Guest Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 Labour is not just about 1980s style socialism, and Jeremy Corbyn is not the only candidate espousing Labour values. I didn't say it was. But if he is voted in as leader and the party follow his values those "right wing labourites" should just vote elsewhere. Voting should be about your beliefs not the name on the tin. Blimey, FIF, I thought you were dead! 2 month ban - I think it was because a mod was in love with Cambiasso.
Guest Bilo Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 I didn't say it was. But if he is voted in as leader and the party follow his values those "right wing labourites" should just vote elsewhere. Voting should be about your beliefs not the name on the tin. 2 month ban - I think it was because a mod was in love with Cambiasso. I won't leave the party, and I won't vote elsewhere. The best way to effect change is from the inside after all. Should Dennis Skinner and Jeremy Corbyn himself have gone elsewhere when Blair took over?
Guest Bilo Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 It really is a sign of how divisive the election has been when I'm basically being told I have no place in my own party by people who probably aren't even members!
Buce Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 2 month ban - I think it was because a mod was in love with Cambiasso. I won't ask which one - you're probably on probation.
Sir Fynwy Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 I won't leave the party, and I won't vote elsewhere. The best way to effect change is from the inside after all. Should Dennis Skinner and Jeremy Corbyn himself have gone elsewhere when Blair took over? That is such a stupid post, you'd never consider leaving the party or voting elsewhere whatever changes happened to it? Organisations change for good and bad and you have to evaluate their aims against your own unless you are a dumb sheep.
Guest Bilo Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 That is such a stupid post, you'd never consider leaving the party or voting elsewhere whatever changes happened to it? Organisations change for good and bad and you have to evaluate their aims against your own unless you are a dumb sheep. It's quite clear what I was saying, that I won't leave the party if Corbyn is elected.
Sir Fynwy Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 It's quite clear what I was saying, that I won't leave the party if Corbyn is elected. And it's quite clear I was saying that you should consider the option that the party could change and move so far away from your personal values under any leader that you should always be open to change.
Guest Bilo Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 If that happens, I'll leave the party. Principles are important, obviously. I'm not just going to leave the party because the person I wanted as leader didn't win though, that'd be silly. If the winner of the contest starts taking the party down a road I dislike, I'll leave.
Stadt Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 Corbyn has got no chance of winning a general election with all of these Tories around Yep. Which begs the question - when everyone's a tory, what chance does Jeremy Corbyn stand? About 50% of his own party are Tories and pretty much all of his MPs according to his followers.
Guest Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 It really is a sign of how divisive the election has been when I'm basically being told I have no place in my own party by people who probably aren't even members! If that happens, I'll leave the party. Principles are important, obviously. I'm not just going to leave the party because the person I wanted as leader didn't win though, that'd be silly. If the winner of the contest starts taking the party down a road I dislike, I'll leave. Well I'm glad you re-thought what you said. If the labour party no longer represents your views you would be rather silly to vote for them over a party that better represents your views. Recently you've sounded much more of a Social Democrat to be honest.
Guest Bilo Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 Well I'm glad you re-thought what you said. If the labour party no longer represents your views you would be rather silly to vote for them over a party that better represents your views. Recently you've sounded much more of a Social Democrat to be honest. Not really, I support left-wing policies but realise that the nation has to be convinced. Centre-left policies are the best way to achieve that.
Claridge Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 How disappointing you've resorted to smears. Contrary to your rather arbitrary assumptions, if anything I've gone leftwards as I've got older. I've seen what the government is doing to education and vulnerable people in deprived communities first hand, I have an intimate knowledge of these things in my professional life. I want to see vocational education at 14-18 and post 18 to be improved, strengthened and properly funded. That's why I support the idea of not only tuition fees being replaced with a Graduate Tax, but also a UCAS style support network for people seeking apprenticeships after college or Sixth Form. This would help the young people I work with immeasurably, in a community where jobs are often seasonal, low skilled and poorly paid to achieve social mobility, even if they choose not to attend university. I think everyone wants to see the economy growing because that's how jobs are created, people are lifted out of poverty and how progressive policies are put in place. There's nothing wrong with a country generating wealth, so long as it is fairly distributed for the good of all instead of the elite few. I want to see the economy growing and put into housing, education, the NHS and public services such as public transport. If the economy isn't growing, you can't put the money in. I want to see social housing being built and help for young people to get on the property ladder to avoid the rent trap, I was fortunate that I had the opportunity to pay towards a deposit but many young and indeed older people never have that chance. It's not that they can't afford the mortgage, it's the deposit. So what's wrong with helping people out of the rent trap with low or even zero deposit mortgages? There's nothing Tory about my views, but in the zany, binary world of Corbynmania where you're either with the bearded one or a honorary member of the Bullingdon Club, all nuance is lost. A lot of money that is spent on education post 16 would be better channelled into providing worthwhile apprenticeships for non-academic students. Pay firms to train up the younger people instead of encouraging people to do degrees that often do not lead to a full-time job. The much derided YTS of the 1980s helped many youngsters gain employment when I left school. Apprenticeships run by colleges are a poor substitute for real ' on the job' training
Rincewind Posted 28 August 2015 Posted 28 August 2015 I agree they don't prove anything conclusively without further study. Just posted it because it is interesting, and it certainly suggests correlatbe cause of the magnitude of the change in numbers involved when other aspects of life have remained pretty steady. More research definitely needs to be done. They have not published the full information that was asked for because 'it would not be in the public's interest' The DWP will have watered the report down. You have to be naive not to realise this is why they took so long, launched appeal after appeal and used delaying tactics. The last appeal in May I think was submitted under a hour before the deadline. If they had nothing to hide why did they not publish the figures which they repeatedly said they did not hold but it was known that they did (they have just done it) they were told by high court judges that they must comply with the FOI act and there was no legitimate reason why they should not. Taking a neutral viewpoint and forgetting any bias in favour of the Tories does these actions by the DWP seem a little iffy? Question not aimed at you bmt. Like I said I saw it earlier but the report was still being analysed..
Guest MattP Posted 28 August 2015 Posted 28 August 2015 http://order-order.com/2015/08/28/burnhams-peerless-flip-flopping/#:oQWQjQ5qU_SMXA Burnham really doesn't help himself at times.....
Guest Bilo Posted 28 August 2015 Posted 28 August 2015 http://order-order.com/2015/08/28/burnhams-peerless-flip-flopping/#:oQWQjQ5qU_SMXA Burnham really doesn't help himself at times..... Disappointed with that, shows poor judgement.
Guest MattP Posted 28 August 2015 Posted 28 August 2015 Starting to think that like sportsman politicians should do stay off twitter. No one has ever created a positive headline with a tweet; just negative.
Guest Bilo Posted 28 August 2015 Posted 28 August 2015 Starting to think that like sportsman politicians should do stay off twitter. No one has ever created a positive headline with a tweet; just negative. I remember Diane Abbott taking that trend to an extreme! In fairness, as much of a test of judgement it is, Twitter can provide a decent means of communicating with constituents if managed well. a1.jpeg Disappointing, Buce. I thought you were above childish name calling - don't be like some of the other Corbynites, you're better than that.
Danno Posted 28 August 2015 Posted 28 August 2015 Disappointing, Buce. I thought you were above childish name calling - don't be like some of the other Corbynites, you're better than that. Yeah it's fine when Corbyn's supporters are being called anti-semites and misogynists and when you attack them saying they label anyone but Corbyn is a tory.
Guest Bilo Posted 28 August 2015 Posted 28 August 2015 Yeah it's fine when Corbyn's supporters are being called anti-semites and misogynists and when you attack them saying they label anyone but Corbyn is a tory. At what point has anyone on this thread called any of Corbyn's supporters an anti-semite or misogynist? In the real world, the vast majority of the abuse and smearing is coming from Corbyn supporters. That's a fact, I've seen it and have experienced it. Expressing facts, which are very easily proved, is not the same as an attack.
Buce Posted 28 August 2015 Posted 28 August 2015 Disappointing, Buce. I thought you were above childish name calling - don't be like some of the other Corbynites, you're better than that. The sense of humour by-pass went well, then. Seriously, Bilo, you need to lighten-up a bit.
Danno Posted 28 August 2015 Posted 28 August 2015 At what point has anyone on this thread called any of Corbyn's supporters an anti-semite or misogynist? In the real world, the vast majority of the abuse and smearing is coming from Corbyn supporters. That's a fact, I've seen it and have experienced it. Expressing facts, which are very easily proved, is not the same as an attack. So smears are only bad when they're against your precious Andy.
Guest Bilo Posted 28 August 2015 Posted 28 August 2015 So smears are only bad when they're against your precious Andy. Oh grow up, for the love of God! I know you don't have any counter arguments to easily proved facts, but surely you can do better than that?! The worst people have said about Corbyn himself is that he's unelectable and his politics are outdated. If you look at the abuse the other three have had to put up with, as well as their supporters, that's pretty mild.
Guest Bilo Posted 28 August 2015 Posted 28 August 2015 The sense of humour by-pass went well, then. Seriously, Bilo, you need to lighten-up a bit. The flip-flop thing is so tired, it ceased to be funny ages ago. If you want to take the piss out of his blatant guy liner, that'd be funnier!
Buce Posted 28 August 2015 Posted 28 August 2015 The flip-flop thing is so tired, it ceased to be funny ages ago. Hey, I never said I was a good comedian.
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