Zingari Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 You cant see the wind but you you can feel it on your skin.Its easy to say 'God dont exist cos i cant see him/her" Well how about proving that he/she DOESNT exist???? I am religous and i do believe in a higher state,whether its a god like being or not im not sure but i believe that the way the galaxy etc (The formation of the earth and how the sun,moon all effect it in such perfect motion...etc...) has been formed in such perfection it cant be a coincidence. I couldnt give a fcuk if people dont believe in God,likewise i dont agree with those who go door knocking to 'spread the word of god' If people want to believe in god,they will find something to believe in. The idea of living cant just be about getting pissed,shagging about,eating,puking,money and being a twat. People use religion to start trouble but no true religion would say "we are the only one to believe in and the rest are shit" People interprete things the wrong way in order to justify their own shit"ie Allah stold me if id kill 100 people id go to heaven and shag loads of virgins"...Load of bollox! Ask yourself this non believers....When you find yourself in a circumstance in which you fear the worst,what do you say??? I bet alot of you would say a little prayer or a silent "oh God" (i know i did at Stoke in the last few minutes and i saw alot of others with similar such thoughts!) yes they do !! all the fookin time ,
skinnydipper Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 I'm a hypocrite. I'm religious when I really want something e.g exam passes,jobs, and lottery wins I'm atheist when praying for the above doesn't achieve the required results I'm agnostic the rest of the time. I believe in a god but people who think that you'll burn in hell if you don't believe in their god really get on my tits Hypocritism; it's the new religion
Daggers Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 There is a God, no doubt about it! Proof? well i cant tell you that, i never will be able to either, nor will anyone ever.God made me the way i am and i am proud to be who i am, whatever has come my way and things that has happened in my life. Religions have always fought, no disputing that, but so have the 'athiests' aswel. Also with religion seemingly in decline, up goes the rate in crime, sexual health, adultery amongst other things. The sense of 'communities' is vastly dissapearing and everyone is growing up to dislike each other. Although not christianed and i do not go to church or read the bible, i do believe in God and it is God for which is the reason we are here today. Linking irreligiosity to crime is simply non-sensical: forced rape, butchering, torturing, genocide and paedophilia have all been carried out in the name of and justified by religion. The barbaric nature of "believers", blinkered by their one true faith, is astonishing in its primal nature. I am assuming that you are refering to Chirstianity when you refer to religion, linking that drop in numbers attending church with a decline in modern society as a 1:1 correlation is fatuous. Not only that, but you have absolutely no supporting evidence for your claims which are wrong. Crime and sexual health have not increased. The Middle Ages was a time of rampant Christianity in this country and yet gonorrhea killed the most devout - are you seriously trying to say that your god punishes society if everyone doesn't conform and that the punishment is meted out on a sliding scale of apparent %population believing? Africa is a continent of high religiosity - and yet it is striven with Aids, HIV and chancroid - by your argument they must be suffering for the non-belief of others? Or is it your zealous god punishing people for believing in the wrong one? People ascribe a god to fill in the void of their understanding, using it like some magic brush to cover over flaws in arguments and logic. It simply doesn't hold sway. You cant see the wind but you you can feel it on your skin.Its easy to say 'God dont exist cos i cant see him/her" Well how about proving that he/she DOESNT exist???? I am religous and i do believe in a higher state,whether its a god like being or not im not sure but i believe that the way the galaxy etc (The formation of the earth and how the sun,moon all effect it in such perfect motion...etc...) has been formed in such perfection it cant be a coincidence. I couldnt give a fcuk if people dont believe in God,likewise i dont agree with those who go door knocking to 'spread the word of god' If people want to believe in god,they will find something to believe in. The idea of living cant just be about getting pissed,shagging about,eating,puking,money and being a twat. People use religion to start trouble but no true religion would say "we are the only one to believe in and the rest are shit" People interprete things the wrong way in order to justify their own shit"ie Allah stold me if id kill 100 people id go to heaven and shag loads of virgins"...Load of bollox! Ask yourself this non believers....When you find yourself in a circumstance in which you fear the worst,what do you say??? I bet alot of you would say a little prayer or a silent "oh God" (i know i did at Stoke in the last few minutes and i saw alot of others with similar such thoughts!) Sorry Raj - your opening ditty is nothing more than trite guff. Denying the existence of a god goes way beyond simply not being able to see one. Conversely, it is the absense of arguemtn and evidence that typifies the believers approach to any debate. Define the "perfection" of the Universe? What exactly is perfect about it that can not be explained scientifically?
Dr The Singh Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 yes they do !! all the fookin time , Not all my friend, Sikhism doesn't! I'm a Sikh, not a totally practicing one!! I think alot of people relate religion to mostly 'abrahamic faiths', which are very missionary etc!! Concept of Sikhism and Sikhsim philosophy is quite different from other faiths, it does not say it's the only way, Sikhism wasn't made for SIkhs but for all mankind!! Religion is a personal thing, those that believe in a 'superior concious' or superior concsious state it's there chioce!! Religion has nothing to do with intelligence and it's anot a pre-requisite for a person to 'good'!! Unfortunately mankind has used religion or god as a tool for themselves!!!
Daggers Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 Not all my friend, Sikhism doesn't! Sorry - yes it does. The Muslim and the Sikh communities in Birmingham are forever complaining about the "messianic" nature of the other and how members of their faith are being converted to the other. This may be nothing more than apocryphal carpings but it still means that their is a superiority being claimed by implication.
Zingari Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 Not all my friend, Sikhism doesn't!I'm a Sikh, not a totally practicing one!! I think alot of people relate religion to mostly 'abrahamic faiths', which are very missionary etc!! Concept of Sikhism and Sikhsim philosophy is quite different from other faiths, it does not say it's the only way, Sikhism wasn't made for SIkhs but for all mankind!! Religion is a personal thing, those that believe in a 'superior concious' or superior concsious state it's there chioce!! Religion has nothing to do with intelligence and it's anot a pre-requisite for a person to 'good'!! Unfortunately mankind has used religion or god as a tool for themselves!!! i'm not knocking any particular religion , far from it , but have you not stated (with some pride) that Sikhs are a "warrior" nation or culture, and teaches its adherents some form of "martial" arts ( something like that anyway , but excuse me if you said nothing like that )
Dr The Singh Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 i'm not knocking any particular religion , far from it , but have you not stated (with some pride) that Sikhs are a "warrior" nation or culture, and teaches its adherents some form of "martial" arts ( something like that anyway , but excuse me if you said nothing like that ) Not all my friend, Sikh philosphy stems for the oneness of mankind, it does not care what colour, race, sex, religion a person is, as we are all one, the importance of being a good human being is key and the 'Granth' is the of many guide's in doing that. Hence SIkhs have always stood up against tyranical forces. The martial aspects is another aspect of the faith, a SIkh should always be ready as a last resort to fight tyranny!! Sikhs have always fought for others, Guru Nanak once said, fighting for religion is wrong, fighting for truth is just!!!
Dr The Singh Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 What really pee's me off, is those who say they are part of a religious community and yet they don't know why, or have any knowledge about the religion!!! How can you believe in something you know fook all about!!!!
Manwell Pablo Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 Of course not... but the trend is certainly true. Obviously there are intelligent, religious people and stupid, non-religious people. But 699 in 700 top scientists can't be wrong! Ha, you'd better hope they aren't, otherwise it's hell for you my boy, and an enternity of being gang raped by Patrick Viera, Theiry Henry and "Willy" Gallas whilst being heckled by Arsene Wenger.
blue blood Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 are we talking beyond time and space here? not exactly no..
blue blood Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 Of course not... but the trend is certainly true. Obviously there are intelligent, religious people and stupid, non-religious people. But 699 in 700 top scientists can't be wrong! thats the key word right there me old mucker
Daggers Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 thats the key word right there me old mucker Which means?
Trav Le Bleu Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 What really pee's me off, is those who say they are part of a religious community and yet they don't know why, or have any knowledge about the religion!!! How can you believe in something you know fook all about!!!! Spot on Singh. Such people can even prove dangerous (it's usually these types who get talked into radical factions and do stupid and horrific things in the name of god )
Daggers Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 How can you believe in something you know fook all about!!!! Spot on Singh. Such people can even prove dangerous But you both believe in something that doesn't exist, has no evidence supporting its existence and therefore has nothing that can be known. You get represented on phone-in's, have your say in making the laws of the country, get asked to comment on major events in society and dictate what and how children are taught - I think believers of all hues are dangerous.
The People's Hero Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 Dawkins - The God Delusion. Thracian - The art of attacking football. Those are my bibles.
MikeyT Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 Atheist for me. Although my philosophy is "You can't prove God exists and I can't prove he doesn't".
Dr The Singh Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 But you both believe in something that doesn't exist, has no evidence supporting its existence and therefore has nothing that can be known.You get represented on phone-in's, have your say in making the laws of the country, get asked to comment on major events in society and dictate what and how children are taught - I think believers of all hues are dangerous. Just because there no concrete evidence to suggest a 'supreme conscious' or being exist does not mean it doesn't exist. As beings we are still in the infancy of knowledge, it's a fact that we do not know what happens to the 'energy' (cus we are energy) when we die. There are many unanswered questions, only theories exists, one is that there is a force that controls our existance!! If there is no god, I still stand proud of those people from my kin that have given so mcuh under the umbrella of Sikhism!!!
The People's Hero Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 Atheist for me.Although my philosophy is "You can't prove God exists and I can't prove he doesn't". But evidence suggests he does NOT exist, therefore the responsibility of proving OTHERWISE lies with believers. Unfortunately, this is where faith comes in to it and all scientific, reasonable, logical discussion goes out the window. Still, each to their own!
Number 6 Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 A mathematician believes nothing until it is proven. A physicist believes everything until it is proven wrong. A chemist doesn't care. Biologists don't understand the question.
Daggers Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 Just because there no evidence to suggest a 'supreme conscious' or being exist does not mean it doesn;t exist. As beings we are still in the infancy of knowledge, it's a fact that we do not know what happens to the 'energy' (cus we are energy) when we die. There are many unanswered questions, only theories exists, one is that there is a force that controls our existance!!If there is no god, I still stand proud of those people from my kin that have given so mcuh under the umbrella of Sikhism!!! You support an argument for the existence of a deity on the back of Einstein's theory of relativity? Einstein who denounced the existence of a god. A theory is a testable proposition, either through experiment or empirical observation - there is no 'theory of god'. Religion grabs bits of science that it likes and rejects out of hand all of the bits that run contrary to its existence. We know, and can measure, exactly what happens to the energy contained within a body when it dies; What you are alluding to, I suspect, is 'spirit'. Your reference to the altruistic-based part of your faith is dealt with in an excellent manner by Dawkins in The God Delusion with reference back to The Selfish Gene...and I'll not bother copy-pasting the large chunks or text here but would commend its reading. The argument he presents against the existence of a deity is hugely compelling and history provides us with even more compelling arguments against organised religion. "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Daggers Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 Still, each to their own! Oh if that were the case - but it isn't and this is why religion has to be argued against. Primary children 'learn' about the Nativity, they get taught to pray and are indoctrinated from an early age into the faith of their parents and/or community. Nothing happens within society without un-elected religious leaders commenting and trying to impose their belief system. If there was a separation of church and state then there wouldn't be a problem.
The People's Hero Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 Oh if that were the case - but it isn't and this is why religion has to be argued against.Primary children 'learn' about the Nativity, they get taught to pray and are indoctrinated from an early age into the faith of their parents and/or community. Nothing happens within society without un-elected religious leaders commenting and trying to impose their belief system. If there was a separation of church and state then there wouldn't be a problem. Agreed. We're reading from the same hymn sheet.
MikeyT Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 At the end of the day i dont profess to really know anything about religion. All i know is, is that people are free to believe in what they want to believe in just as long as i dont get their religious views shoved down my throat and people trying to tell me what i should or should not believe. Like a few of the previous posters have mentioned of which i 100% agree is, each to their own!
Daggers Posted 13 June 2008 Posted 13 June 2008 At the end of the day i dont profess to really know anything about religion. All i know is, is that people are free to believe in what they want to believe in just as long as i dont get their religious views shoved down my throat and people trying to tell me what i should or should not believe. Like a few of the previous posters have mentioned of which i 100% agree is, each to their own! You believe that? You believe that religion isn't fed to and at you on a daily basis? There isn't an aspect of your life that organised religions don't believe they have a right to have an input on. What The Papers Say »Displaying results 1-25 of 14107 “Faith leaders” tighten their stranglehold on “faith schools”Daily Mail, 13 June 2008Gordon Brown “woos religious voters”Telegraph, 13 June 2008UK religious fanatics are turning their children into potential killersTelegraph, 13 June 2008Noise row church bells could be silencedEADT24, 13 June 2008Europe’s last “witch” pardoned by stateScotsman, 13 June 2008Is the notion that religious believers are unintelligent racist?Guardian, 13 June 2008Patients need proper care, not euthanasiaTelegraph, 13 June 2008Parliament has failed to protect one of our most fundamental rightsTelegraph, 13 June 2008On Friday 13th is there any rational basis for superstition?Scotsman, 13 June 2008Religious clashes erupt in IndiaBBC, 13 June 2008Irish religious schools retain right to discriminate in employmentIrish Examiner, 13 June 2008The Daily Telegraph’s utterly predictable take on atheismTelegraph, 13 June 2008Allah and the non-existence of any other deityGulf Times, 13 June 2008Tony Blair talks about religion (does he ever talk about anything else?)Reporter News, 13 June 2008Interfaith “gabfests” proliferate, as do religious warsEconomist, 13 June 20087Netherlands religious observance statistics – take with a pinch of saltNIS, 13 June 2008Religion is no longer the monopoly of the Right in USA, now it poisons all politicsScotsman, 13 June 2008Faith schools expand, while choice for non-believers contractsCroydon Guardian, 12 June 2008Suicide bombs are about religion, not polticisIndependent, 12 June 2008Christian service "sends emails from the dead"Telegraph, 12 June 2008Obama targets the religious rightTelegraph, 12 June 2008Clever people don't believe in God - studyTelegraph, 12 June 2008EU looks for way round Irish vote on Lisbon treatyTelegraph, 12 June 2008Al-Qaeda unravelsNew Republic, 12 June 2008More "interfaith" conflict as Catholicism says West is "obsessed with Islam"Times, 12 June 2008
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