The irony of the 'Pearson out' argument...

[Grewks]

Potential isn't enough. It's took us 10 years to get here and it might be another 10 years until we do again. Somethings got to change.

 

 

Your talking like everybody who is saying we are not good enough are saying 'Sunday league', firstly me personally think we are a very good championship side, and Pearson had a very good season last season, but that's the championship.

The premier league has shown a lot of our players are not, or not going to make the step up.

Again wether Pearson has put to much faith in their ability, is one the history books will show.

Ok your still positive, let's see your faith, which players are going to step up, and get us out of this slump, and listening to Pearson, he just laughed when he was asked how he was going to stop it, so when will he turn it around.

I have no problem with you being positive in this slump, but doesn't make people morons because the results are shit, and we look at a loss to sort it out, and stating the players are not premier league standard.

 

 

By your two posts.....surely your only suggestions is that we should have spend £50 million plus in the summer then?

 

 

Outed the guys like mahrez and james who clearly have potential, and replaced them with the likes of Richard dunne etc.....?

 

 

 

I for one would rather finish bottom, with record low points, than risk spending £50 million quid and risk the future of the club.

[Grewks]

Potential isn't enough. It's took us 10 years to get here and it might be another 10 years until we do again. Somethings got to change.

 

 

If we retain the likes of moore, james, drinky, mahrez, schlupp and Pearson continues to recruit as well as he has done (such as cambiasso and ulloa this season), then we would be closer to being a top 10 premier league side than away from this level for 10 years.

[Webbo]

By your two posts.....surely your only suggestions is that we should have spend £50 million plus in the summer then?

 

 

Outed the guys like mahrez and james who clearly have potential, and replaced them with the likes of Richard dunne etc.....?

 

 

 

I for one would rather finish bottom, with record low points, than risk spending £50 million quid and risk the future of the club.

You're the only one talking about spending millions. We might spend that in January anyway if Pearson stays.

 

Different tactics, different selection who knows what a new manager would do?

[Monsell1976]

By your two posts.....surely your only suggestions is that we should have spend £50 million plus in the summer then?

Outed the guys like mahrez and james who clearly have potential, and replaced them with the likes of Richard dunne etc.....?

I for one would rather finish bottom, with record low points, than risk spending £50 million quid and risk the future of the club.

No but not getting in bargin basements on a free, a bit of sensible buying, adding quality to improve what we had.

I don't care what anybody says, the whole of the team was never going to step up, first choice should have been brought in, and the likes of vardy, schlupp and the likes that have potential, given time to adapt from the bench, and inter grate into the premier league, and not expected to produce the top of their ability week in, week out, and relied on to keep us up, in a league they have never played in

[foxinsocks]

The transfer options in the summer are in our rear vie wmirrot- we have to focus on how the team we have can start winning.

[inckley fox]

Totally disagree with you, with regards to both sides.

 

QPR's starting 18 from Saturday.....Green, Isla, Dunne, Caulker, Yun, Vargas, Barton, Henry, Fer, Zamora, Austin..............Ferdinand, Phillips, Onouha, Mccarthy, Mutch, Krancjar, Hoillet.

 

 

Those in bold are far better 'individuals' than we have, hence the majority have been capped internationally, some multiple times (Green, Isla, Dunne, Caulker, Ferdinand, Krancjar, Hoiller).

 

 

As for Burnley, their starting 18 had around 2-3 times the amount of premier league caps than our whole squad has.

 

 

I think we were 22 points better off than quite a few of those you've highlighted just six months ago. Let's not get hung up on experience. How much more experience did our 2003 line-up have compared to our 1996 side? Well, it was the former that went down and the latter which turned out to be our most successful team ever.

 

And we have top flight experience in De Laet, Simpson, Konchesky, Nugent, Taylor-Fletcher and Albrighton, among others, they're hardly our key performers, are they?

 

And, on top of that, top flight experience from overseas in Cambiasso, Ulloa and Wasilewski, and a guy who played in the biggest tournament on the planet earlier this year in Mahrez. I just don't see that this has anything to do with it.

[Grewks]

You're the only one talking about spending millions. We might spend that in January anyway if Pearson stays.

 

Different tactics, different selection who knows what a new manager would do?

 

 

you said 'potential' isn't good enough.

 

Therefore what do you suggest we do?

 

 

The only way we could replace the current lot is to spend a fortune.

[MC Prussian]

I think we were 22 points better off than quite a few of those you've highlighted just six months ago. Let's not get hung up on experience. How much more experience did our 2003 line-up have compared to our 1996 side? Well, it was the former that went down and the latter which turned out to be our most successful team ever.

 

And we have top flight experience in De Laet, Simpson, Konchesky, Nugent, Taylor-Fletcher and Albrighton, among others, they're hardly our key performers, are they?

 

And, on top of that, top flight experience from overseas in Cambiasso, Ulloa and Wasilewski, and a guy who played in the biggest tournament on the planet earlier this year in Mahrez. I just don't see that this has anything to do with it.

I didn't know Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool, Southampton, Newcastle, West Brom, Hull, Crystal Palace, Aston Villa, Sunderland, West Ham, Swansea, Tottenham or Stoke played in the Championship last season?

 

We had to work several years to finish first in the Championship, that doesn't happen overnight. You also fail to mention that we only finished that far off thanks to a late surge towards the end of last season.

 

As for your examples of "top-flight experience", let's take a closer look at some of them:

• De Laet: 9 Premier League games
• Nugent: 64 Premier League games, 9 goals
• Taylor-Fletcher: 22 Premier League games
• Albrighton: Didn't feature much in the past two seasons

Hardly prolific experience stats, aren't they?

 

And then the "overseas experience": Ulloa spent one season in La Liga (before his team got relegated).

Mahrez played a couple of minutes at a World Cup in an already pretty talented team, and came straight out of a Ligue 2/Championship season.

He still has a long way to go before being considered "world-class".

Wasilewski played in Belgium and Poland - I'd doubt the level of competition is that high as it is in England.

 

Can I have some of what you've been smoking recently?

[Webbo]

you said 'potential' isn't good enough.

 

Therefore what do you suggest we do?

 

 

The only way we could replace the current lot is to spend a fortune.

I suggest we try to stay and not just assume we're going to be great next season.

[inckley fox]

I didn't know Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool, Southampton, Newcastle, West Brom, Hull, Crystal Palace, Aston Villa, Sunderland, West Ham, Swansea, Tottenham or Stoke played in the Championship last season?

 

We had to work several years to finish first in the Championship, that doesn't happen overnight. You also fail to mention that we only finished that far off thanks to a late surge towards the end of last season.

 

As for your examples of "top-flight experience", let's take a closer look at some of them:

• De Laet: 9 Premier League games
• Nugent: 64 Premier League games, 9 goals
• Taylor-Fletcher: 22 Premier League games
• Albrighton: Didn't feature much in the past two seasons

Hardly prolific experience stats, aren't they?

 

And then the "overseas experience": Ulloa spent one season in La Liga (before his team got relegated).

Mahrez played a couple of minutes at a World Cup in an already pretty talented team, and came straight out of a Ligue 2/Championship season.

He still has a long way to go before being considered "world-class".

Wasilewski played in Belgium and Poland - I'd doubt the level of competition is that high as it is in England.

 

Can I have some of what you've been smoking recently?

 

Well there's a fundamental misunderstanding here for a start. I was referring to the QPR players you'd highlighted, not to any clubs.

[Grewks]

I suggest we try to stay and not just assume we're going to be great next season.

 

 

Of course we should try and stay....

 

 

 

But the reason all 3 promoted sides are predicted to go down is because they should.

Well there's a fundamental misunderstanding here for a start. I was referring to the QPR players you'd highlighted, not to any clubs.

 

Only a handful played last season....

 

 

and are still better than what we have.

[MC Prussian]

Well there's a fundamental misunderstanding here for a start. I was referring to the QPR players you'd highlighted, not to any clubs.

??

 

Where did I highlight any QPR players?

 

You were comparing last season to this, completely ignoring the type of opposition we're facing this campaign.

 

And to top it all off, you make it sound like we've got top-flight experience in abundance, when in reality, we don't.

[fuchsntf]

Now...let me lay this out for all the retards on here........

 

 

1. Nigel Pearson creates a side which masses our record points total in a season.

 

2. Side is promoted, but doing poorly.

 

3. Players are, in Schlupp's case, 'no better than sunday league', despite scoring more goals and creating more goals than Falcao.

 

4. Pearson praised for creating a side full of 'Sunday league' players which won the championship with 102 points, yet slated for behind 4 points behind 17th place with a side full of 'Sunday league' players.

 

 

 

Something isn't right with the logic.....The players cannot simply 'not be good enough' 12 months later, nor the manager.

 

We have no experience at this level....just look at how well the champions of the premier league have done in the champions league (their next level) without the experience.

Well said couldnt have been put better.Situation nailed .

[inckley fox]

I didn't know Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool, Southampton, Newcastle, West Brom, Hull, Crystal Palace, Aston Villa, Sunderland, West Ham, Swansea, Tottenham or Stoke played in the Championship last season?

 

We had to work several years to finish first in the Championship, that doesn't happen overnight. You also fail to mention that we only finished that far off thanks to a late surge towards the end of last season.

 

As for your examples of "top-flight experience", let's take a closer look at some of them:

• De Laet: 9 Premier League games
• Nugent: 64 Premier League games, 9 goals
• Taylor-Fletcher: 22 Premier League games
• Albrighton: Didn't feature much in the past two seasons

Hardly prolific experience stats, aren't they?

 

And then the "overseas experience": Ulloa spent one season in La Liga (before his team got relegated).

Mahrez played a couple of minutes at a World Cup in an already pretty talented team, and came straight out of a Ligue 2/Championship season.

He still has a long way to go before being considered "world-class".

Wasilewski played in Belgium and Poland - I'd doubt the level of competition is that high as it is in England.

 

Can I have some of what you've been smoking recently?

 

You conveniently neglect to mention Cambiasso. Or the 80+ PL games Albrighton played in for Villa. And Wasilewski's experience easily measures up to that of some of those QPR players the original post (by Grewks) had highlighted.

 

You've also failed to respond to my point on how experience doesn't necessarily add up to success. Otherwise we would have been the most successful side in the world in 2004, and relegated with about six points in 1997. As it happens we were comfortably relegated in 2004 and had one of our most successful ever seasons, finishing in the top half of the table and winning a domestic trophy in 1997.

 

You also ignore my point about how it's actually some of our experienced players who are most letting us down this season. And our success in the Championship wasn't down to seasoned Championship veterans with a proven track record, as QPR's was. 

 

It's remarkable that, in spite of the incredibly good stuff you imagine me to be smoking, I can still clearly remember these things!

[MC Prussian]

You conveniently neglect to mention Cambiasso. Or the 80+ PL games Albrighton played in for Villa. And Wasilewski's experience easily measures up to that of some of those QPR players you highlighted.

 

You've also failed to respond to my point on how experience doesn't necessarily add up to success. Otherwise we would have been the most successful side in the world in 2004, and relegated with about six points in 1997. As it happens we were comfortably relegated in 2004 and had one of our most successful ever seasons, finishing in the top half of the table and winning a domestic trophy in 1997.

 

You also ignore my point about how it's actually some of our experienced players who are most letting us down this season. And our success in the Championship wasn't down to seasoned Championship veterans with a proven track record, as QPR's was. 

 

It's remarkable that, in spite of the incredibly good stuff you imagine me to be smoking, I can still clearly remember these things!

Again, where did I highlight any QPR players? Are you for real or simply confusing me with somebody else? Is age catching up with you?

Seriously, what's going on with you?

 

Our success in the Championship was down to hard work, belief and experience. Experience amassed over a couple of heartbreaking seasons and willingness to overcome this status quo by all means. The reactions in the not-so-successful times then remind me a bit of what's going on here tonight.

 

Wasilewski has played in Poland and Belgium, two mediocre leagues with a couple of teams stealing the limelight, the rest is pants. He luckily happened to play for one of the best sides in Belgium (Anderlecht) with loads of talent around him. He was brought in to stabilize our defense in the Championship, but I don't see him as the answer in the Premier League. I always fear for the worst with him.

 

I gave you a couple of names you put into the circulation and the majority of them have never lived up to the "experience" tag you're attributing them.

[inckley fox]

Again, where did I highlight any QPR players? Are you for real or simply confusing me with somebody else? Is age catching up with you?

Seriously, what's going on with you?

 

Our success in the Championship was down to hard work, belief and experience. Experience amassed over a couple of heartbreaking seasons and willingness to overcome this status quo by all means. The reactions in the not-so-successful times then remind me a bit of what's going on here tonight.

 

Wasilewski has played in Poland and Belgium, two mediocre leagues with a couple of teams stealing the limelight, the rest is pants. He luckily happened to play for one of the best sides in Belgium (Anderlecht) with loads of talent around him. He was brought in to stabilize our defense in the Championship, but I don't see him as the answer in the Premier League. I always fear for the worst with him.

 

I gave you a couple of names you put into the circulation and the majority of them have never lived up to the "experience" tag you're attributing them.

 

I can see you're a lovely, kind-natured human being and not at all unnecessarily confrontational. You responded to my own response, which was to a message which highlighted a list of players. So you disagreed with me disagreeing with a list of players, and hadn't seen the original message. I've amended the post to clarify that, so you can calm yourself down now and get on with having a conversation like a normal person.

 

That post was also talking about experience in terms of international caps. Well Wasilewski is right up there on that score. And he has Champions League experience.

 

And of course experience counts for something, but our experience at 2nd level was - at the beginning of our promotion season - considerably inferior to most other sides in that league, even if our average age wasn't necessarily.

 

And you haven't addressed this key issue that we have, what, 500 top flight appearances between Nugent, Konchesky and Albrighton and yet this hasn't corresponded to them being especially important for us. Similarly, the last side we came up with which held its own had very little top flight experience too, whereas the last side we came comfortably down with (and the one before that) most certainly did.

 

Experience is important. But I'd take Ulloa, Schlupp and Mahrez - who you are lumping into the 'inexperienced' category - over Nugent, Konchesky and Albrighton at the minute. The real issue is quality - at left back, on the flanks, up front, and in depth. Second to that, and as regards set pieces and other deliveries into the box, the issue might be height. But I see no point in making it about some spurious quality, in this case experience, which doesn't appear to have anything to do with what's lacking.

[blueoveru]

This league is a whole new ball game where players are fitter, faster more skilful,  both in thought and deed, every team who gets promoted has to wise up damn quickly or lose the plot just as quickly our problem is we haven't wised up yet, we have made too many enforced errors which in all probability would not have mattered too much in the Championship but in this league its pounced on and highlighted by the Media.

 

Had we beaten Burnley instead of capitulating to a late goal things might have been different as I'm sure that game knocked the stuffing out of a lot of our players and the management and we have  have failed  to get to grips ever since

[Bunyip]

Now...let me lay this out for all the retards on here........

 

 

1. Nigel Pearson creates a side which masses our record points total in a season.

 

2. Side is promoted, but doing poorly.

 

3. Players are, in Schlupp's case, 'no better than sunday league', despite scoring more goals and creating more goals than Falcao.

 

4. Pearson praised for creating a side full of 'Sunday league' players which won the championship with 102 points, yet slated for behind 4 points behind 17th place with a side full of 'Sunday league' players.

 

 

 

Something isn't right with the logic.....The players cannot simply 'not be good enough' 12 months later, nor the manager.

 

We have no experience at this level....just look at how well the champions of the premier league have done in the champions league (their next level) without the experience.

 

We are bottom of the league. we can't even guess where our next points are coming from. Logic thus dictates that the team and the manager of 12 months ago are simply NOT good enough . The table does not lie.

[MC Prussian]

I can see you're a lovely, kind-natured human being and not at all unnecessarily confrontational. You responded to my own response, which was to a message which highlighted a list of players. So you disagreed with me disagreeing with a list of players, and hadn't seen the original message. I've amended the post to clarify that, so you can calm yourself down now and get on with having a conversation like a normal person.

 

That post was also talking about experience in terms of international caps. Well Wasilewski is right up there on that score. And he has Champions League experience.

 

And of course experience counts for something, but our experience at 2nd level was - at the beginning of our promotion season - considerably inferior to most other sides in that league, even if our average age wasn't necessarily.

 

And you haven't addressed this key issue that we have, what, 500 top flight appearances between Nugent, Konchesky and Albrighton and yet this hasn't corresponded to them being especially important for us. Similarly, the last side we came up with which held its own had very little top flight experience too, whereas the last side we came comfortably down with (and the one before that) most certainly did.

 

Experience is important. But I'd take Ulloa, Schlupp and Mahrez - who you are lumping into the 'inexperienced' category - over Nugent, Konchesky and Albrighton at the minute. The real issue is quality - at left back, on the flanks, up front, and in depth. Second to that, and as regards set pieces and other deliveries into the box, the issue might be height. But I see no point in making it about some spurious quality, in this case experience, which doesn't appear to have anything to do with what's lacking.

I usually am pretty calm, only enjoy a good debate.

Maybe you want to be a bit more precise when you call out others - up to this day, I did not highlight any of those QPR players myself directly.

You also bring up Schlupp whom I haven't mentioned up to this point. All a bit bizarre.

 

Still not trying to take anything away from your argument, but the highlighted list of players you were responding to featured for a team that won promotion alongside with us - QPR.

 

The 500 Premier League games between Nugent, Albrighton and Konchesky you mention are not divided that equally - Konchesky alone accounts for more than half of that!

Nugent's performances so far have been underwhelming, why Albrighton has featured more often you'll have to ask the manager, Konchesky's been decent overall but age is catching up with him, I'm afraid.

 

I concur that we should've gone for more Premier League experience at the start of the season. Why we didn't? I can't tell, could well be down to financial constraints (owners keeping a tight lid on for now due to FFP and the release of the 2013/2014 figures).

 

I never said Ulloa or Mahrez were "inexperienced", but in comparison, they are a lot less experienced than others.

 

In the end, I think December should be regarded as a run-out, and I'm keen on finding out how we're doing in the January transfer window.

As disappointing as our current run is, I try looking ahead.

[Guest Col city fan]

The question, for me, is this:

Do people think someone else could take this bunch of players and get something else out of them?

To get this existing squad looking much better?

If yes, then perhaps a change is called for?

If no, we keep Pearson. There'd be no point in changing anyway.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

He deserves a contract extension for picking the players everyone is ranting about? He's the manager, what else are they going to slate him for his trainers?

Yep, give him an extension for being so awful. Now, go chew that barbed wire.

[foxinsocks]

Pearson frustrates me - he doesn't seem to be fixing stuff - organisation of the defence at set pieces; our own set pieces; defending higher up; crossing early (diagonally)... 5 in midfield away from home etc etc.  BUT he could (and must sort these things out - though I don't expect he reads the forum for ideas.  I wish he would - he could.  That's why I am not a big fan. 

 

But right now he is the best one to work with his squad (who support him) and make improvements to turn thing around - there's still time. 

 

 

so:

 

The question, for me, is this:
Do people think someone else could take this bunch of players and get something else out of them?
To get this existing squad looking much better?
If yes, then perhaps a change is called for?
If no, we keep Pearson. There'd be no point in changing anyway.

No, No - and No (he must be scouting for the role he need (I hope for defensive midfielder - he is looking for yet another centre half and a striker) - so I believe we should support Nigel and the team...

[inckley fox]

I usually am pretty calm, only enjoy a good debate.

Maybe you want to be a bit more precise when you call out others - up to this day, I did not highlight any of those QPR players myself directly.

You also bring up Schlupp whom I haven't mentioned up to this point. All a bit bizarre.

 

Still not trying to take anything away from your argument, but the highlighted list of players you were responding to featured for a team that won promotion alongside with us - QPR.

 

The 500 Premier League games between Nugent, Albrighton and Konchesky you mention are not divided that equally - Konchesky alone accounts for more than half of that!

Nugent's performances so far have been underwhelming, why Albrighton has featured more often you'll have to ask the manager, Konchesky's been decent overall but age is catching up with him, I'm afraid.

 

I concur that we should've gone for more Premier League experience at the start of the season. Why we didn't? I can't tell, could well be down to financial constraints (owners keeping a tight lid on for now due to FFP and the release of the 2013/2014 figures).

 

I never said Ulloa or Mahrez were "inexperienced", but in comparison, they are a lot less experienced than others.

 

In the end, I think December should be regarded as a run-out, and I'm keen on finding out how we're doing in the January transfer window.

As disappointing as our current run is, I try looking ahead.

 

You know, there's no point arguing with you on any of this. I've probably agreed with your posts more than most others' today. I just don't feel experience is the biggest issue.

[hackneyfox]

If we retain the likes of moore, james, drinky, mahrez, schlupp and Pearson continues to recruit as well as he has done (such as cambiasso and ulloa this season), then we would be closer to being a top 10 premier league side than away from this level for 10 years.

Jesus wept

[MC Prussian]

You know, there's no point arguing with you on any of this. I've probably agreed with your posts more than most others' today. I just don't feel experience is the biggest issue.

I know, we're all a bit worn out after an emotional day such as today.