Tom12345

Why didn’t we get Moyes? Look at Everton now.

I think Cooper recognised the weakness in our squad and played accordingly. My issue with him was that he didn’t have a winner’s mentality. But at least his focus on playing on one side of the pitch only helped to shore up our defence and also helped with us having numbers in attack (albeit on one side), given our deficiencies. The squad didn’t like it as they thought they are champions playing in the Championship. RVN is too one dimensional with his structure. He does recognise the different profiles within the squad which is what I like about him, but he is unfortunately clueless in how to get the best out of the squad and insist on playing the width of the pitch like Man Utd. We don’t have the players for that. Playing in that way, our squad is simply not good enough compared to other teams, but I blame his tactics. I was not a fan of Cooper either but I was supportive of giving him more time. Presently, we just keep giving silly goals away - our defence is just championship standard - and we don’t have any ability to score goals.

It seems afterall we are not in a position to impose an identity. We just need some points. Now we are getting none. I think part of the problem was that we had Maresca who was very stubborn with imposing his style and identity, and the players was stuck with that and did not trust Cooper from the start culminating in that weekend away with Winks holding on to that ‘Enzo we miss you’ sign. Who knows if Enzo stayed though - it is very different playing in the EPL compared to the Championship. In any event, given that, Cooper was doomed from the start without that trust from the beginning. But if not for individual players - Faes and Justin in particular making all sorts of defensive mistakes, we would have gotten more points under Cooper even though he has kept us above the relegation zone much of the time. And also, we looked like scoring in each game - we just couldn’t keep a clean sheet. And yes, at the time, we thought we could do even better than what Cooper was delivering. But oh boy none of us could have predicted that we have turned this bad - 6 home games without points and without goals. Really can’t be worst.

I don’t know mate, but I have given up this season. I feel genuinely we deserve relegation. Before Cooper left, yes I was frustrated too but it was more because of how I felt we could do better and be mid-table. Now I am just in despair because we genuinely look shxt.

I think RVN can be a good manager. His ideas and the way he talks are elite level and you can see the team generally improving. But the team is so average that it is hard for RVN to produce elite results using an average squad. Cooper on the other hand was pragmatic. He didn’t impose a style that endeared to fans but he produced results. Understood the team is average and he needed to play one sided football (literally) to narrow the pitch so as to compensate. Yes it was not pretty to some and we played only one winger when the fans were screaming for both (including me for a short while actually) but in hindsight I say he was right. If we tried to replicate other teams and try to play free flowing attacking football using the whole width of the pitch, we would come out losing every game (just like under RVN). Cooper always made us look like scoring every game but our defence was just crap beyond repair - individual errors from Faes and Justin in particular lost us so many points. Both were not Cooper signings. Okoli by the way looks good.

I would agree with you. And it is hard to argue against it really. We can’t really do worst than the results under RVN.

I like this.

Soumare and Winks could definitely be better, but look at the calamitous defending against Everton. The positioning of Vesty was atrocious for the first two goals. He was standing too far left and outside their attacker. He should have been aware where our goal is and position himself accordingly. Evans was an expert on this. Plus Evans also positions himself to cover for his CB partner. Both Faes and Vesty are constantly out of position and do not cover for each other. We are so easy to play through (or lob through for christ’s sake) because of our CBs. I still remember we were a rock at the back with Morgan and Huth and also Fofana and Evans (until Fofana got his injury). And then the third goal. The ball literally went through a tiny gap between Vesty and Faes.

So essentially poor decisions from 2021-22 costed us.

Absolutely, from prime position. It was so fixable too at the time but Rodgers was too stubborn and too risk averse. The club gambled but trusted the wrong guy. Another key factor was losing Fofana at the beginning of 2021/22 (?) in that pointless pre season friendly. I thought we genuinely looked like a champion contender with Fofana and the players we had. After he was injured, we panicked bought Vesty (but then never used) and later Faes (leaking goals) and Souttar (never used), wasted millions and we started to leak goals left right and center. We still have those three players on our books.

I guess if you asked me 10 years ago if I would prefer to be CHAMPIONS one season in exchange for 10 years of downward spiral, I would have taken it. The memory shall be treasured forever.

Sorry, this is not about new CBs signed. But we ought to try Okoli and Coady now as the CB pairing. They can’t do worst. Faes is prone to make mistakes game after game and constantly out of position resulting in the need to chase. Vesty is way too slow and also often out of position. The two of them don’t complement each other. Justin has to be dropped. Yes he does pop forward but he is contributing to a lot of our conceded goals this season. Fix the defence first with what we have to give ourselves even a chance at getting something from each game.

… yeah, they were really shocking that the only way to make sense of these mistakes is that they were intentional I guess, you are right

2 years ago, our squad did not deserve to be relegated, but the seeds were there with Rodgers and Faes. 2 years later, our team is genuinely shxt and we still have Faes. Vesty, although I like him more after last season, is still way too slow and positionally crap to be a PL defender. He was at Southampton when we beat them 9-0. Can’t run and gets turned too easily. He was responsible for the first two goals for standing outside of the Everton forward. Our problem is that we spent millions on a defence that is so poor. Added Justin who can’t defend. There is a reason why Cooper chose to focus on one winger and play on one side of the pitch because at least we can have a better defence. We can’t play too open like RVN as it is being shown to be the case in hindsight especially without the wingers to do it.

Our problem starts with a leaky defence, from the time Rodgers spent millions on Vesty (and even he didn’t use him) and Faes (he has been consistently leaky). Okoli and Coady can’t be worst. I like Vesty as a ball player, but he needs to be partnered with someone like Morgan or Evans, not leaky and positionally unaware Faes.

See ya. i am off

Disgusted. How shxt can we be? As predicted last week after we beat Spurs, we won’t be Everton. But 3-0???!

Why is Faes a few yards behind and Vesty is not Premier League level.

What an absolute embarrassment! We need a completely new back four. Faes, Vesty and Justin have no bloody idea. RVN is no better than Cooper. No attacking threat. What a fuxking disaster of a match.

This is embarrassing so far.

What the hell happened? I am late to the game and 2-0 already after 2 shots on goal from Everton?

Turnover from Everton. Pass to Vardy with only one man in front. Why the hell did he pass it back? Weak.

This will be a tougher game against Spurs. Spurs have traditionally destroyed us in terms of our scoring us, but they are always vulnerable in terms of defense. We could carve them open especially this time because of the number of players they missed. Everton is a different proposition. They are harder for us to break down. We find it hard to break down teams sitting back. But this is massive for us. If we can get a result, we can start looking to sustain a period of floating just above water.

Unfair comment I think. Soumare has always shown signs of his brilliance since he joined us, but he was not allowed to grow with people very quickly getting on his back. He has a much higher ceiling than many in the squad.

With Everton pulling away, there is only one other candidate we can chase : Wolves. Not looking good.