Next Leader of the Opposition

[Webbo]

Again, another illogical comment. Just because the most read media is one station, that doesn't mean that millions of people don't get their news from other sources. In case you'd forgotten, The Sun is quite a popular newspaper. So is The Times too.

Why is it illogical? You're claiming that the right wing media, which is in fact around 5 national newspapers, that is read by a fraction of the people who read the BBC site and watch the BBC news is brainwashing the population. I don't know how anyone can claim it with a straight face.

It seems incomprehensible to the left that anyone can weigh up the evidence and decide that socialism is a bad idea. Believe me, it's not a hard conclusion to come to.

[leicsmac]

and so are the mirror and the Guardian .

Idiotic belief in the power of Murdoch is illogical. Sales of his papers have fallen massively in the last few years anyway.

 

The Sun outstrips sales of the Mirror and Guardian combined twofold by itself. And that's not counting the Express, Telegraph and Mail. I think we had a table up here not too long ago that said that newspapers with a rightwing slant featured as the top 5 and 8 of the top 10 best selling papers in the country.

 

There's many things you can go after regarding Corbyn, but underestimating the impact of the Murdoch media - both here and in other places in the world - is not one of them.

 

 

Why is it illogical? You're claiming that the right wing media, which is in fact around 5 national newspapers, that is read by a fraction of the people who read the BBC site and watch the BBC news is brainwashing the population. I don't know how anyone can claim it with a straight face.

It seems incomprehensible to the left that anyone can weigh up the evidence and decide that socialism is a bad idea. Believe me, it's not a hard conclusion to come to.

 

The Beeb is nowhere near as left-leaning as those newspaper media are rightwing. But I believe we've had this discussion before and came to the conclusion that either we agreed to disagree or agreed that the whole thing formed a tenuous balance in terms of news reporting in this country - I don't remember which.

 

In any case, Murdoch and his empire/family has learned well from William Randolph Hearst - "You provide the pictures, I'll provide the war."

[The Doctor]

Why is it illogical? You're claiming that the right wing media, which is in fact around 5 national newspapers, that is read by a fraction of the people who read the BBC site and watch the BBC news is brainwashing the population. I don't know how anyone can claim it with a straight face.

It seems incomprehensible to the left that anyone can weigh up the evidence and decide that socialism is a bad idea. Believe me, it's not a hard conclusion to come to.

 

What then is the evidence you're weighing up to come to the conclusion that people being properly rewarded for their work, and society still existing, is a bad thing?

[Guest MattP]

Anyone watch the Andrew Marr show this morning?

The three panelists doing the news review were Jane Moore, Pollution Toynbee and the editor of the Morning Star.

Not as biased as the Murdoch press though apparantly, I'd laugh if it wasn't so farcical.

[Webbo]

The Sun outstrips sales of the Mirror and Guardian combined twofold by itself. And that's not counting the Express, Telegraph and Mail. I think we had a table up here not too long ago that said that newspapers with a rightwing slant featured as the top 5 and 8 of the top 10 best selling papers in the country.

 

There's many things you can go after regarding Corbyn, but underestimating the impact of the Murdoch media - both here and in other places in the world - is not one of them.

 

 

 

The Beeb is nowhere near as left-leaning as those newspaper media are rightwing. But I believe we've had this discussion before and came to the conclusion that either we agreed to disagree or agreed that the whole thing formed a tenuous balance in terms of news reporting in this country - I don't remember which.

 

In any case, Murdoch and his empire/family has learned well from William Randolph Hearst - "You provide the pictures, I'll provide the war."

Does Murdoch force people to buy his papers? Could it be that less people buy the Guardian and Mirror because they don't like what they print?

 

What then is the evidence you're weighing up to come to the conclusion that people being properly rewarded for their work, and society still existing, is a bad thing?

Yeah right.

[Buce]

Winning the leadership race is the easy part - even this victory only equates to around 0.05% of the electorate after all.

Meanwhile, the polls make horrible reading and Corbyn has already cancelled his appearance with Andrew Marr.

I won't lie, I'm dreading Wednesday's PMQs.

I'm no mathematician, but I don't see how 250,000+ votes equates to 0.05% of the electorate.

You're a teacher, mate, so maybe you could explain?

[Guest Bilo]

Apparantly Corbyn isn't going to do PMQ'S? What on earth is that about?

 

He will, but he's sending emails round to members, £3ers and affiliated supporters to ask for suggested questions. He also wants to involve MPs in actually asking questions.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-is-going-to-completely-change-the-way-pmqs-works-10498068.html

[Guest MattP]

What on earth.

[Guest Bilo]

I'm no mathematician, but I don't see how 250,000+ votes equates to 0.05% of the electorate.

You're a teacher, mate, so maybe you could explain?

 

Sorry, meant 0.5%! One too many zeros. 

 

There are about 46.1 million people eligible to vote in the UK as a whole according to the ONS. 

 

The point still stands, mind. 

[leicsmac]

Does Murdoch force people to buy his papers? Could it be that less people buy the Guardian and Mirror because they don't like what they print?

 

Yeah right.

 

Not at all. I'm well aware that conservatism is the prevailing majority opinion within the UK in general and England in particular, which is borne out by the success of such media. The reinforcing effect that such media has is not to be underestimated, however. 

[wurmer]

I'm very happy for those Labour members who now feel that they've got their party back, and it's now going to move forwards the way they want it to, with a more socialist agenda.

 

However, they also need to realise that they've consigned themselves to being the opposition for many many years, as they've made the Labour Party - rightly or wrongly, unelectable in a fundamentally 'Centric' country. Trying to tell themselves that this is any different is pure delusion.

[Guest Bilo]

What on earth.

 

As long as he has a rota of Dan Jarvis and Stella Creasy taking it in turns, with Diane Abbott sat at the back with duct tape over her mouth, it'll work OK.

[Mark_w]

He will, but he's sending emails round to members, £3ers and affiliated supporters to ask for suggested questions.

 

I'm none of the above (as far as I'm aware) and I got an e-mail? 

[Buce]

Sorry, meant 0.5%! One too many zeros.

There are about 46.1 million people eligible to vote in the UK as a whole according to the ONS.

The point still stands, mind.

Granted, though devalued by a factor of ten.

What percentage of the electorate voted for Tony Blair as Labour leader?

[Guest Bilo]

I'm none of the above (as far as I'm aware) and I got an e-mail? 

 

Are you a member of a trade union? It might just be that you've expressed an interest in the party in the past and have been left on the mailing list.

[Guest MattP]

Rumours of Abbott being in the fold won't go away.

Aside from the fact shes an awful debater and politician, he can't seriously appoint a racist to the shadow cabinet in 2015 can he given the virtues he'll supposedly be putting forward?

[Guest Bilo]

Granted, though devalued by a factor of ten.

What percentage of the electorate voted for Tony Blair as Labour leader?

 

Around about the same, but the point is that Corbyn has only done the easy bit. The demographics of the Labour Party rank and file are very different from the general electorate, and Blair's election was an outward looking election after 15 years of Tory rule where the party had lurched from one disaster to another. Any talk of looking outside traditional Labour support and trying to convert Tory and UKIP voters has been rubbished in this election, which concerns me greatly.

[Mark_w]

Are you a member of a trade union? It might just be that you've expressed an interest in the party in the past and have been left on the mailing list.

 

Cheers. Not a member of a trade union, so I think I must have gone on the mailing list when I signed the fox hunting petition.

[Guest Bilo]

Rumours of Abbott being in the fold won't go away.

Aside from the fact shes an awful debater and politician, he can't seriously appoint a racist to the shadow cabinet in 2015 can he given the virtues he'll supposedly be putting forward?

 

I've spoken to at least one Corbynite councillor who feels exactly the same, she's perpetually one brain fart away from a PR car crash. If Corbyn has her anywhere near the front bench, it's one hell of an own goal.

[Guest]

Disagreeing with the party you primarily associate with on certain matters does not make you an independent, it makes you normal.

 

They can continue to promote Labour as Labour MPs.  But to sit there with a straight face on the cabinet having spent months telling the world a Corbyn-led Labour would ruin the party would show a complete lack of integrity.  These people clearly do not believe in Corbyn's politics and as such should not be considered nor should they consider sitting on the cabinet.

 

Maybe you are right I just happen to disagree. Above you are being extreme. They haven't even been offered a seat on the cabinet yet and yet they turn it down. That isn't helping the unity of their party. They are Labour party MPs not independants. New labour has failed and Labour needs to re-identify itself with the people. If they truly think that Corbyn will ruin the party they would have made this clear before the election and the Members decided that they wanted him and not them to lead the party. If they are unable to sit in a  labour party led by a democratically elected leader they should truly think of standing as independants or forming a new party.

[Claridge]

I've spoken to at least one Corbynite councillor who feels exactly the same, she's perpetually one brain fart away from a PR car crash. If Corbyn has her anywhere near the front bench, it's one hell of an own goal.

She ticks all the quota boxes that the left loves though.

Lets be honest,anyone with long term political ambitions is not going to sit in his cabinet are they

[Guest]

Apparantly Corbyn isn't going to do PMQ'S? What on earth is that about?

 

I think that's a great idea.

 

He should do some and let other "specialists" do others.

 

PMQ's is to question the PM - he needs to be there but not the oppostion leader. It'll be good to see PMQ's about real topics and not just the ridiculousness it has become over recent years.

Lefties ideas of democracy.

You are not allowed to have any view but theirs because only they know the answers

?

[Guest]

He will, but he's sending emails round to members, £3ers and affiliated supporters to ask for suggested questions. He also wants to involve MPs in actually asking questions.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-is-going-to-completely-change-the-way-pmqs-works-10498068.html

Another great idea.

 

Ask the PM questions that the people want answered.

[Guest]

Sorry, meant 0.5%! One too many zeros. 

 

There are about 46.1 million people eligible to vote in the UK as a whole according to the ONS. 

 

The point still stands, mind. 

 

But it's another straw man.

 

If he only got the people who didn't bother to vote to vote for labour he'd win. He doesn't even need to convert Webbo and Matt and Johnny the fox.

 

Of course he won't be that's not the question. 

 

I just hope he reinvigorates politics in the UK.

[Buce]

Around about the same, but the point is that Corbyn has only done the easy bit. The demographics of the Labour Party rank and file are very different from the general electorate, and Blair's election was an outward looking election after 15 years of Tory rule where the party had lurched from one disaster to another. Any talk of looking outside traditional Labour support and trying to convert Tory and UKIP voters has been rubbished in this election, which concerns me greatly.

You're prevaricating, Bilo; it was less, wasn't it?