Benguin Posted 6 April 2015 Posted 6 April 2015 Romans 1:20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God. EDIT: i'd love to ad more to this discussion but im still at work and its been a crazy day at work and ill be going home shortly to a 2 year old a 6 week old and a sick wife! Ermmmmmmmmmmmmmmm You are backing up my point!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I am not talking about belief in GOD. The analogy depicts how the boy can not choose Jesus, not God! No where in that Bible verse does it explain how someone can find Jesus in a place suppressed of this information.
fleckneymike Posted 6 April 2015 Posted 6 April 2015 Ermmmmmmmmmmmmmmm You are backing up my point!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I am not talking about belief in GOD. The analogy depicts how the boy can not choose Jesus, not God! No where in that Bible verse does it explain how someone can find Jesus in a place suppressed of this information. And again we return to predesitination.
fleckneymike Posted 6 April 2015 Posted 6 April 2015 The bible teaches us that the only way to God is through Jesus. It also teaches us about this freewill over choice that we arguing about. Tell me how a person born in an Islamic country, before the internet existed, whose whole family are subscribed to the Muslim faith, is blind, death and socially inept can find and choose Jesus? Tell me why it is illegal to try and convert Muslims to Christianity in certain countries? Surely God is giving the children of these places a very unfair shot at making the right choice? There is NO choice. I am not trying to argue whether as a Christian you are right, this can never be concluded but I am trying to argue that you can not choose to believe. It is not possible. In the Quran?
Benguin Posted 6 April 2015 Posted 6 April 2015 And again we return to predesitination. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? This part of Christian theology is flawed. If God has ordained all that will happen then my original point that we do not have a choice is correct!
Benguin Posted 6 April 2015 Posted 6 April 2015 In the Quran? Yes but the Quran does not state that Jesus is the only way to God. Again not sure what you are trying to argue?
fleckneymike Posted 6 April 2015 Posted 6 April 2015 I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? This part of Christian theology is flawed. If God has ordained all that will happen then my original point that we do not have a choice is correct! All views on predestination?
Benguin Posted 6 April 2015 Posted 6 April 2015 All views on predestination? Can you clarify your posts a bit more mate? Do you mean all religions? Predestination is a Christian Doctrine all though I imagine it had popped up elsewhere. Or are you saying that my post was predestined?
fleckneymike Posted 6 April 2015 Posted 6 April 2015 Yes but the Quran does not state that Jesus is the only way to God. Again not sure what you are trying to argue? You claimed that a person in an Islamic country couldn't find Jesus, yet he appears in the Quran something like 100 times. It is not inconceivable that someone encountering the 'prophet' Jesus may also be drawn to him. However believing Jesus is the only way to God is only one Christian belief (Sola Christus I think) and not one shared by all branches of Christianity. What you are attempting to do is establish a debate which is infact not a debate as you have decided on some exceptionally narrow parameters to maintain your argument. I have no 'faith' myself but even I can appreciate how and why believers hold certain viewpoints.
Benguin Posted 6 April 2015 Posted 6 April 2015 You claimed that a person in an Islamic country couldn't find Jesus, yet he appears in the Quran something like 100 times. It is not inconceivable that someone encountering the 'prophet' Jesus may also be drawn to him. However believing Jesus is the only way to God is only one Christian belief (Sola Christus I think) and not one shared by all branches of Christianity. What you are attempting to do is establish a debate which is infact not a debate as you have decided on some exceptionally narrow parameters to maintain your argument. I have no 'faith' myself but even I can appreciate how and why believers hold certain viewpoints. No, in fact I am arguing a very simple debate that people are taking on tangents. The debate I started was; Christians say that belief in God is a choice. The reason I am passionate about this debate is because it made me fall out with a few loved ones. One of my family members believes that when judgement day comes, God will resurrect the dead and if they are found in the book of life will go to heaven and if they are not they will burn in Hell for all of eternity. This view is share by a large amount of Christians (Not all of course I know the Catholic church to name one disagrees) The problem with this is because I haven't "Chosen" to believe, I am not in the book of life so my family member believes I will be off to Hell. I argue that I have not been given a choice because of all the things I have listed in this thread. The reason it is such a passionate debate for me is that I fell out with this family member because he worships someone that is going to condemn me to Hell according to him.
fleckneymike Posted 6 April 2015 Posted 6 April 2015 No, in fact I am arguing a very simple debate that people are taking on tangents. The debate I started was; Christians say that belief in God is a choice. The reason I am passionate about this debate is because it made me fall out with a few loved ones. One of my family members believes that when judgement day comes, God will resurrect the dead and if they are found in the book of life will go to heaven and if they are not they will burn in Hell for all of eternity. This view is share by a large amount of Christians (Not all of course I know the Catholic church to name one disagrees) The problem with this is because I haven't "Chosen" to believe, I am not in the book of life so my family member believes I will be off to Hell. I argue that I have not been given a choice because of all the things I have listed in this thread. The reason it is such a passionate debate for me is that I fell out with this family member because he worships someone that is going to condemn me to Hell according to him. Then your issue isn't with 'Christianity' but with one narrow interpretation of it held by a person you know and you'd be better served having a theological discussion with him. Quite a few of us wont be in the book of life so you wont be lonely in hell.
1993fox Posted 6 April 2015 Posted 6 April 2015 What are your thoughts on Bahai'ism? Cool religion imo shame the Persians got rid of it so quickly I have two Gods in my life; tequila and prostitutes, baby. Nice
Benguin Posted 6 April 2015 Posted 6 April 2015 Then your issue isn't with 'Christianity' but with one narrow interpretation of it held by a person you know and you'd be better served having a theological discussion with him. Quite a few of us wont be in the book of life so you wont be lonely in hell. If you think that the view of choice in Christianity is one narrow interpretation then I question your knowledge of Christian theology.
fleckneymike Posted 6 April 2015 Posted 6 April 2015 If you think that the view of choice in Christianity is one narrow interpretation then I question your knowledge of Christian theology. Is he a Catholic? If not he's ****ed.
Rincewind Posted 7 April 2015 Posted 7 April 2015 Eeny meeny is what I say Which god shall I pray to today It all depends on how I feel And which one gives me the better deal.
Benguin Posted 7 April 2015 Posted 7 April 2015 Why must I perish in a heated abyss? I tried to do good and I searched for your voice! Why can’t I inherit your eternal bliss? I deny that you gave me a clear cut choice. My lord you art thou omnibenevolent Yet you smite my friends with the plague and cancer How can your sacrifice remain relevant? When I stand with fear, begging for an answer? Like a serpent or demon I walk your earth And on these sins, with love, you grant relief But you knew my whole life long before my birth And made it with vexation and disbelief My logic it sees not through your opaque mask Has your nemesis Lucifer taken me? With the same conviction as your son I ask My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Babylon Posted 7 April 2015 Posted 7 April 2015 No, I just don't want to believe that there is nothing. Really good article about an Oxford Uni study about the very question "Is belief in God human nature." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8510711/Belief-in-God-is-part-of-human-nature-Oxford-study.html Is it human nature? Possibly to a degree at the moment because we've only really just entered the era of understanding with regards space and its vastness and how things work in the universe. Before this understanding and the following education we still thought we were the centre of everything, people worshipped the sun because it brought light and made crops grow and they didn't understand what it was. When you don't understand it makes it easier to believe in a higher power, and when that's gone on for 99.99999% of our existence it will take a while to shift. When you realise you're a grain of sand in the ocean, that there are a trillion suns just like the one we used to worship. I think your definition of what you think your "god" is will change over time. In another 1000 years, the human nature of a belief in god will be replaced by something else. Perhaps something not quite so stupid.
Christoph Posted 7 April 2015 Posted 7 April 2015 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLhtZqdkjshgq8TqwIjMdCQ Strongly recommend people to have a watch of these videos. Some good arguments against Christianity. If you still believe in an organised religion in this day and age then I feel sorry for you. ch Christopher Hitchins has some really good books on religions that I would recommend people reading. I used to be quite a big believer in God but the more and more I think about it, the more and more I realise, it's my emotions wanting to believe in God in fear of death than anything else. The stories from the Bible are complete bollux but because their so old, people don't mind. A lot of people give Scientology shit for the crazy xenu story but lets be honest...Xenu throwing aliens into a volcano isn't anymore unbelievable than a man that was able to fit every animal onto a ****ing boat...
Benguin Posted 7 April 2015 Posted 7 April 2015 Is it human nature? Possibly to a degree at the moment because we've only really just entered the era of understanding with regards space and its vastness and how things work in the universe. Before this understanding and the following education we still thought we were the centre of everything, people worshipped the sun because it brought light and made crops grow and they didn't understand what it was. When you don't understand it makes it easier to believe in a higher power, and when that's gone on for 99.99999% of our existence it will take a while to shift. When you realise you're a grain of sand in the ocean, that there are a trillion suns just like the one we used to worship. I think your definition of what you think your "god" is will change over time. In another 1000 years, the human nature of a belief in god will be replaced by something else. Perhaps something not quite so stupid. For the record my belief is not in line with any religion. I simply do not believe that the world came from nothing. I have no idea what caused it, I do not believe it was a magic man in the sky. I just can't comprehend that I am here with all my thoughts and I am here from nothing. I will never try to understand it because it is not something we ever will understand. All I know is that the idea that the world came from nothing is just as silly to me as the idea that there is a God.
Babylon Posted 7 April 2015 Posted 7 April 2015 For the record my belief is not in line with any religion. I simply do not believe that the world came from nothing. I have no idea what caused it, I do not believe it was a magic man in the sky. I just can't comprehend that I am here with all my thoughts and I am here from nothing. I will never try to understand it because it is not something we ever will understand. All I know is that the idea that the world came from nothing is just as silly to me as the idea that there is a God. Yes sorry, I wasn't referring to your beliefs. I'd seen your other posts, more the point of it being human nature. I presume when you say world, you mean the universe?
Benguin Posted 7 April 2015 Posted 7 April 2015 Yes sorry, I wasn't referring to your beliefs. I'd seen your other posts, more the point of it being human nature. I presume when you say world, you mean the universe? Only Earth, the Moon and the Sun exist. The Universe is a lie. Yes, I meant the universe but sometimes my posts are primitive when I'm tired.
Rincewind Posted 7 April 2015 Posted 7 April 2015 Call the Big Bang God and it will please both sides.
Babylon Posted 7 April 2015 Posted 7 April 2015 Only Earth, the Moon and the Sun exist. The Universe is a lie. Yes, I meant the universe but sometimes my posts are primitive when I'm tired. Sorry I had to ask When religion is on the agenda you can't presume anything! ha.
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