Daggers Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 Alot of generalisations are being made about religions and the religious, we shouldn't tarnish all with the same stick!! 'No-one is above question' SGGS!!! If I were to type in exclusions for every scenario I'd be here for a sodding long time. If we look at the bulk of the world's religious population the Christians and the Muslims count for the bulk on them and the major institutions and the majority of the followers reject open debate and favour unquestioned silence. You are just a loveable little tyke.
Dr The Singh Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 If I were to type in exclusions for every scenario I'd be here for a sodding long time. If we look at the bulk of the world's religious population the Christians and the Muslims count for the bulk on them and the major institutions and the majority of the followers reject open debate and favour unquestioned silence.You are just a loveable little tyke. I love you two Daggers, I can't wait to see you again, I have a 'proud to be a Sikh' T-Shirt that's just your size.....and it's in red, Leicester City Red!!!! I understand, I will take all points dictated at 'Abhramic' Faiths, unless stated!!!
Daggers Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 I love you two Daggers, I can't wait to see you again, I have a 'proud to be a Sikh' T-Shirt that's just your size.....and it's in red, Leicester City Red!!!!
Flynny Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 I would to say evolution is proven. I would to say there is a difference in the arguments put forward by religious people and atheists. Religion always ignored science, until it realised it could no longer, and so tried to incorporate it into the scheme of things. That, to me, is ridiculous, but I understand people who want to see it the religious way. I always thought religion was a want, i.e people want to believe it sometimes more than they actually do. I don't feel any comfort believing that when I die I am gone forever, to me it makes life seem pretty pointless. It's also horrible to think that I will have to say bye to so many loved ones throughout my life. It's for these reasons I envy people with faith and why I wouldn't want to take it away from them. Was the word you missed out "hesitate"? Go on, explain. Personally I find it comforting that this isn't a test, and comforting to think that this is our only shot at it. There's a certain freedom that boundaries provide, and I'm aware that this sounds desperately wanky and pretentious, but I don't care. If I thought that I had endless goes at life, or that I was going to paradise or heaven when I died, where would be the incentive to live my life to the full? I find it much more comforting to think that there isn't a cosmic grandad quietly tutting every time a have a wank, for that matter. It's overly simplifying things to suggest that atheists don't think about the profound. The thing I find the most sad is when relgious people limit themselves because they think that by living a life of devotion and prayer they're gaining access to something bigger and better. It might comfort them, but it's a huge limiter as well. Religion in general I find to be a huge barrier to the fulfilment of human potential.
Flynny Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 Big generalisation, not all do!!! If I remember rightly from paying zero attention in Sikhism at GCSE and still sneaking a B, Sikhism more than allows for evolution, is that right? Something about 4,000,000 kinds of creature seems to be rattling around in a dusty drawer at the back of my mind.
Dr The Singh Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 If I remember rightly from paying zero attention in Sikhism at GCSE and still sneaking a B, Sikhism more than allows for evolution, is that right? Something about 4,000,000 kinds of creature seems to be rattling around in a dusty drawer at the back of my mind. Sikhism isn't scientific as such but it's the only 'mainstream' religion that supports 'big bang', in the SGGS it's written that the universe was created from one spark in which created worlds upon worlds!! They were created from the Void, and they will merge into the Void. SGGS In terms of evolution it states life was created form water, all species having the common link but each life form has a distinct role in the world in which all is in synergy!!! The SGGS staes that there are 840,000 species in this world!! I can't remember of the top of my head but in the SGGS it states that there are, I thnk 8 core species from which all other species come !!
Daggers Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 The SGGS staes that there are 840,000 species in this world... I don't believe you. Name them.
Daggers Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 No!!! Typical. Ask someone to support their faith with fact and this is what always happens...
Dr The Singh Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 Typical. Ask someone to support their faith with fact and this is what always happens... The SGGS isn't that kind of religious book, it's not about facts or figures it's about the message\relationship between man and god!!!
Number 6 Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 Was the word you missed out "hesitate"? Go on, explain.Personally I find it comforting that this isn't a test, and comforting to think that this is our only shot at it. There's a certain freedom that boundaries provide, and I'm aware that this sounds desperately wanky and pretentious, but I don't care. If I thought that I had endless goes at life, or that I was going to paradise or heaven when I died, where would be the incentive to live my life to the full? I find it much more comforting to think that there isn't a cosmic grandad quietly tutting every time a have a wank, for that matter. It's overly simplifying things to suggest that atheists don't think about the profound. The thing I find the most sad is when relgious people limit themselves because they think that by living a life of devotion and prayer they're gaining access to something bigger and better. It might comfort them, but it's a huge limiter as well. Religion in general I find to be a huge barrier to the fulfilment of human potential. fair point. It's good that you see it that way. It's the House view . I guess there are two sides to it all.
l444ry Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 Einstein's Theory Disproven. Scientists at the NASA Space Centre For Calculations And That today revealed that Einstein's Theory Of Relativity has, in fact, no basis in reality and that the 'Theory' was conceived by no less than the World-Renowned Crystallographist and Medium, Swami Genghis Tentacles. Professor Steed Bowler-Hat, a leading expert in the field of Entropic Forgeries, confirmed that the original manuscript which Einstein 'submitted' to the World Science Bugle And Telegraph was, in fact, written in a type of crayon not invented until 1943, and therefore must have been written by someone else with a Time Machine - in all probability a 'Jensen History Explorer' model, with a Wireless Beeping Thing on the top. Bowler-Hat explained (in Martian) that Swami Tentacles had been the subject of a hate-mail campaign - by Einstein - since 1904, when Einstein himself showed up at the Guru's house on top of Mount Everest with a crate of cheap Cooking Sherry, offering to 'have him out', and claiming that the Swami 'had nits'. Since The Wise Man had been heavily combed the day before, this allegation clearly had no basis in reality. Professor Hat further revealed that it has long been an issue amongst Physicists that, although the Theory Of Relativity accounted for 99.9% of phenomena in the Observable Universe, it did not explain how the planets remain in orbit without the aid of string. Calculations performed in 1955 at the Cyclotron Center For Huge Calculations in Nevada, Canada, suggest that, in fact, Einstein was in error in his original computations by a factor of Fifty Thousand, and that this would explain why he could never find his garage in the dark. A spokesman for Interpol said that no charges would be brought against any members of Einstein's remaining family in connection with the forgery allegations, since 'they are all hiding somewhere'. A further twist in the tale was the admission by Bowler-Hat that he 'didn't care', and that in fact he 'didn't know what the hell everyone was talking about'. A team of White-Haired Psychyatrists, all with German accents and holding pendulums, were flown in from Geneva and declared the Professor 'a bit sort of off it'. On receipt of gargantuan fees they revised their diagnosis to 'there's nothing wrong with him'. Readers interested in the controversy, which continues to rage despite liberal consumption by the antagonists of bottles of 'Dr. Synclavier's Nerve Balsam', may like to visit Prof. Bowler-Hat's website at [email protected]. The site includes a downloadable knitting pattern for an 'Einstein Mad Hair Wig' and details of how to construct a Thermonuclear Device from the springs found inside an ordinary living-room sofa.
Bert Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 Why? (I'm only half serious) Also: if you believe that the existance of god is impossible to prove but as likely as something entirely ridiculous and made-up (Flying Spaghetti Monster?), is that Agnosticism? Because, when I'm not at Leicester I always get a game as It's Saturdays, and some of my mates play too. I believe there is a god, but whether i believe in him is a different thing.
Flynny Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 fair point.It's good that you see it that way. It's the House view . I guess there are two sides to it all. Ahh, I do love a bit of House. Are we agreeing to disagree then? I didn't agree to that.
Number 6 Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 Ahh, I do love a bit of House.Are we agreeing to disagree then? I didn't agree to that. we could agree to disagree to agree, or something like that.
Raj Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 My last post on this ... Unless you've been in a situation/situations where spiritualisation/god realisation is the only avenue left for you,then it would be hard for some people to even think about such an idea. My family have had their lives turned around (for the better!) cos of faith. It may not be religion but its defo Faith/spiritualisation by ways of meditation and 'living the right way' I woudn't expect a non believer to start believing just by reading a forum,likewise i wouldnt dispel my ideas just cos of people who dont believe in it either. Surely if it gives a person a direction/meaning in life it can only be a good thing? I just hope that people lives dont get to a stage when the last resort is faith/religion.
StroudFox Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 Why should religion be any different to any other aspect of belief? If you entered a thread stating that you believed Gordon Brown to be the best Prime Minister we have ever had and that you believe he offers the best solution for the future you would (more like as not) be asked to justify your statement with fact and make an argument in order to be taken seriously.The religious seem to feel that their faith is above question, a sacrosanct area beyond criticism. It isn't, it is an aspect of life like any other. I am perfectly happy to debate my atheism without taking comments personally - how come this is never reciprocal? Have I said that religion is beyond criticism? I am happy to debate things but certain people appear very judgemental about religion and are very strong in their views against which is fine but some are very personal comments. i am not quite sure what I have said that has created your response!! I am neither defensive nor attacking in my comments!
Daggers Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 Surely if it gives a person a direction/meaning in life it can only be a good thing? You're a lovely bloke Raj and your faith brings you comfort - no one would begrudge you that - but the argument that religion is a good thing because it brings comfort and support to those who believe is easy to put across until you consider all of those to whom religion brings no comfort and support at all. The barbers in Iran? Currently, thanks to religion, they are being hounded out of business or being physically attacked for giving young men rebellious hairstyles. Homosexuals? They have been targeted for hate and vilification by preachers and their congregations in the Mid-West. The Spanish Inquisition? The slaughter of the indigenous populations of South America? The Balkan War? The Middle East? The C.16 & C.17 persecution of Catholics in England? Witch trials? 9/11? Slavery? The Crusades?
davieG Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 You're a lovely bloke Raj and your faith brings you comfort - no one would begrudge you that - but the argument that religion is a good thing because it brings comfort and support to those who believe is easy to put across until you consider all of those to whom religion brings no comfort and support at all.The barbers in Iran? Currently, thanks to religion, they are being hounded out of business or being physically attacked for giving young men rebellious hairstyles. Homosexuals? They have been targeted for hate and vilification by preachers and their congregations in the Mid-West. The Spanish Inquisition? The slaughter of the indigenous populations of South America? The Balkan War? The Middle East? The C.16 & C.17 persecution of Catholics in England? Witch trials? 9/11? Slavery? The Crusades? So! just a few teething problems, they'll get it right in the end.
Raj Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 You're a lovely bloke Raj and your faith brings you comfort - no one would begrudge you that - but the argument that religion is a good thing because it brings comfort and support to those who believe is easy to put across until you consider all of those to whom religion brings no comfort and support at all.The barbers in Iran? Currently, thanks to religion, they are being hounded out of business or being physically attacked for giving young men rebellious hairstyles. Homosexuals? They have been targeted for hate and vilification by preachers and their congregations in the Mid-West. The Spanish Inquisition? The slaughter of the indigenous populations of South America? The Balkan War? The Middle East? The C.16 & C.17 persecution of Catholics in England? Witch trials? 9/11? Slavery? The Crusades? I understand that but surely thats the way certain minorities within each religion(ie the fundamentalists) teach to the ill informed or those whom they know they can attract to do their dirty work ie the Muslim fundos who get young men as suicide bombers with promises of young virgins in heaven? As i said David i aint got the answers and on a head to head discussion with you about religion id lose hands down. All im trying to say is that if religion keeps some people on the straight and narrow,abit like going to watch City on a cold Saturday afternoon to watch the mighty MK Dons it cant ALL be THAT bad can it??
Raj Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 Men start wars, religion is only the excuse. Big time true!
l444ry Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 Big time true! At 4.32pm you posted here saying it was your last post on the matter,Raj. Is this you, an imposter or have you been reincarnated?
NorthernFox Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 In a perfect world we could all be free to believe/follow/have faith in whichever idol/god etc that we chose to without fear of persecution or prejudice. I am happy for anybody to do this but I do get a bit miffed when we stand by and allow certain individuals/faiths/organisations to preach / incite hatred just for a difference of opinion. Life is way too short.....
Daggers Posted 16 June 2008 Posted 16 June 2008 I understand that but surely thats the way certain minorities within each religion(ie the fundamentalists) teach to the ill informed or those whom they know they can attract to do their dirty work ie the Muslim fundos who get young men as suicide bombers with promises of young virgins in heaven?As i said David i aint got the answers and on a head to head discussion with you about religion id lose hands down. All im trying to say is that if religion keeps some people on the straight and narrow,abit like going to watch City on a cold Saturday afternoon to watch the mighty MK Dons it cant ALL be THAT bad can it?? It's not bad for you - it's diabolical for those who become convinced their way of believing is the only way, and then to carry out acts "In the name of..." The serial covering up of child abuse by the Catholic church and the Pope? The banning of women and homosexuals from the pulpit by the CofE? I'm happy it makes you happy, but I just can't accept that it "can't be all that bad" because I reckon it is. Sorry bud. Coffee is on me next time
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