Next Leader of the Opposition

[Guest Bilo]

No I'm not, I guess that your feminism is a new found trait since it certainly wasn't evident a few years ago

The key phrase being 'a few years ago.' People grow up, change and evolve. I'm a homeowner and professional in my early 30s now, not a wet-behind-the-ears lad in my early 20s.

I make no apologies whatsoever for calling this idea for what it is.

[Guest Bilo]

Well it's certainly brought the problem to the public attention which i doubt would have happened for any of the other possible solutions, so that's a plus.

Definitely a plus. Nobody should be made to feel uncomfortable because of someone feeling them up on the 23:54.

[Stadt]

this election became a who is the most left wing person competition, so Bilo, you're a tory now.

[Guest Bilo]

this election became a who is the most left wing person competition, so Bilo, you're a tory now.

Brilliant, I fvcking love Cognac.

[Webbo]

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/27/known-number-of-deaths-while-claiming-incapacity-benefits-nears-100000/

I'm struggling to see what this proves.It's showing an increase in the number of people who have died while claiming this benefit. If they are claiming the benefit then what has the govt done to them?

[Guest Bilo]

I'm struggling to see what this proves.It's showing an increase in the number of people who have died while claiming this benefit. If they are claiming the benefit then what has the govt done to them?

Sorry, Webbo.

There's no denying that the benefits cuts have adversely affected the lives of thousands of vulnerable people. There are cases of suicide directly attributed to the cuts, people losing their homes to the bedroom tax, disabled and elderly people forced into unsuitable jobs to make ends meet and any number of horror stories.

I don't see how anyone can deny IDS and his ideological cuts have been anything but damaging to the poor and vulnerable.

[Webbo]

Sorry, Webbo.

There's no denying that the benefits cuts have adversely affected the lives of thousands of vulnerable people. There are cases of suicide directly attributed to the cuts, people losing their homes to the bedroom tax, disabled and elderly people forced into unsuitable jobs to make ends meet and any number of horror stories.

I don't see how anyone can deny IDS and his ideological cuts have been anything but damaging to the poor and vulnerable.

Even the writer is admitted that the figures prove nothing, it's only implication.

The DWP has strenuously asserted that “any causal effect between benefits and mortality cannot be assumed from these statistics”.

It is correct to make this point.

 

If you look at this report http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27309446 people in Glasgow, where in 2007 1 in 5 adults were claiming some sort of sickness benefit, were more likely to die young. So you could equally argue that not trying to get people into work is the cause of unnecessary deaths.

[Guest Bilo]

Glasgow is one of the most impoverished cities in Western Europe. Poverty is what kills people, and making vulnerable people, who often can't work, poorer still isn't the cure.

[Webbo]

Glasgow is one of the most impoverished cities in Western Europe. Poverty is what kills people, and making vulnerable people, who often can't work, poorer still isn't the cure.

You really believe that 1 in 5 adults are genuinely incapable of working through illness or injury?  

[Guest Bilo]

You really believe that 1 in 5 adults are genuinely incapable of working through illness or injury?

 

I believe that poor, inner city areas will have more disabled people in them than middle class suburbs, yes. You'll also have higher instances of mental illnesses, learning difficulties and other impediments to work.

So in the poorest areas of our poorest cities? I wouldn't readily dismiss it.

[bmt]

Even the writer is admitted that the figures prove nothing, it's only implication.

If you look at this report http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27309446 people in Glasgow, where in 2007 1 in 5 adults were claiming some sort of sickness benefit, were more likely to die young. So you could equally argue that not trying to get people into work is the cause of unnecessary deaths.

I agree they don't prove anything conclusively without further study. Just posted it because it is interesting, and it certainly suggests correlation because of the magnitude of the change in numbers involved when other aspects of life have remained pretty steady.

More research definitely needs to be done.

[Webbo]

I believe that poor, inner city areas will have more disabled people in them than

middle class suburbs, yes. You'll also have higher instances of mental illnesses, learning difficulties and other

impediments to work.

So in the poorest areas of our poorest cities? I wouldn't readily dismiss it.

Well if you keep people on benefits then they'll stay poor.

[Guest Bilo]

Well if you keep people on benefits then they'll stay poor.

They will, and it is important to get people back to work. You don't do this by taking away what little income they have and throwing the nearest zero hours contract at them, though.

You offer support to build their employability and self-esteem, then ease them back into work. Equally, we have to accept the possibility that some may never be able to work. They shouldn't be penalised for that, but supported.

[Webbo]

They will, and it is important to get people back to work. You don't do this by taking away what little income they have and throwing the nearest zero hours contract at them, though.

You offer support to build their employability and self-esteem, then ease them back into work. Equally, we have to accept the possibility that some may never be able to work. They shouldn't be penalised for that, but supported.

They do get that support but if they still refuse to help themselves then they have to be coerced and seeing as we can't point a gun at their head a  financial penalty is all you can do.

[Guest Bilo]

They do get that support but if they still refuse to help themselves then they have to be coerced and seeing as we can't point a gun at their head a financial penalty is all you can do.

Support for some of the described ailments, particularly mental health, is severely lacking.

[Webbo]

Support for some of the described ailments, particularly mental health, is severely lacking.

Well that's a different argument and nothing to do with the DWP.

[Buce]

You're confusing 'getting hysterical' with 'expressing a sincerely held opinion.'

Thanks, Bilo, you've removed all doubts from my mind - I intend remaining true to my 'sincerely held beliefs'.

Burnhan et al are not the solution, they are part of the problem.

It's Corbyn for me.

[enmac]

Papers represent their readers,which tells you about the amount of left wing people in this country.Public sector (guardian) and lay abouts (mirror).Most people over the age of 30 who work in the real world don't vote for left wing parties.

Labour always messes up the economy the tories have sex scandals or dodgy dealings.

Papers represent their readers! Wrong! In the 1930s, the Daily Mail supported the Nazis.

Its owner, Lord Rothemere, even paid a visit to Hitler.

Are you saying that the majority of Mail readers supported Hitler?

Thinking about it, maybe you're right.

Seriously, though, papers represent their advertisers, who are normally big corporations-Follow the money.

From what you've written, I doubt that you have any clue about what the "real world" is.

[Webbo]

Papers represent their readers! Wrong! In the 1930s, the Daily Mail supported the Nazis.

Its owner, Lord Rothemere, even paid a visit to Hitler.

Are you saying that the majority of Mail readers supported Hitler?

Thinking about it, maybe you're right.

Seriously, though, papers represent their advertisers, who are normally big corporations-Follow the money.

From what you've written, I doubt that you have any clue about what the "real world" is.

The Mail supported Mosely's blackshirts for about 3 months, so did the Mirror.

[Guest Bilo]

Are you saying entertaining this silly idea has helped you to decide that Corbyb is the answer?

Or that my expressing my belief that it's a silly idea has tipped the balance?

[Jon the Hat]

The independent had a good article yesterday about how much Corbyn will blatantly hate being party leader, as it is everything he has never done in politics - actually taking responsibility for something, rather than being a protestor against things.

[Guest Bilo]

The independent had a good article yesterday about how much Corbyn will blatantly hate being party leader, as it is everything he has never done in politics - actually taking responsibility for something, rather than being a protestor against things.

I read it, was impressed.

I then went on the Labour Party Forum on Facebook to see the reaction to it, and the consensus was that the Indy was nothing but Tory propaganda - just like The Guardian.

You literally couldn't make it up.

In fairness though, if he does win, he'll only have to put up with the gig for a few months.

[Buce]

Are you saying entertaining this silly idea has helped you to decide that Corbyb is the answer?

Or that my expressing my belief that it's a silly idea has tipped the balance?

Neither.

You've reminded me of the importance of being true to oneself.

[Benji]

Neither.

You've reminded me of the importance of being true to oneself.

Shy Tory?

[Stadt]

Corbyn has got no chance of winning a general election with all of these Tories around