Guest Bilo Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 No but the growth has been hampered most in the years where the cuts have been at their sharpest, which were then relaxed in the 2 or 3 years leading up to the election. And by relaxed I mean no deeper cuts imposed. http://www.theguardian.com/business/ng-interactive/2015/apr/29/the-austerity-delusion. Scroll down to charts 2 and 3. I have read the list of economists, I have had the pleasure of attending talks by a few of them (Leeds Uni). However that letter is more to say austerity is a damaging influence to the economy and not a positive one, rather than a carte blanche acceptance of Corbyn's policies. There is a set precedent for QE to be used effectively alongside other measures, as I'm sure Labour's plan would be with Corbyn at the helm. If you don't like that list of economists http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/12/osborne-plan-has-no-basis-in-economicshas a different bunch of anti-austerity economists, with some of the same list but also some who are undeniably amongst the best economists of our time (Ha Joon Chang was named one of the 20 most important contemporary thinkers in the world). Furthermore, Krugman himself is a brilliant economist. So the statement that Corbyn's economic plan is backed by leading economists is disingenuous then?
Guest Bilo Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 I take it that none of you saying it is a stupid idea are women or have been raped? It was not Corbyns idea. He said he would have consultations with women's groups. The idea is not to force the women to be segregated but given a choice. In that context I see it as a sensible move. Before dismissing the idea as stupid or barmy I would first like to see how it would be implemented. Even Corbyn will not know as no consultations have taken place. Take a step back and think about it as a husband, BF or father of a female. I'm neither a woman nor a rape survivor, no. However, I do support the idea of feminism, and I therefore believe that the notion that women should modify their behaviour, in this case by separating themselves from men altogether in order to avoid such crimes, is insulting and an act of victim blaming. The pleas to emotion won't really work, I'd be deeply saddened and disturbed if any woman to whom I was close felt she had to enter a woman only carriage, because it's not 1885. There are so many better ways around this problem - better lighting and CCTV coverage at stations, CCTV with sound recording on trains, BTP presence on night trains and at stations, banning offenders from public transport and more staffing provided by train companies. None of these involve the regressive step of introducing gender defined travel, which you agreed earlier in the day was a 'daft' move.
Rincewind Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 I agree there are better ways. But they need funding and public money which have been reduced. I don't know if it will be a good idea, all I am saying is that Corbyn has listened to suggestions and not written the isea off out of hand something a lot of politicians would do. I give credit to him for that even if he is wrong.
Guest Bilo Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 I agree there are better ways. But they need funding and public money which have been reduced. I don't know if it will be a good idea, all I am saying is that Corbyn has listened to suggestions and not written the isea off out of hand something a lot of politicians would do. I give credit to him for that even if he is wrong. Which would be reversed under an anti-austerity government, so why take the regressive option? A lot of politicians would rubbish the idea, because it's a stupid idea. If we consulted the public on every single policy idea, we'd all be knackered in three days and the death penalty would have been restored. It's important to listen to the public, but it's equally important to have a filter that sifts out all the crap.
Rincewind Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 Which would be reversed under an anti-austerity government, so why take the regressive option? A lot of politicians would rubbish the idea, because it's a stupid idea. If we consulted the public on every single policy idea, we'd all be knackered in three days and the death penalty would have been restored. It's important to listen to the public, but it's equally important to have a filter that sifts out all the crap. True. The subject would not have risen if we did not have a pro-austerity government. I think it is only news because Corbyn said it in the run up to the leader election. He may get support from feminist groups but criticised by his opponents. He is a punch bag for Tories ATM.
Darkon84 Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 True. The subject would not have risen if we did not have a pro-austerity government. I think it is only news because Corbyn said it in the run up to the leader election. He may get support from feminist groups but criticised by his opponents. He is a punch bag for Tories ATM. No, it rightly got to be news because it's a ridiculous thing to be suggesting. If you think no papers would report it if Burnham or Kendall had said it, you might be kidding yourself. Stop using him as a way to use the Tories for a punchbag .
Buce Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 No, it rightly got to be news because it's a ridiculous thing to be suggesting. If you think no papers would report it if Burnham or Kendall had said it, you might be kidding yourself. Stop using him as a way to use the Tories for a punchbag . It was equally ridiculous when the Tory Transport Minister was considering it last year, but it didn't make any headlines then. Just another example of the manipulation of public opinion by the Tory press.
Guest Bilo Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 I don't care who suggests it, it's a stupid idea It did make the press last year when the Tories suggested it, but it wasn't in the midst of a very well-publicised and divisive election, hence the reason it didn't make the front pages.
bmt Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/27/known-number-of-deaths-while-claiming-incapacity-benefits-nears-100000/
Darkon84 Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 It was equally ridiculous when the Tory Transport Minister was considering it last year, but it didn't make any headlines then. Just another example of the manipulation of public opinion by the Tory press. So where di you see it then, if it wasn't reported on. Still a ridiculous idea either way. And it obviously hasn't happened. The thing here is, is that if Corbyn were actually to gain power, it's the sort of thing that you can imagine going through, rather than just something being said to appease a few people. EDIT: I realise I'm probably starting to sound just as bad as the 'Corbynites', by constantly nagging about him, which is something I DEFINITELY don't want to be.The last thing I want is to sound as bad as the people that keep shouting about fake Tories etc.
Rincewind Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 Yes its funnyhow that happens. There is normally something 'more important' going on when controversial bills are passed. Like a Royal Birth 30/40 pages or another celebrity misbehaving. Saw that earlier bmt.
bmt Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 So the statement that Corbyn's economic plan is backed by leading economists is disingenuous then? I wouldn't say disingenuous. It is clear on the letter that 'some' are not corbyn supporters, which means that some are. So there are some leading economists who back his proposals. But yes it could have been clearer.
bmt Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 So where di you see it then, if it wasn't reported on. Still a ridiculous idea either way. And it obviously hasn't happened. The thing here is, is that if Corbyn were actually to gain power, it's the sort of thing that you can imagine going through, rather than just something being said to appease a few people. EDIT: I realise I'm probably starting to sound just as bad as the 'Corbynites', by constantly nagging about him, which is something I DEFINITELY don't want to be.The last thing I want is to sound as bad as the people that keep shouting about fake Tories etc. He didn't even say he was going to do it! How can you legitimately say it's the sort of thing you can see being pushed through? All he said is he will speak about a major issue to the people that major issue impacts.
Guest Bilo Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/women-only-train-carriages-could-introduced-4349573 It was reported on at the time, just not to the same extent.
Darkon84 Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 He didn't even say he was going to do it! How can you legitimately say it's the sort of thing you can see being pushed through? All he said is he will speak about a major issue to the people that major issue impacts. Which is exactly why I said 'stick my head out'. Of course it's impossible to say for sure, it's a bit far fetched to see that far in to the future (so ok, perhaps a bit silly of me to say), but in my opinion, I would say it would stand the greatest chance of it going through under him. Either way, the point still stands, it's a ridiculous idea, so it should perhaps be laid to rest there.
Buce Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 He didn't even say he was going to do it! How can you legitimately say it's the sort of thing you can see being pushed through? All he said is he will speak about a major issue to the people that major issue impacts. You're wasting your breath, mate, when even Labour supporters are prepared to ignore Tory hypocricy as long as it suits their anti-Corbyn agenda: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/women-only-train-carriages-could-introduced-4349573 It was reported on at the time, just not to the same extent. Disappointing, Bilo.
Voll Blau Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 Every photo of the candidates looks like the staff room of a failing comprehensive feigning amusement at being photobombed by the janitor. Good assessment from Frankie Boyle... http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/27/how-will-labour-top-losing-the-election-by-losing-its-own-leadership-contest
Rincewind Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 Good assessment from Frankie Boyle... http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/27/how-will-labour-top-losing-the-election-by-losing-its-own-leadership-contest His last paragraph says it all for me.
Voll Blau Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 Live Mirror hustings. Disappointing to see Burnham back FPTP. Labour really need to realise they won't win again under this system. His idea about a regional House of Lords is interesting though. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mirror-labour-leadership-hustings-live-6330229
Guest Bilo Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 You're wasting your breath, mate, when even Labour supporters are prepared to ignore Tory hypocricy as long as it suits their anti-Corbyn agenda: Disappointing, Bilo. I think the hypocrisy is coming from people who claim to be all about equality and feminism, yet are so entrenched in their pro Corbyn dogma, they're happy to entertain the idea of a policy so regressive it's currently limited to Japan and a whole host of countries with appalling womens' rights records. Again, I know Corbyn hasn't actually proposed this policy but he's thinking about it seriously enough to publicly entertain the idea when, frankly, no progressive should touch it with a bargepole.
Guest Bilo Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 Live Mirror hustings. Disappointing to see Burnham back FPTP. Labour really need to realise they won't win again under this system. His idea about a regional House of Lords is interesting though. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mirror-labour-leadership-hustings-live-6330229 I'd rather see PR as well to be honest. I'm no fan of UKIP, but their share of the vote warrants more than one seat. This is especially true when you consider the SNP gained 58 seats with less votes.
Sir Fynwy Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 I think the hypocrisy is coming from people who claim to be all about equality and feminism, yet are so entrenched in their pro Corbyn dogma, they're happy to entertain the idea of a policy so regressive it's currently limited to Japan and a whole host of countries with appalling womens' rights records. Again, I know Corbyn hasn't actually proposed this policy but he's thinking about it seriously enough to publicly entertain the idea when, frankly, no progressive should touch it with a bargepole. It's an invitation for discussion not a policy, stop getting hysterical about it.
Guest Bilo Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 It's an invitation for discussion not a policy, stop getting hysterical about it. You're confusing 'getting hysterical' with 'expressing a sincerely held opinion.'
Sir Fynwy Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 You're confusing 'getting hysterical' with 'expressing a sincerely held opinion.' No I'm not, I guess that your feminism is a new found trait since it certainly wasn't evident a few years ago
davieG Posted 27 August 2015 Posted 27 August 2015 Well it's certainly brought the problem to the public attention which i doubt would have happened for any of the other possible solutions, so that's a plus.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.