Next Leader of the Opposition

[Danno]

Yeah. Doesn't come across as genuine. Nor does Burnham for that matter.

They'd do anything for a few votes. At least Kendall and Corbyn actually have conviction.

[Rincewind]

Strange how perceptions differ. I saw a part of the debate with Corbyn and Cooper. The headline was Cooper trounced Corbyn. From what I saw Corbyn was very calm and answered quiely without raising his voice. Cooper seemed to rant and repeated the same question more than once despite Corbyn giving a reasonable response.

But then again many did not see it in that way and maybe the headline was what they were hoping for. I was expecting the opposite with Corbyn losing his cool or giving incoherent responses. If I had of seen that I would have agreed that he had been trounced.

[Sir Fynwy]

Strange how perceptions differ. I saw a part of the debate with Corbyn and Cooper. The headline was Cooper trounced Corbyn. From what I saw Corbyn was very calm and answered quiely without raising his voice. Cooper seemed to rant and repeated the same question more than once despite Corbyn giving a reasonable response.

But then again many did not see it in that way and maybe the headline was what they were hoping for. I was expecting the opposite with Corbyn losing his cool or giving incoherent responses. If I had of seen that I would have agreed that he had been trounced.

Corbyn got over 80% approval in the audience vote, it's not exactly fair to say that Cooper savaged him because she failed to get her view accepted by the audience.  Some of the electorate seem to have accepted the PMQ style of shouting at each other and scoring cheap points as a way to win debates.

[Rincewind]

I was reluctant to post it before because the majority of posts on here say he was 'savaged' parotting the headline so I accepted it as correct.

[Guest MattP]

Let's be honest Corbyn would have"won" the debate with the audience if he'd done nothing but take a shit on stage.

[Frank to be]

Let's be honest Corbyn would have"won" the debate with the audience if he'd done nothing but take a shit on stage.

Of course, that would have been brilliant. "This is what I think of your staged debates and meaningless soundbites", and then he just storms off. That would have won him the next election already.

[Guest Bilo]

Let's be honest Corbyn would have"won" the debate with the audience if he'd done nothing but take a shit on stage.

 

Getting screams of approval like at a 1D concert for not reading The Sun was the moment that any illusions as to the ridiculousness of the audience evaporated.

[Wymsey]

Not sure on Corbyn's idea of the UK needing more of 'quantitative easing'.

 

Inflation will run riot and hence people won't be able to save much.

[Guest MattP]

Rumours he's actually going to put Diane Abbott in his cabinet.

[Frank to be]

Not sure on Corbyn's idea of the UK needing more of 'quantitative easing'.

Inflation will run riot and hence people won't be able to save much.

People said that last time money was printed but it didn't happen. Inflation has actually reduced considerably. At least corbyn will put QE to use instead of just giving the money to banks for them to keep and spend on increasing bonuses and salaries for their staff who have done nothing to deserve it.

[Alf Bentley]

People said that last time money was printed but it didn't happen. Inflation has actually reduced considerably. At least corbyn will put QE to use instead of just giving the money to banks for them to keep and spend on increasing bonuses and salaries for their staff who have done nothing to deserve it.

 

 

Playing devil's advocate..... Part of the reason why QE hasn't caused inflation so far might be because the banks just grabbed the QE cash and stuck it in their balance sheets, instead of lending money productively to businesses. The sort of productive QE that Corbyn is talking about could be much better for the economy in terms of investment, growth, employment and living standards, but if done to excess could cause inflation, as any large increase in spending power could. Would just have to make sure not to do it to excess, otherwise seems a good idea.

 

 

Meanwhile, here's an interesting graph for those claiming 1983 as proof that left-wing policies automatically bring defeat: http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-1979-1983

The graph shows how Labour under Michael Foot was ahead in the polls for a long time. The polls only even got close once the SDP split from Labour and had a surge - and the Tories only got ahead in response to the Falklands War.

 

I'm not saying that Labour under Foot was on course to win the 1983 election with its left-wing manifesto ("longest suicide note in history" - Kaufmann). But that polling graph makes it clear that it was the SDP "breaking the mould of politics" (yeah!) and then the Falklands conflict that sank Labour in 1983 and handed a landslide to Thatcher, not Foot or left-wing policies.

We'll never know what the 1983 result might have been if the SDP hadn't broken away and Galtieri hadn't invaded the Falklands. My guess is that the Tories would still have scraped home, but they certainly wouldn't have got a landslide and might not even have won at all, if you look at the figures in that graph.

[Guest]

Let's be honest Corbyn would have"won" the debate with the audience if he'd done nothing but take a shit on stage.

Then he must be an outstanding candidate for the PM.

[johnny the fox]

Then he must be an outstanding candidate for the PM.

I think the bloke has the biggest ego since Thatcher... he is just better at hiding it....god preserve us from "conviction" politicians.. 

[Guest]

I think the bloke has the biggest ego since Thatcher... he is just better at hiding it....god preserve us from "conviction" politicians.. 

 

Yeah, wouldn't want a politician to actually believe in what they were saying and doing.

[johnny the fox]

Yeah, wouldn't want a politician to actually believe in what they were saying and doing.

Hitler was a conviction politician...grown up politics is the art of the possible... 

[Guest]

Hitler was a conviction politician...grown up politics is the art of the possible... 

 

You do talk some absolute bollox.

 

Politics not based on belief and conviction is like a bicycle to a fish.

[johnny the fox]

You do talk some absolute bollox.

 

Politics not based on belief and conviction is like a bicycle to a fish.

making "rousing" speeches to the converted means fook all... Anybody who thinks this bloke will get even a fraction of his "beliefs" put into practice is deluded...read a few books about how government works..  Corbyn is a 65 yearold student radical....... as for me talking bollox.. . I wish i  was as fluent as you...

[Buce]

.... as for me talking bollox.. . I wish i was as fluent as you...

Well, put some work into your education, then you might be.

Or is it just easier to blame 'commies' and immigrants for your obvious failings?

[Webbo]

Playing devil's advocate..... Part of the reason why QE hasn't caused inflation so far might be because the banks just grabbed the QE cash and stuck it in their balance sheets, instead of lending money productively to businesses. The sort of productive QE that Corbyn is talking about could be much better for the economy in terms of investment, growth, employment and living standards, but if done to excess could cause inflation, as any large increase in spending power could. Would just have to make sure not to do it to excess, otherwise seems a good idea.

 

 

Meanwhile, here's an interesting graph for those claiming 1983 as proof that left-wing policies automatically bring defeat: http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-1979-1983

The graph shows how Labour under Michael Foot was ahead in the polls for a long time. The polls only even got close once the SDP split from Labour and had a surge - and the Tories only got ahead in response to the Falklands War.

 

I'm not saying that Labour under Foot was on course to win the 1983 election with its left-wing manifesto ("longest suicide note in history" - Kaufmann). But that polling graph makes it clear that it was the SDP "breaking the mould of politics" (yeah!) and then the Falklands conflict that sank Labour in 1983 and handed a landslide to Thatcher, not Foot or left-wing policies.

We'll never know what the 1983 result might have been if the SDP hadn't broken away and Galtieri hadn't invaded the Falklands. My guess is that the Tories would still have scraped home, but they certainly wouldn't have got a landslide and might not even have won at all, if you look at the figures in that graph.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Foot and his supporters were the reason why Labour split.

[Webbo]

Too much to post on here but some interesting polling data.

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/08/27/you-may-say-im-dreamer-inside-mindset-jeremy-corby/

[johnny the fox]

Well, put some work into your education, then you might be.

Or is it just easier to blame 'commies' and immigrants for your obvious failings?

ha ha.. my obvious failings?  pray tell what they are? I think i'm doing alright mate,  show me where I blamed "commies" or immigrant s for anything.. one thing is for sure, I can afford corbyn and a mass influx of immigrants, I hope you can..

[johnny the fox]

Too much to post on here but some interesting polling data.

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/08/27/you-may-say-im-dreamer-inside-mindset-jeremy-corby/

looks about as useful as the general election  opinion polls...

[Buce]

ha ha.. my obvious failings? pray tell what they are?.

debate on channel 4 now..all full of it...regarding refugees ..why don't each one of the candidates set an example to us all by agreeing to take a family in their own homes and pay for them? no they won't dream of it ..its all bull.. I got to be honest I don't care about the refugees.. if the shoe was on the other foot they wouldn't give a fook for us...we can't save the world ,never have, never will..

If you can say that with no sense of shame, then you need no help from me to identify your failings - they are laid bare for all to see.

[johnny the fox]

If you can say that with no sense of shame, then you need no help from me to identify your failings - they are laid bare for all to see.

There has been a civil war in yemen and 100's of thousands have died.. it ain't been filmed so you don't give a fook about it .. so spare me the holier than thou armchair  BS.. if  you have guilty conscience about the state of the world get off your ass and go out there and do something to help..i haven't got a guilty conscience about it.. and I'm in the majority,  you pompous prat..

[Alf Bentley]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Foot and his supporters were the reason why Labour split.

 

Labour split because there were left-centre divisions within the party and the SDP lot chose to leave rather than stay and fight their corner (as other centrists, like Healey, did).

 

Although Foot was to the left of Callaghan/Wilson, my recollection is that he wanted to maintain a "broad church" - unlike more uncompromising leftists like Tony Benn.

The SDP lot had already decided to go, though. Some of them even admitted to voting for Foot as leader to help him beat Healey in order to polarise the centre-left division and ease their task in building a new centrist party.

 

Like me, you're old enough to remember the mood of the times. There had been successive failures by 1970s Tory and Labour governments (Heath, Wilson & Callaghan), with economic/social chaos that had multiple causes. So, a lot of people were pissed off with both main parties, particularly after Thatcher came in and added mass unemployment to the "winter of discontent" chaos under Labour - very fertile ground for the SDP and it did look for a while like they might "break the mould of politics", as they promised.

 

So, that polling data that I posted is very interesting: even after the SDP had rocketed to 30%+ support, Labour under Foot were still top of the polls, ahead of the Tories and the SDP....it was only after the Falklands War that Thatcher surged ahead and on to victory in 1983....very interesting political history (to saddos like me  ). Even then, the Tory vote actually went DOWN in 1983, compared to 1979. Thatcher's 1983 landslide was mainly based on the Lab/SDP split and the Falklands War rather than either mass opposition to Foot or mass support for Thatcher. Thatcherism's real triumph was in 1987, when Labour was less chaotic and less left-wing (under Kinnock), and the SDP bubble had shrunk, if not burst.