Have we ever had to 'out think' an opponent?

[Bettsj2]

So, before last season started pretty much every one on here said "this squads not good enough", "we've not bought enough players", "look at the teams coming down" etc etc. And now with hindsight after we get promotion, that's nothing to do with Pearson tactically and all to do with us having the best squad. Did we also have the best squad in the league the season we came up from league one? Yeah right.

I'll happily admit Pearson is no tactical genius, I'll also admit our recruitment has been good the years Pearson has been here. But the leagues are littered with teams that had expensive squads, ex premier league squads etc that have failed. To once again try and pull any achievement away from Pearson by again suggesting it has little to do with him is tiresome. As tiresome as the people who always used to give Steve Walsh all the credit for us doing anything good, because "he picked the players", something which, funnily enough has vanished from the vocabulary of those who said it when things were going well for Pearson.

We have a good mixture, good recruitment and a decent manager.

This.

So many were creaming over Forest, Bolton, Wigan's squads pre season last year.

Sometimes you dont have to sign players to be successful and Pearson proved that last year.

[Corky]

Well we definitely had the best squad the year we came up from League One.

That is not to diminish Pearson's achievements in any way - we've seen time and again that having the best players doesn't guarantee anything without good management.

 

Did we? Leeds had Becchio, Beckford, Snodgrass, Howson, Delph, Ankergren (who was better than all of the keepers we used).

 

Pearson's squad that reached the play-offs in 2010 was on a par with our relegation team of 2008, which had McAuley, Clemence, Kisnorbo, Campbell, Stearman- all players (barring Kisnorbo) who have had decent spells in the Premier League.

[Guest ttfn]

Did we? Leeds had Becchio, Beckford, Snodgrass, Howson, Delph, Ankergren (who was better than all of the keepers we used).

Pearson's squad that reached the play-offs in 2010 was on a par with our relegation team of 2008, which had McAuley, Clemence, Kisnorbo, Campbell, Stearman- all players (barring Kisnorbo) who have had decent spells in the Premier League.

Yes, definitely.

The previous year we'd gone down with what was then a record number of points and a very respectable goal difference. Most seasons we'd have stayed up comfortably - to put it into perspective we finished 26 points behind Stoke who went up automatically and last season we finished 22 points ahead of the side in 4th.

We then spent the best part of £1 million on a new centre back, had a full season of 2 of Derby's key figures in their Championship promotion winning campaign of 2 years earlier and a Swiss international at left back.

[Guest Col city fan]

I am aware that this might seem a strange question but looking back over Pearson's two periods in charge have we ever out thought another side or have we simply always had better players?

Obviously these two factors might not be mutually exclusive (and I am not entirely sure this is the case myself) but from our league 1 campaign through to last season's record breaking title win I can't recall us tactically beating our opponents or beating a 'bigger' or 'better' side, we've always seemed to have superior players in each position. This season when faced with not having superior players we have understandably struggled but unlike the moderately better performing sides like Barnsley we aren't used to having to out think/manouvre our opponents or nulify a specific opposing player.

Yes. Pearson out-thought Norwich in the FA cup away game. They had, arguably, the better side. We packed the midfield (I think?) and played Nugent with Beckford and hit on the counter with pace. And it worked lovely. Great game to be at actually.

[artursteppe]

So, before last season started pretty much every one on here said "this squads not good enough", "we've not bought enough players", "look at the teams coming down" etc etc. And now with hindsight after we get promotion, that's nothing to do with Pearson tactically and all to do with us having the best squad.  Did we also have the best squad in the league the season we came up from league one? Yeah right.

 

I'll happily admit Pearson is no tactical genius, I'll also admit our recruitment has been good the years Pearson has been here. But the leagues are littered with teams that had expensive squads, ex premier league squads etc that have failed. To once again try and pull any achievement away from Pearson by again suggesting it has little to do with him is tiresome. As tiresome as the people who always used to give Steve Walsh all the credit for us doing anything good, because "he picked the players", something which, funnily enough has vanished from the vocabulary of those who said it when things were going well for Pearson.

 

We have a good mixture, good recruitment and a decent manager.

I am sort of coming round to the Nigey thing. He does get there in the end. It always seems to take him longer than it should, but he gets there eventually. I would always prefer someone quicker of thought as far as tactics and player assessment is concerned, but to change manager could mean we got someone better ( quicker ), but it could also mean we could end up with someone who might never get it right.

 

I just find it all so frustrating that our manager has to learn as he goes along, has to learn stuff from Esteban ( by his own admission ), gets paid a LOT of money for what seems to be a bit of a 'trainee' position at the moment.

 

I only hope that if I can 'temper' my frustrations a little that Nigey will get there soon enough for us to servive in the Premiership this season

[ADK]

I think it's somewhat of a myth that a good manager can get a poor squad to win games consistently. We've competed in every match we've played this season despite having a worse squad on paper than everyone bar Burnley. The results haven't always been fair. We were slightly the better team against Burnley Sunderland West Brom QPR and Spurs but only took 2 points from those, although we were fortunate to beat Hull and possibly Stoke and faced Man U before they got their act together.

 

I do think Pearson's strength is in off field management though, the ability to work with other people, the owners, his scouting network, the youth academy, the coaches, the players. That's why I feel comfortable with him in charge as he'll never leave a mess behind. You only have to look at the recruitment this summer where we were signing prospects such as Lawrence when most teams would be entirely focussed on bringing in experience. Pearson still wants to build for the future. Most of us were baffled by the inclusion of Schlupp so often this year but he's been impressive for me in the last 3 matches so maybe Pearson saw what he could do.

 

A lot of having the "best squad" is in doing the above things right. We weren't the only team spending money in the championship and with Sven's liabilities, if we actually made FPP then it shows that Pearson built the current squad with a modest budget.

[Fox92]

Well we definitely had the best squad the year we came up from League One.

 

I'd say we were strong, but so were Leeds and I recall many neutrals having Leeds down to win the League.

 

Lets not underestimate our League One season either. To not only win promotion at the first attempt, but to win the league too was special.

[Stadt]

Ipswich away last year, their midfield had control so we changed to 352 and won from being 1-0 down.

[Danizen]

The Play-Off Semi-Final against Watford springs to mind. At the time, they were comfortably better than us and in the first leg, we had Nugent stick to Chalobah to mark him out of the game and I believe the plan in the second leg, while we were winning or drawing was to keep launching the ball forward and either see out the win or take our chances at penalties. Watford were brutal on the counter as we found out a few weeks earlier and you can't counter attack against a team that keeps booting the ball to your defenders. Obviously our players switched off and we conceded an almost perfect counter attacking goal. By the time we were losing and had to attack them, it was too late.

[BlackburnClaret]

yeah weren't burnley the only unbeaten home team in England or something shit til super nige rocked up an smashed the shit out of them

Took some real thinking about that one, no Ings, Trippier, Marney or Vokes. I still think we would have won the title had those four played.

[ScouseFox]

Took some real thinking about that one, no Ings, Trippier, Marney or Vokes. I still think we would have won the title had those four played.

 

yeah sure cos you were miles ahead of us through the season when they were playing and we only just got in front of you once all four were injured. i think?

 

or did we ****ing romp the league without even trying and finish miles ahead of you. can't remember? 

[Stadt]

Took some real thinking about that one, no Ings, Trippier, Marney or Vokes. I still think we would have won the title had those four played.

Seriously? You're usually quite fair but I highly doubt that.

[BlackburnClaret]

Seriously? You're usually quite fair but I highly doubt that.

Just a thought, the momentum may have swung our way, but there's no denying that you played us just at the right time. Although having said that, we were just as injury striken this season when we played you.

[Danizen]

yeah sure cos you were miles ahead of us through the season when they were playing and we only just got in front of you once all four were injured. i think?

 

or did we ****ing romp the league without even trying and finish miles ahead of you. can't remember? 

Both teams kind of stuttered for the next few games. The title race was dead in the water.

[Stadt]

Just a thought, the momentum may have swung our way, but there's no denying that you played us just at the right time. Although having said that, we were just as injury striken this season when we played you.

Yeah it might have done but it's very speculative - we were comfortable post December and we never looked like we were gonna fvck up

[BlackburnClaret]

Yeah it might have done but it's very speculative - we were comfortable post December and we never looked like we were gonna fvck up

In reality it wasn't, but have a read back of your last seasons Championship, most of you were shitting yourselves even when you had 90 odd points!

[The Blue Moon]

Wimbledon cup semi final 1997, especially the second leg. Played them at their own game which no one else would dare.

Good LCFC contingent out in Liverpool tonight let's take the scousers!

[Stadt]

In reality it wasn't, but have a read back of your last seasons Championship, most of you were shitting yourselves even when you had 90 odd points!

I think most fans of most clubs would do the same. People were calling us champions elect in February

[BlackburnClaret]

I think most fans of most clubs would do the same. People were calling us champions elect in February

While most were still writing us off until April.

[Donut]

There have been too many instances of outhinking an opponent to list them all in a thread. I couldnt recall all of them if i tried.

 

Football doesnt go to plan. Breaking a team down, nullifying a strength of theirs, playing on a strength of ours, those are all outwitting the opponent.

[Stadt]

While most were still writing us off until April.

Tbf I still thought you'd fall away in January

[Guest ttfn]

Tbf I still thought you'd fall away in January

Me too. But they were never getting 100 points.

[Babylon]

I just find it all so frustrating that our manager has to learn as he goes along, has to learn stuff from Esteban ( by his own admission )

 

I wouldn't want a manager that didn't learn as he went along and didn't learn from other people. People like that will never progress, so I'm not sure why you'd want that.

[Babylon]

Just a thought, the momentum may have swung our way, but there's no denying that you played us just at the right time. Although having said that, we were just as injury striken this season when we played you.

 

But you couldn't beat us even with them playing (see the first game) and we were ahead of you even with them all playing (see before the injuries). Maybe you would have won the league, maybe you wouldn't, but there is not a huge amount you can point to that says you would have.