Next Leader of the Opposition

[Guest]

Actually, he only got 49% from full members.

 

The 87% he got from the £3ers made a huge difference. 

 

I've said before that I agree with what a great deal of what he says, but I'm not the kind of person he has to convince. It'll be very interesting to see how many of the £3ers who've made a huge difference to the result actually join the party and do anything for it.

 

Bilo, I always had respect for your political stance but you are starting to sound pathetic.

 

He had 49% from full members in a 4 person vote.

 

Even if he had only 49% of the vote and Burnham had 51% doesn't that tell you something about the full members in the party?

 

Cooper and Burnham would not have convinced the public either. If anything they'd have turned them off further. 3 centre right parties is and was a disaster for politics.

[johnny the fox]

no doubt Rupert Murdoch's scrawny flaccid worn out appendage has been lifted up by block and tackle to jizz out out a spuff ball of bile in celebration......this will be the gift that keeps on giving for news international...

[Rincewind]

I'm not a member but I am tempted to join now. I don't see that what he believes in like equality as being 'leftie' or bad things.

[BlueSi13]

RIP Labour.  Who will be the biggest winners from this I wonder?  UKIP?  Liberal Democrat resurgence?   The country will not follow Labour left, this country is not, nor has ever been a left-wing nation.  

[BoyJones]

My family was always quietly staunch labour, I have flitted from party to party ever since Tony Blair got in. Clear to me from day one Blair was just a self serving individual only caring about number one and making a personal fortune. To me Labour lost its way 20 years ago and has never really recovered. It's now made up of pseudo Tories or pseudo Marxists.

However, even my Mum, 87 years old, is now worried that Labour has lost its way by this appointment. She doesn't expect to see a labour government in whats left of her limited lifetime, particularly as JC seems to deliberately ignore core labour beliefs. Now it's all about favouring any minority over the general public, alienating the hard working person in the street, who is happy to pay taxes etc, but so long as everybody is treated as equally as possible in other areas. For instance ignorance of the law used to be no defence, but now anybody coming into the country can say they didn't realise say GBH was against our laws and be given just a slap on the wrist.

Promoting outsiders beliefs and being on various committees is all very well, but what about the ordinary people - we seem to have been off the agenda for years.

[Guest]

I'm not a member but I am tempted to join now. I don't see that what he believes in like equality as being 'leftie' or bad things.

 

As you saw in the migrant thread left is a synonym of caring and is ridiculed.

[Guest Bilo]

Good. Go join the tories!

 

Having different opinions put out there is important for politics. I don't think the Labour party will win the next election, I don't think it would've with the other candidates either but what it will do is get the Tories and liberals to speak about areas of politics that they wouldn't have had to otherwise. It gives the poor and needy a point to rally around and hope and the will to vote.

 

Corbyn is great for politics and political discussion in the UK.

 

I also think the Tories and the media are totally wrong in the idea that labour are going far left, they will move a little left and will talk about subjects that will make the tories and liberals make a stance.

 

I'm chuffed for Britain.

 

Let's hope the other parties can now sort themselves out and make politics interesting and worthwhile.

 

Liberals need to make their stance clear next.

 

Tories and their supporters are all mouth, they won't feel as good as they think. 

 

Unless you disagree with Corbyn, of course.

 

Your point regarding a slight leftwards move though is a good one however. I feel that we've been too weak in opposition and didn't properly defend the decision to abstain from the Welfare Bill vote and were too fragmented in our support of Syrian refugees, with Cooper leading the Labour response. If we can expose the Tories' views on issues like Trade Unions, Welfare and migration, then we can at least start the fight back.

 

However, my issue is that moving 'a little left' won't be enough for many Corbynites. There's been a perception that we've been a Red Tory party for two decades according to a lot of the nonsense spouted by some, so that would suggest a desire to move considerably further left. It's a tough situation for Corbyn to be in, because a shift too far left would bomb with the general public while pleasing the Corbynites, while a slight shift leftwards would engage some of the public but be considered insufficient by the Corbynites.

[Guest MattP]

The big winners will be UKIP and the Liberals. Corbyn will drive tons of Northern voters to UKIP and the Liberals should pick up a lot of the moderate Labour voters.

The Tories will win 2020 but they shouldn't see this as any sort of victory, long term they NEED a strong Labour party as much as anyone, so many people vote Conservative not because they are them but because they fear a Labour government again - if that fear leaves the electorate they could also lose a hell of a lot of votes.

[BlueSi13]

I'm not a member but I am tempted to join now. I don't see that what he believes in like equality as being 'leftie' or bad things.

What about equality for the Falkland Islanders who he's keen to surrender to Argentinian imperialists against the very wishes of the islanders themselves after their referendum last year?

 

I also see Tom Watson has been elected deputy leader, the same Tom Watson that supports sex-segragation.

 

What about having a racist like Dianne Abbott on the shadow cabinet?  It's going to be a bloodbath pal.

[Guest]

I think the fact that tory/media have allowed the unions to get to the state where the forthcoming Union review could see unions become irrelevant in the UK shows why Labour needs to move a little left and get discussion going.

 

Discussion is what is lacking in UK politics, populism is winning and politics is being led by the media not by the parties.

 

It's a catastrophe what has happened to trade unions in the UK. Yes they need to modernise but not to lose power. Unions came around because of the dire need for them, they were a revolution and they are still needed, hopefully the labour party can air some of the reasons that the tories shouldn't be allowed to move them to the scrapheap alongside the miners.

[Frank to be]

Imagine standing on a stage having just been elected deputy leader and saying "ask anyone who knows me and they'll tell you I'm not known for being prepared"

Refreshing isn't it? So great to see politicians behave like actual human beings for a change.

[Guest Bilo]

Bilo, I always had respect for your political stance but you are starting to sound pathetic.

 

He had 49% from full members in a 4 person vote.

 

Even if he had only 49% of the vote and Burnham had 51% doesn't that tell you something about the full members in the party?

 

Cooper and Burnham would not have convinced the public either. If anything they'd have turned them off further. 3 centre right parties is and was a disaster for politics.

 

It tells me that 51% of full members have yet to be convinced. It's a clear mandate, of course it is, but not quite as clear as it first appears.It's clear that there is a desire for us to be a left-wing party with left-wing ideals, and I've expressed my support for many of the ideals such as renationalisation of the railways, halting privatisation within the NHS, building more social housing, fighting the crueler elements of the Welfare Bill and tackling poverty. 

 

Let's not forget that the Registered and Affilated Supporters, who turned it from a clear victory into an absolute landslide, now have nothing to do with the party unless they actually sign up as full members. 

 

Some of the rhetoric that's come from the Corbynites, suggesting that you are Red Tory/Blue Labour if you don't vote Corbyn, now looks incredibly divisive and insulting to those 51% of full members who voted for other candidates. It really has been that absolutist.

 

If the divisiveness calms down at this point, then great. It needs to though, or the party will be in danger of a massive split. 

[Guest]

What about equality for the Falkland Islanders who he's keen to surrender to Argentinian imperialists against the very wishes of the islanders themselves after their referendum last year?

 

I also see Tom Watson has been elected deputy leader, the same Tom Watson that supports sex-segragation.

 

What about having a racist like Dianne Abbott on the shadow cabinet?  It's going to be a bloodbath pal.

 

then you should be happy about it. Or are you frightened by the phoenix which will rise from the ashes?

[Guest Bilo]

Watson sold himself a little short there, I feel.

 

His record shows he's a very good politician indeed.

 

Pleased to say I voted for him and I know he'll be a good Deputy.

[Rincewind]

Are they actually going to the left though? Or just moving back to where they were before reverting back to the original  values and principles of the Labour Party.

[Guest Bilo]

One thing's certain though, the Greens are a massive loser from this result - 1 million votes in May.

 

Whether that will be anything like enough to keep our heads above water remains to be seen, mind.

[BlueSi13]

then you should be happy about it. Or are you frightened by the phoenix which will rise from the ashes?

 

As I've said before, I used to be an active Labour supporter and I am saddened to see the state she lies in now.  

 

As others have mentioned, the Conservatives need a strong opposition, this won't be it.  Interesting points in the press regarding the silence from the Conservatives so far, it would appear they are planning on taking their time, wait until he is intrenched in a long civil-war with his own party and go after him with all guns blazing.  Not just to destroy Corbyn, but smear the Labour party forever.

[Guest]

It tells me that 51% of full members have yet to be convinced. It's a clear mandate, of course it is, but not quite as clear as it first appears.It's clear that there is a desire for us to be a left-wing party with left-wing ideals, and I've expressed my support for many of the ideals such as renationalisation of the railways, halting privatisation within the NHS, building more social housing, fighting the crueler elements of the Welfare Bill and tackling poverty. 

 

Let's not forget that the Registered and Affilated Supporters, who turned it from a clear victory into an absolute landslide, now have nothing to do with the party unless they actually sign up as full members. 

 

Some of the rhetoric that's come from the Corbynites, suggesting that you are Red Tory/Blue Labour if you don't vote Corbyn, now looks incredibly divisive and insulting to those 51% of full members who voted for other candidates. It really has been that absolutist.

 

If the divisiveness calms down at this point, then great. It needs to though, or the party will be in danger of a massive split. 

 

49% in a first round is amazing.

 

What % did Burnham get 19% - 81% didn't want him. Is that less divisive.

 

I think you've talked yourself into a more and more extreme position and you need to look again with a clear head. You may even end up liking this new stage in the labour party. Get talking to those young people who are now looking at what the labour party means. Inspired by a guy with principles.

 

I'm saddest to see that the populist sour twoface managed to get as much as 18% of the vote. That would worry me much more.

[Harry - LCFC]

One thing's certain though, the Greens are a massive loser from this result - 1 million votes in May.

 

Whether that will be anything like enough to keep our heads above water remains to be seen, mind.

 

Caroline Lucas seems jolly pleased about it all. She's spoken about him about as if he were a member of her own party. But yeah they're done for the next election now that the radicals have a chance of getting their beliefs represented.

[Guest Bilo]

49% in a first round is amazing.

 

What % did Burnham get 19% - 81% didn't want him. Is that less divisive.

 

I think you've talked yourself into a more and more extreme position and you need to look again with a clear head. You may even end up liking this new stage in the labour party. Get talking to those young people who are now looking at what the labour party means. Inspired by a guy with principles.

 

I'm saddest to see that the populist sour twoface managed to get as much as 18% of the vote. That would worry me much more.

 

That's unfair on Cooper - she's clearly a sincere and decent politician.

 

I will support the party, of course I will, and I'm not suggesting that Burnham had a mandate. I personally felt he had some very good ideas, but he clearly failed to inspire all levels of party supporters and members despite speaking from a fairly left-wing perspective - perhaps the charges of his flip-flopping stuck. Regardless, he clearly failed to inspire that he would make a good leader and it's probably time he accepted he's never going to be leader. 

 

It's fairly clear that Corbyn is the legitimate leader and I've not for a second suggested he isn't, but he now has to convince the 51% who voted for other candidates while trying to convince the general public at the same time. The influence of the £3ers, who as I've already said no longer have anything to do with the party, shouldn't be underestimated here. 

 

I sincerely hope I'm wrong and end up eating humble pie in 2020, because I don't disagree with a lot of what he says. The issue is, as I've already said, the Labour Party had my vote in May and they'll have it in the future. The Labour Party don't have to convince me, it's the general public and floating voters. 

[Rincewind]

Refreshing isn't it? So great to see politicians behave like actual human beings for a change.

I like the fact that he does not have pre-prepared  speeches written by spin doctors. Shows he is speaking honestly unlike how some of  the career MP's. appear.

[Guest Bilo]

Caroline Lucas seems jolly pleased about it all. She's spoken about him about as if he were a member of her own party. But yeah they're done for the next election now that the radicals have a chance of getting their beliefs represented.

 

I can see there being some kind of alliance - Green encouraging left-wing voters to vote Labour in marginals etc.

[Rincewind]

I know people who joined the Greens because of the direction Labour was going. They may well return. 

 

I was also thinking he needed to win in the first round. I would say people would put him first or last not second. So if there was a second round the others would gain from it. people were undecided by the other three but even combined would not have been close enough.

[Guest Bilo]

I know people who joined the Greens because of the direction Labour was going. They may well return. 

 

I was also thinking he needed to win in the first round. I would say people would put him first or last not second. So if there was a second round the others would gain from it. people were undecided by the other three but even combined would not have been close enough.

 

Yeah, without the £3ers it would have been more like the Deputy result.

 

Corbyn winning each round comfortably, but relying on at least one candidate bowing out.

[Guest Bilo]

 

Fair play to him!