know the potential outcomes of punching people at the age of 19? I also went to school in Leicester, I certainly knew long before that. (and you have to have grave doubts this was one punch looking at that picture)

 

Did I say that was the first thing that made me feel uneasy? Of course it wasn't, a bit offended that you think that's possible.

 

I've never been particularly interested in violence, and nobody ever said to me 'a single punch can kill someone', I knew it was possible in freak cases, and maybe I'm just naive but I didn't know there was any real possibility of it killing a healthy adult male. But surely then, we should as I say, be locking Ben Flower up for life, along with everyone else who has thrown a punch, I imagine it's a fairly long list. If you can't prove it was more than one punch, then I don't think you can say he deserves anything close to life. If he'd had to serve the two years he'd been sentenced to I think that would be a reasonable punishment.

[Benji]

What?

 

 

 

See the difference between those two cases, is that I think we're sufficiently taught the potential consequences of drink driving. I don't think the same is true of punching someone. That's what I think based on my education, and I imagine it's similar to that of the guilty person who is the same age and living in the same city.

 

If we're going to arrest everyone who punches someone and lock them away for the rest of their lives because this could happen then we're going to have pretty full prisons. I'm not advocating punching people especially not in these circumstances, you should get a hefty sentence, and more than six months. But I really think these calls for life imprisonment or close to it (he's guilty of GBH, but even if it was a more serious charge) are going a bit far in this case.

 

I think the point is that as a fellow human being you take responsibility for your own actions.  The moment you attack another person you should face the consequences of whatever follows.  Be you driving a car, carrying a weapon or hitting someone.

 

You don't need to be educated to understand if you hit someone they might fall and hit their head (I know that's not what happened here).  Unfortunately the kind of thug that goes around and hits people like in this instance simply don't give a fk about anyone or anything.

 

The story is one of the saddest things I've read in a long time - it's times like this I really hope there is a Hell.

[srbfox]

In NSW they now give mandatory eight-year prison terms for anyone who fatally punches someone while under the influence.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25805873