Midfield Quality

[Guest bss9401]

How much would we get if we put Ulloa up for sale? I guess that we would get £8m back instantly.

[lcfcsnow]

How much would we get if we put Ulloa up for sale? I guess that we would get £8m back instantly.

 

Be lucky to get half, only us were willing to go to such a ridiculous price.

[Dan]

I don't agree with the situation but £8mil for someone who has managed 7 Premier League goals by January (8 including cup games, 9 including the one at home to Liverpool) really isn't poor business.

 

He isn't a terrific footballer but the bloke scores goals.

[Guest bss9401]

I'm looking forward to having a fit DD and a refreshed MJ back together in the middle. With RM returning it would be a real opportunity for second wind, especially as they now have AKr up front.

[glenelgfox]

Anyone saying our midfield is good enough to survive needs to look at how we've performed in 90% of the games this season.

The blame cannot be put on Ulloa, who has scored when needed with a lack of shots / shooting (heading) opportunities. And I feel the Leicester faithful, bless there hearts, but if Kramaric can't score 5 goals from 10 shots on target, he's going to be moaned at as he won't have the work rate of Vardy, or the scouse-like link up like Nuge as Kram is a poacher. The reason Ulloa (and Kram when he starts) drop back so much is because there's nobody in midfield actually bringing the ball forward, or confident enough to take on their opposing midfield player.

 

So essentially it's utterly pointless to break the bank on Kramaric, or any striker for that matter, if we're not creating, or creative enough in the center of the park (Mahrez / Schlupp excluded as wingers) then we're going to be forever never scoring more than 1 / 2 goals in a game, or creating enough opportunities for our goal scorers to score goals.

 

It obviously matches with the above posts about our similar CMs, but it's down to our obvious lack of premiership quality and our players inability to be all-round midfielders. 

 

Essien would have been great. We need to buy a player who can both take hold of the game, be defensive - and have the ability to attack, score, and create. 

 

Spot on - apart from the Villa game recently where Nugent missed a myriad of chances - in the main he, Vardy and Ulloa have been starved of decent opportunities for 98% of the season to date and if your only getting 1 shot per game over a course of 5-10 games your touch and finishing is going to get rusty not to mention your confidence.

[the-blue-wildabeast]

The only thing exposed on Saturday was that we can't cope with two fit central midfielders. We were completely lacking the option to go to a three that actually turned the game around against Stoke at their place.

 

Of course those teams are years ahead in terms of quality, they have been in the league for years and had the time to invest over a sustained period.

If we had a decent manager that could think outside the box we could have gone 3 in the middle. King and drinky in front of back 4 with any from Nugent, Knocky or albrighton playing an attacking midfield role. Players that can run FORWARD with the ball and create.

[Babylon]

Be lucky to get half, only us were willing to go to such a ridiculous price.

Nonsense

[Babylon]

If we had a decent manager that could think outside the box we could have gone 3 in the middle. King and drinky in front of back 4 with any from Nugent, Knocky or albrighton playing an attacking midfield role. Players that can run FORWARD with the ball and create.

Yeah if only we had a decent manager!! You must have loved every other manager the last 15 years hey!

 

You don't think he'd actually considered it? But you see all you've done is play attacking players out of position none of them are CM's.

[Babylon]

This having time to invest over a sustained period only goes so far. I remember when Southampton came up two divisions in successive years then managed fine in the Prem. O'Neill secured what 8th? In his first year.

Get the right players in, they'll do ok. There are examples of teams getting up then going straight down, then other teams making the step up fine.

I agree, the longer you are in the Prem, the better the chances of building a squad capable of getting up the table.

But it doesn't always work like that. Hull for example, look worse this year than last. Though they are blighted with injury.

I think the right manager spends the right money on the right players and plays them the right way.

 

I'm well aware it doesn't always work like that, but he's comparing our midfield against midfields that are established in this league.

 

[Guest]

I honestly think I'm watching a different team to some of you.

 

When we set our team up with 2 wide men - which is most of the time - it's the 2 wide men who drive the ball forward. How you can expect the 2 holding midfielders to do this on a consistent basis too blows my mind. If you want a set up that has a CM pushing forward all the time we need to remove wide men.

 

We have chosen to play wide - that's the style.

[Ian S]

If we had a decent manager that could think outside the box we could have gone 3 in the middle. King and drinky in front of back 4 with any from Nugent, Knocky or albrighton playing an attacking midfield role. Players that can run FORWARD with the ball and create.

Decent Manager! Guessing you were not around for Mclintock,Pleat,Taylor,Levein, Holloway and dare I say Eriksson who certainly belongs in that list.

Behave yourself, Pearson has been fantastic for this club and it may end in tears at some stage as most Managers eventually get sacked but he has dragged us back from the abyss which people very quickly forgot.

[reynard]

I honestly think I'm watching a different team to some of you.

 

When we set our team up with 2 wide men - which is most of the time - it's the 2 wide men who drive the ball forward. How you can expect the 2 holding midfielders to do this on a consistent basis too blows my mind. If you want a set up that has a CM pushing forward all the time we need to remove wide men.

 

We have chosen to play wide - that's the style.

 

Pretty much posted exactly what I was going to say.

Our creativity such as it is doesn't come from Hammond or King or Drinkwater but from the two wide players we play most of the time.

The question is how many chances have they created between them. The answer is not enough.

Personally I don't think any of our central midfields have proved up to the job this season. Cambiasso ought to be the player to take the game by the scruff of the neck but he hasn't dominated in the way I hoped. Hammond has been far better than expected but the other three have been a let down and don't look good enough.

 

We lack a serious physical prescence in the middle of the pitch.

Our wide men don't look good enough either and because we don't keep the ball very well they spend a lot of their time defending. Schlupp looks good sometimes but more often than not his final ball is terrible. The same can be said for Mahrez, though he was starting to look better of late. Albrighton doesn't seem able to get a look in and Lawrence doesn't look ready though he has some nice technical ability. Knockaert looked ok against Villa but he's lacking that yard of pace required at this level to really make a difference.

We're also suffering from playing two full backs, neither of whom are much use going forward. Simpson in fact is really hopeless in an attacking sense.

 

We've spent a lot of money on two strikers but not addressed the major issues behind them and until we do were going to struggle at this level. They may be learning but their not learning quickly enough and the downward spiral to the championship is looking very likely.

[Bagworthblue]

The only thing exposed on Saturday was that we can't cope with two fit central midfielders. We were completely lacking the option to go to a three that actually turned the game around against Stoke at their place.

 

Of course those teams are years ahead in terms of quality, they have been in the league for years and had the time to invest over a sustained period.

Agree and especially if there isn't a ball winner amongst the 2 centre mids. If you don't have the ball, you can't create. We missed one of James or Hammond vs Stoke. Our best midfield has to be one of those + Cambiasso in a 4-4-2 or arguably both of those + Cambiasso in a 3 man centre midfield. I doubt Pearson would ever choose to play King and Drinkwater together. We can't base our requirement for more creativity in midfield on one game with a far from ideal pairing that was thrust upon us

[shailen]

I don't think our midfield quality is that bad to be fair. The reason why we don't dominate possession and subsequently our midfield look like they lack 'quality' is because we tend to play a more direct style which takes them out the game. Other teams near the bottom have the same issue, and it's fine because we aren't going to dominate the best teams. I like the shape our midfield keeps. It's very tight and compact and with the pace on the flanks we can spring on the counter. This is what we have been trying to do more or less all season. 

 

And I think for the most part we have done this well. The tactics have worked well in general play. The problem has been in the box at either end. Our strikers haven't taken our chances, and our defending at times has been laughable. These are the areas that we have to address. 

[Clever Fox]

Pearson started out trying to take the game to the opposition the same as last year. When we were quickly found out he had to try and change. Now our midfiled sit in front of the back four and we try and progress down the flanks. This approach is ok, the problem is you need wingers who can beat a man get to the back line and cross. We're not doing that because our players are not good enough or the opposition know they just have to wait for them to fumble the ball. Added to that Mahrez always wants to come inside .

The opposition know that and wait. While all that is going on our midfield is generally to far back or have been told not get to far forward. there in lies our problem. Playing long balls forward hoping to retain possession. This system is ok but you need players to break quickly and sometimes dare I say it, I think our players are not quite fit enough. 

If you look at all the tops sides, they hunt in packs of 3 or 4 at a time. Always an out ball to retain possession. This gives them the time to take up the killer position, be it the final pass or the hot on goal. I believe we have most of the players to improve our position but only if they're used in the right way.

While I'm a fan of Pearson I don't believe he's doing that.

[shailen]

Pearson started out trying to take the game to the opposition the same as last year. When we were quickly found out he had to try and change. Now our midfiled sit in front of the back four and we try and progress down the flanks. This approach is ok, the problem is you need wingers who can beat a man get to the back line and cross. We're not doing that because our players are not good enough or the opposition know they just have to wait for them to fumble the ball. Added to that Mahrez always wants to come inside .

The opposition know that and wait. While all that is going on our midfield is generally to far back or have been told not get to far forward. there in lies our problem. Playing long balls forward hoping to retain possession. This system is ok but you need players to break quickly and sometimes dare I say it, I think our players are not quite fit enough. 

If you look at all the tops sides, they hunt in packs of 3 or 4 at a time. Always an out ball to retain possession. This gives them the time to take up the killer position, be it the final pass or the hot on goal. I believe we have most of the players to improve our position but only if they're used in the right way.

While I'm a fan of Pearson I don't believe he's doing that.

 

Good 'clever' post, although I disagree with your view.

 

Firstly, to hunt in packs of 3 and 4 will likely see us retain more possession and force the opposition into more mistakes, however it requires very high energy levels which I do not think we can maintain, not because we are not fit but simply because it is impossible. Furthermore, by hunting further up the whole team needs to press higher, and therefore it becomes easier for the opposition to exploit us because of the space we leave behind, and I do not think our defence is pacy enough to recover in order to cope. I agree with your point that the wingers need to do more, they simply are not getting enough high quality balls into the box. And Mahrez, as good a player as he is, is guilty of delaying the ball in at the first opportunity on the break.  

 

In essence, there are two styles of play we can go with

 

1) A high tempo, high pressure game 

2) A low tempo, counter attacking game

 

I would go with the second because it is more likely that we can stay in games with this strategy. Then try and break when the opportunity arises. 

[Manwell Pablo]

7 goals from 15 starts in the prem isn't bad at all for this level, form or not - that period when he wasn't scoring was a reflection of the team. Bony has scored 9 from 16 starts, and Lukaku 6 goals from 19 starts. 

 

Ulloa isn't overpriced.

 

 

Ulloa has scored a lot of really good goals too. He's only had 1 tap in and 1 penalty. The others have been really impressive. He scores goals where Nugent and Vardy would simply never score. That is worth 8 million.

 

That'd be your opinion not fact, and  if you think 2 months of good form is all the justification needed for a eight million pound fee then it's one I've little respect for, no better than those that want Pearson out after one lose and I told you so's who come back after one win. What people seem to miss with this argument is that 8 million pounds is A LOT of money, you can by genuine quality if it is spent correctly and while his early goal scoring form is noteworthy I'd struggle to describe Leo Ulloa as genuine quality and I don't have much faith in him scoring anything like the rate he did earlier this season with any regularity what so ever. 

 

As I've said elsewhere everyone's public enemy no.1 Ade Akinbiyi managed to net 9 times in his first league season (what Ulloa will end up with if his next 5 months mirror his last 5 months) many a shit player has a decent run in the Premier League.  Which is why your comparison with Bony and Lukaku is stupid as they've both got very good scoring records of nearly one in two over 70  and 50 odd appearances, not a record of one in three over half a season. 

 

Nothing impressive about the Everton goal dead center of the goal on a nice half volley in space keeper stranded no more than 8 yards out as Sylvan had a mare. So that'd be three for me, which I know is not a big figure but it's a fair percentage of 7. Don't get the comparisons with Nugent and Vardy, I'm saying we could of signed better not that we have better here. As I said he'd be in my side with Kramaric at the minute.

[Claridge]

What, out injured?

No he's overpriced when compared to how we would of done if we had gone out and spent it on someone else. Or, as I said at the time, take 3-4 or four million more and go out and get some real quality. I am amazed Pearson views Ulloa as 8 million worth of striker yet Shinji Okazaki is "too much" at 10 for example.

Ulloa has been very lucky with some of the chances that have landed in his lap this season without them he could well have 3-4 goals, and if he sticks around for the long haul my wager would be he will struggle to keep up his early rate of scoring, as he is already showing in fact. He's scored two league goals since September and even when he has scored we've taken 0 points. He's actually in deceptively poor form and it's being masked by his great start.

Don't get me wrong he'd be in my XI alongside Kramaric at this moment in time, but 8 million, dunno how anyone can seriously suggest the opinion we over spent on him is wrong beyond doubt.

[Claridge]

Ulloa not a bargain?

Gary linekar would do nothing all game.couldnt tackle,head or pass but would be worth 50 million today as he scored.ulloa been excellent when compared to the other muppets up front and who could we get whose better?ulloa gets 7 more and kramaric the same we will probably stay up

[eunmac]

Perhaps we should learn to pass to midfield from the back. Hamer hoofed 31 of his 35 passes against Stoke (21 of these failed to get to a city player). Konch also - 10 hoofed long passes, 7 failed.

 

Or... maybe they both read this thread and decided it was a good tactic to avoid our midfield completely using long balls.

[Clever Fox]

Good 'clever' post, although I disagree with your view.

 

Firstly, to hunt in packs of 3 and 4 will likely see us retain more possession and force the opposition into more mistakes, however it requires very high energy levels which I do not think we can maintain, not because we are not fit but simply because it is impossible. Furthermore, by hunting further up the whole team needs to press higher, and therefore it becomes easier for the opposition to exploit us because of the space we leave behind, and I do not think our defence is pacy enough to recover in order to cope. I agree with your point that the wingers need to do more, they simply are not getting enough high quality balls into the box. And Mahrez, as good a player as he is, is guilty of delaying the ball in at the first opportunity on the break.  

 

In essence, there are two styles of play we can go with

 

1) A high tempo, high pressure game 

2) A low tempo, counter attacking game

 

I would go with the second because it is more likely that we can stay in games with this strategy. Then try and break when the opportunity arises. 

 

I don't disagree with what you say I think success for us is somewhere in the middle. The only area i question is you say it's impossible to hunt in packs, I disagree for the following reason. It's been done already by the Chelsea, Arsenal, Swansea and Southampton. Admittedly they all have better players.

They do it by taking breathers and then come to life with a sustained high tempo high pressure games for 10 minutes or so. Even if there not getting success they'll suck the opposition in close and then switch out wide quickly. Trying to get a goal attempt that way.

But ours have proved that they can play a passing game because thats what we done for the most part last season. I'd like to see it with Drinky, Hammond Albrighton Ulloa on the right. And Cambi Schlupp Mahrez and Nugent on the left. With Ulloa and Nugent taking up the CF position in the box while the other is supporting the group.  This I feel would give us more options in possession going forward. obviously without the ball they all take up there defensive positions. I hope you can follow my thinking. Enjoy todays game.