Guest MarshallForEngland Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 just out of interest what is your profession? I'm guessing labour councillor I would rather not say precisely as it will become a point of discussion and enable more people to avoid addressing my actual points. I'll just say security and leave it at that.
Guest MarshallForEngland Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 It's official, he's a loon with no ability to comprehend dissenting views to his own (as if you needed me to confirm it). Ok mate. Any other actual arguments to accompany your silly comment?
Larry_LCFC Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 I just don't know why people cant grasp the incidents are so different. They aren't even remotely similar. Thailand - All expenses paid work related trip. Guests of our Thai owners, in Thailand. Three drunken lads, deliberately film and share a pornographic video taken with Thai prostitutes, whilst making extremely racist remarks and laughing about it. The complete humiliation and lack of respect is ridiculous. Their intentions are quite clear and cannot really be misunderstood. Why can people not see the difference between that and what Vardy did? People cant even agree on here if "Jap" is racist or not. He was foolish to use the term, especially in the way that he did because clearly people do find it offensive. He needs to be educated about it and that is what will happen. That said, to put him on the same scale as the rimmers, its ridiculous.
Babylon Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 I would agree that 'them' filming it as opposed to 'someone else' filming Vardy is hardly relevant. I've never listed that one. The fact that it was on a tour in Thailand and not somewhere else - well, couldn't you fairly argue that this is also double standards? It's fair enough to expect certain standards of your players that are in the public spotlight wherever they happen to be and under whichever circumstances. The fact that he isn't 'at work' is irrelevant, I work for a profession and I can be dismissed for that profession for the way I act outside of work - people often are. It's no different with footballers. It's not just the fact they were "at work" at the time is it, it's the owners homeland, in the owners hotel, on a good will tour and they decide to abuse them in more ways than one. They are the employees of our owners, surely you can see which event they are most likely to take offence from? There were calls for Singha and the other Thai companies to stop sponsoring us, so not only did they have huge personal embarrassment, there were immediate financial concerns to think about. Yes both misbehaved, both events will have been frowned upon. But you can't lump them together and treat them the same.
Guest MarshallForEngland Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 They aren't even remotely similar. this is bordering on the insane.
The Railway Man Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 I would suggest your colleagues have probably been sucked in by the sensationalised media, and not actually read up the facts. They have as much to go on as what we do, the video avaliable.
Larry_LCFC Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 this is bordering on the insane. It really isn't.
Guest bennytwohats Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 I've never listed that one. It's not just the fact they were "at work" at the time is it, it's the owners homeland, in the owners hotel, on a good will tour and they decide to abuse them in more ways than one. They are the employees of our owners, surely you can see which event they are most likely to take offence from? There were calls for Singha and the other Thai companies to stop sponsoring us, so not only did they have huge personal embarrassment, there were immediate financial concerns to think about. Yes both misbehaved, both events will have been frowned upon. But you can't lump them together and treat them the same. Quite - but is that not the very definition of double standards?
Guest MarshallForEngland Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 They have as much to go on as what we do, the video avaliable. No mate, clearly the unbiased independent observers with no affiliation with the club or the players have a less trustworthy and more unreliable opinion thay lifelong Leicester fans who have already nailed their colours to the mast with a previous incident at the club.
Larry_LCFC Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 No mate, clearly the unbiased independent observers with no affiliation with the club or the players have a less trustworthy and more unreliable opinion thay lifelong Leicester fans who have already nailed their colours to the mast with a previous incident at the club. You are just an embarrassment.
Guest MarshallForEngland Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 You are just an embarrassment. Iron-clad argument mate well done.
Carl the Llama Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 Ok mate. Any other actual arguments to accompany your silly comment? No mate. I just thought I was the right level of unhinged to be able to explain it to you where other, mentally stable members couldn't but you're too gone even for me. Sorry, I tried.
Babylon Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 Quite - but is that not the very definition of double standards? Is giving someone three points for going 80mph and banning someone else for going 120mph double standards... or is that the punishment fitting the crime? If the events were more similar I would agree, but there are just some massively glaring differences.
Guest MarshallForEngland Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 No mate. I just thought I was the right level of unhinged to be able to explain it to you where other, mentally stable members couldn't but you're too gone even for me. Sorry, I tried.Not hard enough apparently. This thread is a psychologist's wet dream. You've given up on making an actual argument ages ago and have done nothing but name-call and make silly comments. Here is my position in summary:1. Neither Vardy nor the 3 lads should have been sacked. Both deserved fines and final warnings. 2. The moral outrage on here was disproportionately vehement after Rim-gate. A lot of it was about finding the sex acts themselves a bit icky, and much of it was about the racial slur used. I found the whole thing quite pedestrian. Wrong, maybe, but pedestrian certainly. 3. People set the bar for moral outrage at a level they did not expect to have to meet again. When they did, they could either admit the real reason why it is different (we need Vardy), or make factual distinctions based on incidental characteristics. Most have done the latter, resulting in some cringe-worthy mental gymnastics and outright dishonesty.
Babylon Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 They have as much to go on as what we do, the video avaliable. But they don't do they, because most of them aren't even aware of the finer details like the fact it was Hopper who basically said everything on the tapes. The neutral observer has done nothing more than lump all three together and decided they were sacked for racism... when that's not the case as most of us know it. We've actually followed the case in detail and not just glanced at a back page.
Wymsey Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 Hope Vardy scores tomorrow and celebrates with Okazaki in particular in front of the cameras. Then the dust has bitten the book, and everyone moves on.
Babylon Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 Not hard enough apparently. This thread is a psychologist's wet dream. You've given up on making an actual argument ages ago and have done nothing but name-call and make silly comments. Here is my position in summary: Probably because making an rational argument with you is about as much use as arguing with a carrot. Not hard enough apparently. This thread is a psychologist's wet dream. You've given up on making an actual argument ages ago and have done nothing but name-call and make silly comments. Here is my position in summary: 1. Neither Vardy nor the 3 lads should have been sacked. Both deserved fines and final warnings. 2. The moral outrage on here was disproportionately vehement after Rim-gate. A lot of it was about finding the sex acts themselves a bit icky, and much of it was about the racial slur used. I found the whole thing quite pedestrian. Wrong, maybe, but pedestrian certainly. 3. People set the bar for moral outrage at a level they did not expect to have to meet again. When they did, they could either admit the real reason why it is different (we need Vardy), or make factual distinctions based on incidental characteristics. Most have done the latter, resulting in some cringe-worthy mental gymnastics and outright dishonesty. "make factual distinctions based on incidental characteristics" ie. People spelt out the massively obvious differences between the two cases. Hence the disparity in punishments.
BlueJoe Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 This post reminds of the scene in The Office (UK) where he tells the joke about the Royal family and because the black guy doesn't get offended he thinks its fine. I think this is a sensible and quick resolution Exactly this! Working on the this principle I have a Japanese friend who needs apologising too as well and isn't there a country with lots of Japanese people that needs apologising to as well? The whole racism issue in this country is getting stupid. Vardys comment were NOT racist, he is not racist and what he said was only said in anger. If he was shouting C#NT this wouldn't have got this far. Why is it ok to abuse someone by calling them a c#nt but not a 'Jap'! Maybe if all these groups stopped trying to get rid of racism out of the game but actually starting to get abuse and nasty behaviour kicked out and tried to bring respect in they would succeed!
Guest MarshallForEngland Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 But they don't do they, because most of them aren't even aware of the finer details like the fact it was Hopper who basically said everything on the tapes. The neutral observer has done nothing more than lump all three together and decided they were sacked for racism... when that's not the case as most of us know it. We've actually followed the case in detail and not just glanced at a back page. Amazing level of insight you have into the reading habits of the lad's work colleagues. The reason for the incredulity of non Leicester fans is that all the available information points to a double standard, not because they have been brainwashed by the nasty newspapers. If anything, it's Leicester fans who are likely to have the biased and one-sided view of this situation, not them. Will you be refraining from passing judgement on the goings on at any other club now I take it? Or are your research skills in that regard a bit more thorough than those who think you are guilty of a bit of cognitive dissonance?
EnglishOxide Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 It wasn't that bad though.... Why on earth are people willing to accept an apology that isn't sincere? I would rather Vardy say "I get mad sometimes" and Leicester say "Unlike the others... we like/need Vardy and in the grand scheme of things, it isn't that bad." Why must this be turned into a club of lies and false apologies?! Spot on. It would be a breath of fresh air if people came out and spoke honestly once in a while rather than submitting to a PR manager and giving in to scumbag journalism and faux outrage in this overly sensitive society. Apologising only encourages further bollocks nonsense like this. Nobody seriously believes Vardy has racist tendencies. He already did work for the Kick It Out campaign. He works everyday with a variety of different nationalities. His bosses are Thai. The actual evidence completely stacks up against the aggressive use of a word that The Sun itself does not deem racist.
Guest bennytwohats Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 Is giving someone three points for going 80mph and banning someone else for going 120mph double standards... or is that the punishment fitting the crime? If the events were more similar I would agree, but there are just some massively glaring differences. I think that analogy doesn't work as you have a quantifiable breach of the law. The racism issues are a lot more complex and intricate so can't be trivialised like that. It's disappointing the amount of people that refuse to acknowledge the similarities in the situations. I'm not saying if you think the punishment is fair then this applies. But the amount of times I've seen conjecture like 'Vardy isn't a racist' plucked out of thin air to try and justify a position is fairly astonishing. It's like venn diagram. But people have their opinions and have to try and narrow it down to black and white - it's either one circle or two circles that aren't touching.
Babylon Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 Amazing level of insight you have into the reading habits of the lad's work colleagues. The reason for the incredulity of non Leicester fans is that all the available information points to a double standard, not because they have been brainwashed by the nasty newspapers. If anything, it's Leicester fans who are likely to have the biased and one-sided view of this situation, not them. Will you be refraining from passing judgement on the goings on at any other club now I take it? Or are your research skills in that regard a bit more thorough than those who think you guilty of a bit of cognitive dissonance? I've not spoken to a single fan of another team who was aware that JP and AS were not sacked for racism, they weren't even aware it was only Hopper doing all the abusive chat on the video. That goes for real life, twitter, other forums. When the actual facts have been pointed out to them, funnily enough they can see the difference. Anyway... clearly you're a bit warped, so I'm leaving for the day.
Guest bennytwohats Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 Exactly this! Working on the this principle I have a Japanese friend who needs apologising too as well and isn't there a country with lots of Japanese people that needs apologising to as well? The whole racism issue in this country is getting stupid. Vardys comment were NOT racist, he is not racist and what he said was only said in anger. If he was shouting C#NT this wouldn't have got this far. Why is it ok to abuse someone by calling them a c#nt but not a 'Jap'! Maybe if all these groups stopped trying to get rid of racism out of the game but actually starting to get abuse and nasty behaviour kicked out and tried to bring respect in they would succeed! Case in point - what the hell are you basing that on? Only he knows that - I can't comprehend how anyone else would use that to try and backup a position?!
Bert Posted 14 August 2015 Posted 14 August 2015 I've not spoken to a single fan of another team who was aware that JP and AS were not sacked for racism, they weren't even aware it was only Hopper doing all the abusive chat on the video. That goes for real life, twitter, other forums. When the actual facts have been pointed out to them, funnily enough they can see the difference. Anyway... clearly you're a bit warped, so I'm leaving for the day. Apparently.... Hopper was set to be sacked with JP and AS set for their own hearings but instead the club sacked all three instead without any mention of these supposed seperate hearings and that was what infuriated Pearson.
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